Metallica tone : Mesa Mark into Strategy 400

[decker]

Hi guys,


Since Metallica use Boogie amps, they often used their IIC+(+) slaved into Strategy 400 poweramps, in studio and live situations.

I’ve never owned/tried a Strategy 400.

Why Metallica did that ? Just to increase the level of the their sound because the level of the sound of the IIC+ plugged into their cabs wasn’t enough ? Or was it because the strategy 400 has a specific color that pleased their ears (it adds a specific eq, a specific compression or it brings more openness…) ?



Thanks.

 

[tommyhawk13]

My guess is the added power gave more bass. I have a friend that used to run his Quad through a strategy 400, and it was definitely deeper than a 50/50.

 

[Littleb]

Without a direct interview of James and kirk,best guess is probably a bit of all of the above.Also with a power amp like the 400,back then they could add more cabs to cover more stage area. This was a big thing to do back then.It takes multiple amps to drive many cabs that are setup across or under the stage at strategic locations.Ive used up to 10 - 4x12 cabs live once to do this exact thing.It was awesome. Also, the 400 is close to the power section of the iic+,so it's all a nice match up if ur runnin a iic+ and u want to add more cabs.Ive seen Stryper do this same thing back in the day too.Its a thing of glory to behold to walk almost anywhere on the big stage and have a cab movin air behind you.Dont confuse this with someone having a " mix" in ear so u can walk anywhere..Its NOT the same.Ive done both ways.Big difference.

 

[decker]

Thanks for your answers guys.

My guess is the added power gave more bass. I have a friend that used to run his Quad through a strategy 400, and it was definitely deeper than a 50/50.

At any level ? I ask you this because of the Fletch-Munson curves at low volume the ear is most sensitive to mid-frequencies whereas at high level, the bass will be heard more prominently.

Without a direct interview of James and kirk,best guess is probably a bit of all of the above.Also with a power amp like the 400,back then they could add more cabs to cover more stage area. This was a big thing to do back then.It takes multiple amps to drive many cabs that are setup across or under the stage at strategic locations.Ive used up to 10 - 4x12 cabs live once to do this exact thing.It was awesome. Also, the 400 is close to the power section of the iic+,so it's all a nice match up if ur runnin a iic+ and u want to add more cabs.Ive seen Stryper do this same thing back in the day too.Its a thing of glory to behold to walk almost anywhere on the big stage and have a cab movin air behind you.Dont confuse this with someone having a " mix" in ear so u can walk anywhere..Its NOT the same.Ive done both ways.Big difference.

Yes, there is no interview about Metallica using the Strategy 400, we don't even know how they plugged their Mark into it. Did they used :

1/ the send of the FX loop of the IIC+ into the intput of the Strategy 400 ?
2/ the slave out of the IIC+ into the intput of the Strategy 400 ?

To me it's the 2/ because the graphic EQ is located after the FX loop of the IIC+ so using the send would prevent from using the graphic EQ. Moreover, If you use the send, you skip the power section and then you don't have the coloration of the power section which is an important part of the sound of the IIC+.

 

[decker]

Also, the 400 is close to the power section of the iic+

A IIC + DRG is Simulclass but the Strategy 400 is not. What makes you think that the power sections of these two amps are close ?

 

[tommyhawk13]

Without a direct interview of James and kirk,best guess is probably a bit of all of the above.Also with a power amp like the 400,back then they could add more cabs to cover more stage area. This was a big thing to do back then.It takes multiple amps to drive many cabs that are setup across or under the stage at strategic locations.Ive used up to 10 - 4x12 cabs live once to do this exact thing.It was awesome. Also, the 400 is close to the power section of the iic+,so it's all a nice match up if ur runnin a iic+ and u want to add more cabs.Ive seen Stryper do this same thing back in the day too.Its a thing of glory to behold to walk almost anywhere on the big stage and have a cab movin air behind you.Dont confuse this with someone having a " mix" in ear so u can walk anywhere..Its NOT the same.Ive done both ways.Big difference.

Funny you mentioned Stryper. Here's a picture of the friend I was talking about with one of Stryper's old Half Backs.

 

[tommyhawk13]

As far as any level, I honestly couldn't answer that. The only level I heard was loud! I slaved my little 50 caliber into a 160 watt Peavey Mace, and I couldn't keep up with Mike. I only had 1 4 x 12, where he was running at least 4 cabs.

 

[GJgo]

Personally, even recorded, I have a feeling (having had them all) that the big power amp is required to get that AJFA tone. It would be slave out, not FX send, for best tone.

 

[decker]

Personally, even recorded, I have a feeling (having had them all) that the big power amp is required to get that AJFA tone. It would be slave out, not FX send, for best tone.

So to you in studio situation, the Strategy 400 has an impact on the sound.

During the Black album tours, a Rocktron Juice Extractor was present in James's rack next to the IIC+.

 

[Littleb]

A IIC + DRG is Simulclass but the Strategy 400 is not. What makes you think that the power sections of these two amps are close ?

You are correct there.The 400 is not simul." close" is a general term. iow,a lot closer than a 2-50,2-90,395,etc.From my mesa product literature it says the 400 descends directly from thier m-180 & m-190 power amps,which are killer power amps.A iic+ thru those would be really nice too.

 

[Littleb]

Mightve posted this before. Here's an article from mesa's own bulletin board article,vol 1,#1, jan.89'.

 

[Amimaster]

I'm on the opposite situation. I have a quad and a Stategy 500 (which is simul-class). I never tried other power amps with the quad but if the 400 is anything like the 500 it should sound a lot fuller (based on what I hear online), plus you can control presence independently for each channel and add some "depth" to the bass on each channel or run them so that they drive at half power.

The power is simply insane and they support many parallel cabs in stereo (I couldn't remember how many but they are way more than necessary for an average player). I used it on a venue once and while we were outdoor I only could push it to 4-5 per channel to avoid deafening everyone..

 

[Littleb]

^^^^ The 500 is nothing to balk at that's for sure.Its phenomenal in its own right.Simul power amps have thier benefits,but the mighty 400 and 500 are just beasts,right up there with the other king of heavy weights- the vht 2150 & 2100.I run a quad and a triaxis into a 500 regularly and it always puts a smile on my face.