Vintage Guitarist needs "Modern Amp" help

[robstar]

In the 70's & 80's I played professionally; classic rock, progressive rock etc.. Now, 25 years and two ex-wives later I haven't touched my guitar in ten years. All I have left is a '69 Gold Top Deluxe and a mid-1940's Gibson acoustic; no amp.

The last three weeks I've been researching here, online and in a few local Las Vegas "mega stores". Modeling amps, hybrids, single, dual, triple rectifiers and two dozen knobs make for a tough decision and a whole lot of marketing BS it seems.

My working amps were a Sound City stack and Marshall 50w half stack plus a few pedals and tape delays back in the day; pretty simple stuff. My last amp was a Mesa .50 cal combo which was great but I had to sell it in the late-90's to pay the lawyers. My only complaint was the .50 cal was just too loud for home practice.

I'm thinking something like an F-30 or 5:25 combo, Mark I or IV maybe with a few pedals and maybe a Pod so I can use headphones. Possibly a THD Hotplate to drop the volume down on the combo a bit. It'll be a while to get my chops back before I'm out jamming or gigging again. I'm interested in sounds ranging from Santana to STP, Nickleback, Rush, SRV; quite a range.

Basically, I'm at a point in my life now where cost isn't so much of an object in that I'd rather have a really nice quality combo than a cheesy modeling amp (nothing against them). I'd like to keep it at $1k but maybe would go up to $1800'ish for the right combo amp. The 80-100 watt combos seem like they'd be way over-powered.

Sorry for such a long first post and thanks for taking time. Does this seem like a decent approach and budget to get such diverse tone? Questions, comments and suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Robert Starling, SOC
Las Vegas

 

[Elpelotero]

this is tough. I'm having a hard time thinking of a mesa that can cover all those styles well for under 1k and sound good at low volume. The express is my only guess.

 

[clutch71]

First off Welcome to the Board!

I'd say three things by Mesa...The Express 5:25 (not my cup of tea), Rectoverb (my fave "lower" watt Mesa), and Stiletto Ace (haven't tried one) all 50w or under. The Rectoverbs, IMO are the great undersold amps in Mesa's line.

I will say this about one other...and I've been walking on egg shells on this forum since I bought it, The Marshall JCM DSL 50 is a great amp. Playing 50w half stacks in the 70's / 80's this amp is going to be familiar to you right away. It covers the cleans from the SLP to the crunch of the JCM 800 (of course nothing is going to match these tones exaclty but it does a good job) to newer hi gain tones similar to a Rectifier. They don't hold their value like a Mesa so you can pick one up relatively cheap.

Research there speaker/cab selections. I think I avoided Marshalls for years was their selection of speaker. See this thread and I advise you to research the speaker that you select from Marshall.

See this thread
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?p=149392#149392

 

[schnarf]

The F-30 could be good for you. It sounds good at low volumes. I hear a lot of people talk trash about its gain channel, but you just have to keep the gain knob below or at 12:00, and be very exact with it to get the gain you want. Its clean channel is one of my favorites. The sound I get overdriving the clean channel by turning up its gain knob is awesome also. My other tip for the amp is to really turn the mids up high on the gain channel, and to keep the bass and treble near 12:00 and tweak from there.

 

[wicked1]

The Stiletto will cover all the artists you mention

 

[dodger916]

I'd recommend a Mark IV...it'll probably save you money in the long run! It seems you and I are of a similar "vintage". I love the IV for its articulate, in-your-face voice. There's plenty of gain on tap, although not of the Rectifier variety. I believe it can deliver the styles you mention, give or take a pedal.

The Mark IV Covers lots of ground, able to swap tubes, run in Class A/Simul-class, Tweed power, pentode/triode, pull switches, GEQ, etc..

And....it sounds amazing at very low volumes.

 

[RoadKinger483]

maybe a Roadster would be a good investment. It does have the 50 watt setting on all the channels and with the LS cleans on it to cover SRV and the Brit setting on channel 2 to cover Rush along with the recto gains on channel 3 and 4 it would be a pretty verstaile amp. Although youmay have to throw down a bit more cash than expected I think in the long run it would be a expense worth every penny.

