Newbie problem - 5:25 stopped working.

[Moph]

Hey all!

Okay, so, I'm pretty new to the whole amplification side of electric guitar playing, so excuse me please if this sounds completely clueless. I bought this 5:25 Express amp a few weeks ago. It's bloody lovely, it's so good I just end up strumming the same few chords over and over for hours just to hear the tone from the amp, and never seem to get to actually doing my 'homework'. :lol:

The guy in the shop warned me about moving the amp for 20-30 minutes after turning it off to allow the tubes to cool down, so I've been very careful with this. He also said that generally the tubes won't need to be replaced for about a year. He said I'll know when it needs doing as they'll start to scream and sound 'off'.

A few days ago I moved the amp from the floor (after it being off for a day), up onto a table, and have used it fine a few times. Last night, I turned it off with standby, then the power etc., and went to bed. Turning it on now, and nothing, not even a little bit of screaming to indicate the tubes dying. A bit of white noise from the speaker, more audible when switched to 25 watt to test, I have only run the amp in the 5 watt setting so far, and pretty much always through the clean channel. Checked the back of the amp, and one of the tubes wasn't glowing orange as it usually does, so I'm assuming this is the problem despite having no audible warning from it.

Any ideas? Are the tubes even needed to get any output from the clean channel on the amp? Should I generally expect to have to put in fresh tubes after buying the amp from new in a music shop? I've sent them an email already explaining the problem - hopefully they will be able to offer a solution, but just wanted to check-in with you veterans here too for any advice.

It's a bit of a pain really, my Father's coming to visit me for the first time in about three years, and wanted him to have a play around with the new toy as he's into guitars as well.

Thanks.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Even tubes are covered under warranty for 90 days.

If you don't have spare fuses, and at least one spare EL-84 and one spare 12AX7, go buy those things and get back to us.

 

[Moph]

Will do! Thanks First tube amp, so am really unequipped I guess.

 

[nighthawk68]

I have a 5x25 too. Fortunately mesa boogie tubes are not too expensive if you need to buy some. Great amp btw, best one I have ever owned and I have owned many!

 

[MrMarkIII]

Will do! Thanks First tube amp, so am really unequipped I guess.

Hey, we all gotta start somewhere. Welcome to the club!
I'm sure I've seen videos on U-Tube on how to change tubes, etc., if that helps.

 

[Krek13]

if the tube is not glowing orange then there's a problem with the tube or with the tube socket...try this - turn the amp on, and turn off the lights in the room so that there is dark, if the tube is glowing BLUE in the dark then it's a bad tube so replacement is a must...if not, also replace the el84 tubes and check if the amp works...

 

[MrMarkIII]

Another opinion, from the Tube Store, an on-line tube seller:

"Blue Glow – We often get asked if blue glow inside of a vacuum tube is a sign of a defect. Thankfully, it is rarely a sign of a defect at all. In fact, many tubes have a blue glow, especially modern tubes. Photo 1 shows a tube with a healthy blue glow. This was also seen in tubes from the golden age of vacuum tube production."

There's lots more.
For the entire article, go here:
http://thetubestore.com/blueglow.html

 

[Moph]

Thanks for the advices guys I've ordered some new tubes as mentioned, hopefully those should be with me within a few days. It was one of the EL-84 tubes, these ones usually glow orange, one of them just doesn't glow at all, so I'm pretty convinced that's the problem one. Had a brief look on YouTube, didn't see a tube replacement vid, will have a deeper search later. From what I hear it's reasonably easy? It looks like it just plugs into the slot and that's it?

 

[Krek13]

Another opinion, from the Tube Store, an on-line tube seller:

"Blue Glow – We often get asked if blue glow inside of a vacuum tube is a sign of a defect. Thankfully, it is rarely a sign of a defect at all. In fact, many tubes have a blue glow, especially modern tubes. Photo 1 shows a tube with a healthy blue glow. This was also seen in tubes from the golden age of vacuum tube production."

There's lots more.
For the entire article, go here:
http://thetubestore.com/blueglow.html

that is not the blue glow I was talking about...in a dark room, if the tube completely glows blue (no sign of orange), it's a defect...

 

[MrMarkIII]

Oh, the other blue glow.
How silly of me.

 

[Moph]

No cause for concern, I checked and none of the sorts of blue in my visual vocabulary appeared with the lights off.

 

[Moph]

Replaced the EL-84 power tubes, both glow well now, however, no signal from the guitar is recognised, no click when you plug a lead in or anything, the input seems to be completely dead. There was a lot of static/interference coming from the speaker for some reason, not sure which part of the amp that came from. Moved it's location, interference seems to have stopped (think there are some sattelite dishes on the wall outside).

All 5 preamp tubes are glowing, and both the power tubes. Footswitch lights are on, and all on the control panel also. Can only think the problem is inside the head somewhere. Will contact the shop in the morning and see what can be done about it.

 

[Mullenski]

Plug your guitar straight into the effects return. If it works, you now know it's something on the preamp side. If it doesn't work, change out the power tubes. If it still doesn't work. Amp tech.

 

[twally]

No cause for concern, I checked and none of the sorts of blue in my visual vocabulary appeared with the lights off.

Checked you guitar cord?

 

[Moph]

Guitar cord is completely fine, works in my other amp, not even the click when you plug it in with the volume up on this amp.