 

[srf399]

I too played professionally in the 70's/80's and I too put my guitar away for a number of years while doing the domestic thing... and also the divorce thing. My first wife of 7 years never saw me play my guitar! I too sold my amps, cabinets, and effects. I did the rectoverb thing... and the MKIV thing for 2 years (the MKII was always my dream amp when I was playing and couldn't afford one). The MKIV is a great amp... but to me it was a very 2 dimensional flat sounding amp that lacked harmonic onvertones that the old Fenders and Marshalls had and that the newer Mesa possess in my opinion. The Mesa amps I gravitated to were the Express 25:5, Lonestar Classic, and the Stiletto. I ended up with the Stiletto Deuce Stg II cause I love the Marshall flavour it has. The F30 has a really nice "Boston/Tom Scholtz" lead sound IMO and the Express 25:5 is very similar. The Lonestar Classic is just a wonderful sounding amp that I would take over any vintage Fender in a heartbeat (I played a 1965 Deluxe Reverb and a 1969 Twin Reverb for years). It's a very 3 dimensional/wide spectrum sounding amp in the Fender tradition. The only thing it doesn't beat the Fender at is the Fender smell... I love the smell the vintage Fenders give off when you turn them on. LOL You older guys know what I mean!!! The Stiletto Stage II's have the depth and 3 dimensional quality sound that the Lonestar has except they do it with a Marshall EL34 flavor instead but every be as good as the Lonestar's Fender act. As far as playing at bedroom volume... every amp you've mentioned are better at higher volumes. You will save money if you buy the amp you'd play if you were going to go play live again tomorrow. The Express is a cool little unit and the 5 watts is appealing but my 2 cents worth is that you will do better to get something that will cut it live in any situation and you won't grow out of and end up trading in. If you're a Fender guy take the Lonestar Classic... if you're a Marshall guy take the Stiletto... The Roadster might be up your alley as well but it won't do the Marshall sound like the Stiletto will. In the end let your ears and your guitar pick the amp for you... but in my opinion and coming from the same era and genre of music... if you and I were going shopping today for an amp I'd narrow it down to those three amps as far as Mesas go.

 

[robstar]

Wow... thank you so much for the very thoughtful and detailed responses!

So far a few Stilettos, a few Roadsters, MK IV, 5:25, F-30 and a Marshall in the mix. Probably not a bad apple in the bunch and a lot of horsepower.

Regarding the Fender -v- Marshall preference; I've definitely never found myself able to personally wrap my arms/ears/fingers around the Fender amp or guitar sounds in my own playing. On the other hand, some of my favorite sounds and artists are using them so I don't know how to explain that off. Maybe lack of talent! If you asked straight out, I'd say a Mesa / Marshall sound would be my instant answer and preference. Sometimes though it's the devil we know versus the devil we don't know.

Since my original post limited the budget wishing for $1k and up to $1,800 I'll have to open my wallet a bit wider to get to the Roadster; not completely undo-able but a bigger decision none-the-less. You're right that it's better to step to the plate now rather than trade in 6-12 months.

With the Mesa / Marshall tone preference out on the table now, what are your collective thoughts, experience and opinions?

Any of you using the above choices with a THD Hot Plate to keep the volume respectable w/o sacrificing tone?

The Stiletto suggestion got my attention for versatility as did the Roadster but someone mentioned it (Roadster) would not do a "Marshall' tone?

Somewhere I saw a link or links to audio files of the various Mesa amps but now I can't find it. Do any of you happen to remember where they are?

As big as Las Vegas is, I don't think we have a Mesa dealer here though one of the Guitar Centers on the East side is listed. The Writers Guild strike has cut my workflow in Hollywood for the time being so until they wrap that up I won't be back over there to hit the factory store until mid-February. Any favored Mesa dealers online that you folks can recommend?

Thanks again for your help... at least I have some direction to focus on now and I still welcome additional suggestions, comments and questions.

Robert Starling, SOC
Steadicam Owner Operator
Las Vegas

 

[Anonymous]

yes well, life leaves some changes - wonder which of my ex's got around here ...

anyway, I suggest you go for the ACE combo 1 or 2 x12". I bet it will feed your needs.

from exceptionally cleans to saturated fluids and with 50w not underpowered and even at bedroom levels sounding good.
I love it!

take care!

 

[ToneAddictJon]

Put the Maverick on your list of Mesa's to check out as well. They don't make them anymore, but pop up for under $800 on ebay fairly often, and they are sweet amps. I would say they can cover everything on your list of styles, and are SIMPLE to dial in compared to some other Mesa's.

 

[Hobo]

I have an F-30 and it works great for classic rock.
As someone else mentioned earlier, keep the gain down. I actually have mine set at 9:00. That gets me a great classic rock crunch.

The F-30 is rated at 30 watts but it gets just a loud as my Marshall JCM800 50 watt combo.

I paid $500 for my F-30, used but in MINT condition. Since I got it my Marshall doesn't get much use.

 

[Botch]

First off Welcome to the Board!

I'd say three things by Mesa...The Express 5:25 (not my cup of tea), Rectoverb (my fave "lower" watt Mesa), and Stiletto Ace (haven't tried one) all 50w or under. The Rectoverbs, IMO are the great undersold amps in Mesa's line.

I will say this about one other...and I've been walking on egg shells on this forum since I bought it, The Marshall JCM DSL 50 is a great amp. Playing 50w half stacks in the 70's / 80's this amp is going to be familiar to you right away. It covers the cleans from the SLP to the crunch of the JCM 800 (of course nothing is going to match these tones exaclty but it does a good job) to newer hi gain tones similar to a Rectifier. They don't hold their value like a Mesa so you can pick one up relatively cheap.

Research there speaker/cab selections. I think I avoided Marshalls for years was their selection of speaker. See this thread and I advise you to research the speaker that you select from Marshall.

See this thread
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?p=149392#149392

I agree! DSL50's are great amps, versatile and pretty cheap. Definately check out one of these or a Rectoverb. You could get a decent 1x12 cab for home use then when you start playing out you could then add a bigger cab into the equation.

 

[JW123]

Im probably from your age group. Live I am currently using a Triple Rec half stack (turned down low actually) I use the middle vintage channel 90 % of the time and just use the guitar volume on the guitar to control gain.

A couple of years ago I acquired a Mesa SubWay Rocket (not made anymore). I see them on e-bay quite often for around 350 dollars. A couple of monthes ago my Rectifier went in the shop and I took the Subway Rocket to a gig, and miced up noone knew the difference. That little amp gets a great classic rock sound. Its 20 watts tube, the only problem is the tone controls are shared between the clean and lead channel. It has reverb. If you look for these dont get the Subway Blues, it doesnt have a master volume, look for SubWay Rocket. Like I said this little amp is extremely versatile and I think could cover up to a 250 person room unmiced if need be. It has a headphone output for silent playing and with the master volume gets a good sound at bedroom levels.

Currently Im using a Morley wah-wah, TS-9 (for leads), and a Small Clone chorus pedal. The only thing Im lacking is some sort of delay but everytime I try to use one live it just goes away and washes out my tone.

 

[srf399]

Yeah...I've heard really good things about the Maverick as well... Never played one but never heard anything negative about them.

 

[jamme61]