Took the amp in to the shop this morning, didn't see this before hand about the send/return bit, sorry.

One more, perhaps silly, question... effects pedals on the feed from the guitar before the input surely are fine, right? Even if they have a volume knob? I mean.. it's not possible to feed too much signal into the input? Wouldn't it just sound distorted and nothing else, or can that actually cause some blow out input-wise? Not that I took it to silly levels though..

I have in the chain - Guitar > Boss Compression/sustain CS-3 > Digitech Bad Monkey > Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-5 > which I have used with both outputs, one to the Mesa, and one to a small solid state fender frontman amp (Plan was to play with the tones on the frontman and see if I could boost, or add a slight weird chorused tone to some frequenecies - think the 5:25 sounds better alone though ). Oh, and the volumes weren't past 12 o'clock (probably a lot less) on the CS-3, nor Bad Monkey, no volume on the chorus.


The guy in the shop (different to the one who sold me it) said I shouldn't even touch the power tubes let alone replace them as they need biasing by an engineer, and since I replaced the pair with the blown one, it's also messed with the pre-amp ones. I mentioned that I thought I read somewhere that the Mesa amps are already pre-biased in the factory so they don't need that, which perhaps wasn't the best thing to say, me being a newbie an' all - which is exactly what I am with this I guess, so I could be way way wrong, oops.

So, hopefully the amp will be back and working this time next week! Fingers crossed!

 

[darth_tar]

If you buy Mesa tubes you don't need to bias the tubes, Randall Smith has a lot to say about biasing Mesa's on various interviews. Seek out some of his statements on why Mesa's are fixed bias. Also, not biasing the power tubes has nothing to do witht the pre-amp tubes, that sounds like the kind of "information" you get at the Guitar Center! I do feel your pain, hate it whenone of my amps does stupid things. Be sure to eliminate the obvious, speaker cord, guitar input jack, etc. Best of luck to you.

 

[Moph]

Thanks for that, it gives me a lot of peace of mind. The only other thing I would be worried about is connecting the CE-5 Chorus with both outputs, one to a solid state Fender frontman amp, and the other to the input of the Mesa Boogie.. is it possible the Fender somehow affected the power of the input into the 5:25 which caused a problem? I should be able to pick it up from the shop in the next couple of days, although I think I may have to wait a bit longer as it seems they may have underestimated the problem and will have to send it elsewhere...

This wasn't the Guitar Center btw, pretty sure these aren't a chain.

 

[ddmeburger]

Okay, so, I'm pretty new to the whole amplification side of electric guitar playing, so excuse me please if this sounds completely clueless.....

The guy in the shop warned me about.....

A bit of white noise from the speaker, more audible when switched to 25 watt to test, I have only run the amp in the 5 watt setting so far, and pretty much always through the clean channel. Checked the back of the amp, and one of the tubes wasn't glowing orange as it usually does, so I'm assuming this is the problem despite having no audible warning from it.

Any ideas? Are the tubes even needed to get any output from the clean channel on the amp?.....

Hey Moph, welcome aboard, and nice amp! Here are some random musings.....

- You mention the 'shop'. Are you referring to the retail shop you bought it from, or the repair shop? Whenever possible, take repair shop advice over retail store advice.
- The power amp tubes are needed by all four modes in both channels. Different preamp tubes are needed depending on the mode.
- Neither the effects you are running in front of the amp, nor splitting your signal with your chorus to another amp, will be part of the problem.
- I think I saw somewhere in the thread yours was a head. If so, did you check the speaker cable?
- You mention doing some testing & playing in 5W and others in 25W. Don't know if you were aware of this or not, but in case you haven't seen any info on this relating to the Expresses..... When you turn your amp on in Standby mode, both power amp tubes will be juiced and glow a bit. When you flip it from Standby to On in 25W, both tubes will light up identically to an even brighter state. When you do this in 5W mode, only one of your EL84s will ramp up, and the other will still look like it is on Standby, which it sort of is. Since you replaced your tubes already and you see glowing on both tubes when you flip it on, I realize this isn't your problem.

 

[Moph]

Hey, thanks for the comprehensive reply!

It's a retail shop, I don't think there's a repair place around here as he mentioned it would need to go to Scotland.
The amp is the 5:25 Express 1x10 Combo, I think I mentioned 'head' at one point to distinguish the controls part from the speaker.. not sure if that was the correct term though for use with a combo. The speaker does plug into it separately, that was fine, static/interference was audible from the speaker when plugged in... but now you mention it.. it could've been a dodgy speaker and not the input at all?

I very briefly switched it to 25W when all I could hear was the interference and the volume increased, but that's all. I'll definitely keep an eye out to see what goes on with the tubes in either mode when I get it back.

Every retail shop I've been to over the years pretty much sell amps and guitars without packaging (unless there's a case with them), so they can have them out in the store for sound tests etc. Perhaps I was a bit naive with this purchase on this note, but there wasn't any manual or box or anything it came in.. is that usual for you guys too?


Thanks for the info also, much appreciated when getting stuck into the post-practise amp stage!

 

[Wolfboy1]

I think not getting a box is normal however not getting a manual is not. Mesa amps come with a real nice packet of info including a manual, a catalog, a sticker, an inspection tag and a warranty card. It's usually in a transparent plastic folder.