I too played professionally in the 70's/80's and I too put my guitar away for a number of years while doing the domestic thing... and also the divorce thing. My first wife of 7 years never saw me play my guitar! I too sold my amps, cabinets, and effects. I did the rectoverb thing... and the MKIV thing for 2 years (the MKII was always my dream amp when I was playing and couldn't afford one). The MKIV is a great amp... but to me it was a very 2 dimensional flat sounding amp that lacked harmonic onvertones that the old Fenders and Marshalls had and that the newer Mesa possess in my opinion. The Mesa amps I gravitated to were the Express 25:5, Lonestar Classic, and the Stiletto. I ended up with the Stiletto Deuce Stg II cause I love the Marshall flavour it has. The F30 has a really nice "Boston/Tom Scholtz" lead sound IMO and the Express 25:5 is very similar. The Lonestar Classic is just a wonderful sounding amp that I would take over any vintage Fender in a heartbeat (I played a 1965 Deluxe Reverb and a 1969 Twin Reverb for years). It's a very 3 dimensional/wide spectrum sounding amp in the Fender tradition. The only thing it doesn't beat the Fender at is the Fender smell... I love the smell the vintage Fenders give off when you turn them on. LOL You older guys know what I mean!!! The Stiletto Stage II's have the depth and 3 dimensional quality sound that the Lonestar has except they do it with a Marshall EL34 flavor instead but every be as good as the Lonestar's Fender act. As far as playing at bedroom volume... every amp you've mentioned are better at higher volumes. You will save money if you buy the amp you'd play if you were going to go play live again tomorrow. The Express is a cool little unit and the 5 watts is appealing but my 2 cents worth is that you will do better to get something that will cut it live in any situation and you won't grow out of and end up trading in. If you're a Fender guy take the Lonestar Classic... if you're a Marshall guy take the Stiletto... The Roadster might be up your alley as well but it won't do the Marshall sound like the Stiletto will. In the end let your ears and your guitar pick the amp for you... but in my opinion and coming from the same era and genre of music... if you and I were going shopping today for an amp I'd narrow it down to those three amps as far as Mesas go.

+1 beware the MKIV IMHO

 

[robstar]

The Stiletto will cover all the artists you mention

Indeed from all the reviews here and elsewhere the Stiletto seems to be a strong contender in that price range.

What are you Stiletto owners/players doing for reverb solutions? Seems really odd they left that off this model but I'm sure that topic is covered elsewhere on the board.

Any predictions or leaks on possible new models coming out in a few weeks at NAMM?

 

[nor]

The Stiletto is your beast, sir. Put a clean boost in front, any ol 'verb in the back - you're good to go.

 

[srf399]

Well coming from a Fender background growing up with all the vintage blackface pre CBS's that my Dad's band used... nothing touches a Fender spring reverb in a built in setting except maybe a Lonestar or a Roadster. The MKIV reverb is a joke in my opinion and should have been a lot better. I bypassed it and used a digital reverb in the loop. I could care less if the Stiletto Deuce had a reverb unit in it to be honest. It's a head and would look pretty stupid with a spring reverb in it not to mention the added weight.... How many Marshall heads have a spring reverb unit in them? Besides I want more shades of reverb than a spring unit in an amp will give me. All I want from an amp is the core amp voicing that I can add effects to and create my own personal sound with. I don't expect a jack of all trades amp to get it. Every tube amp has it's strengths and weaknesses and after spending money on different amps to try to get it all in one package I've discovered that for me it is the basic amp voicing that suits my style of playing and that matches the guitar that is right for me. For others my guitar and amp would probably not work for them. With the effects I use (including reverb) I prefer to have them separate from my amp so that I can upgrade as new innovations an improvements in the effects come out.

 

[SixVeeSix]

Put the Maverick on your list of Mesa's to check out as well. They don't make them anymore, but pop up for under $800 on ebay fairly often, and they are sweet amps. I would say they can cover everything on your list of styles, and are SIMPLE to dial in compared to some other Mesa's.

+1 x 10 on the Maverick. I am an old school post-Hendrix rocker and I play in a Motown tribute band. They let me play as "outside" as I want - gives a new spin to some tunes but we have fun and people are dancing. Anyway, I have owned a few Mesas and played on many more. The Maverick is one of their most under-rated amps. I go from lush chimey cleans to a fluid "Cry of Love" and there are tones I don't use that you might like. Easy to dial, sounds good with ANY guitar, versatile and an inspiring tone. I paid $600 for mine shipped, they vary but seem to have gone up a bit.

I prefer the short body version but would buy a long body in a heart beat if I needed one. The amp is VERY responsive to tube and speaker changes for voicing. A friend who is a Bogner/Matchless freak was dissing Mesa one day and I let him play mine, now he WANTS one!