Mark I, II, III, IV, V...why?

[mysterblues]

I saw a very well written amp troubleshooting article online recently. It's written by a certified repair tech. He said he thinks Mesa Boogie is over priced, over weight(that's true!), over hyped, and have way too many knobs and options. His argument is that if the Mark I was such a great amp, why did they stop making them. Same with the II. And then a , b and c and +. I get that Mesa has evolved and added things along the way, but to discontinue something seems like they think it lacks something. Fender and Marshall still make their old school amps and are reliable , sound great and are user friendly. I have a Mark IV, and I like it very much. But there are some difficulties dialing in a good tone quickly at different venues with all of the variables. I don't have the luxuries Petrucci has. Most of my gigs in the summer are multi-band festivals where I have to get my gear set up and ready as fast as possible. Mark I or II would be easier. And the weight!!!!! Just sayin.... :|

 

[jediguitarist]

I know the article you are referring. I read it a while ago and pretty much wrote it off to someone that already had a preconceived notion about Boogies solely based on repair. Similar to an auto mechanic not buying any Honda because he had to repair a few. :roll:

Anyway...
Are they hard to dial in? Compared to most other amps, yup. It takes a while to get used to how the bass affects the mid affecting the treble. I originally used a Quad (think Mark II and III) as my main gigging amp when it was still cool to bring out a stack :twisted: but ran into a few venues that had a drastic affect on the previous nights settings.

Used a 5150 combo for the better part of 6-7 years. Aside from the fact that it weighs as much as my Mark IVs, it has fewer knobs but I still ran into the same venue related issues.

I know people that will turn their amp on and play and not spend almost anytime on their settings. I like to be able to hear the amp. I have one weekly gig where my Mark IV (or DC-5) is on the side of the stage facing the band. Another where the amp is set traditional back line and both the settings are different.

I think the bottom like is that many Boogies are tweaking amps, compared to say a Marshall with 5 knobs. I think many of the people that don't like Boogies, just don't have the patience to learn their amp. I've done walk-ons and fill-ins using other peoples gear. I plugged into Marshall and got it up to stage volume. Tried tweaking, hated the tone but did the gig. Also plugged into a Bogner and didn't have to touch anything.

One thing that could help is to have a few knob maps that you can refer to. I have a pics on my phone of a few different settings that had worked on various gigs. If I have trouble getting a sound in the 5 minutes I have to set up and play, I dial one of the sounds in. If it works, cool. If not, I'll dial in another setting while my singer is doing her banter. :mrgreen:

 

[johnnieboy2]

Well, I'm probably uneducated compared to most experienced folks out there, but I'm not looking for that perfect tone, just a really good usable one and I have no problem with the Marks I've owned. I don't have to turn every knob every time and I'm pretty pleased with the Mark II,III and IV's I've owned. Fact is I always wind up buying another after selling one. I've owned the Oranges, Fenders, Gibsons, Dr Z's, Victoria, Tone King, and they are all good amps but I keep coming back to Markville, good all the way around but really no amp does everything really well. By the way, some of those amps I've mentioned have some very cheap cabinet construction to keep the weight down I presume, but no way as durable as my Marks. Mesa has the settings in the manual and online for general set ups and you can tweak from there. One disagreement I have is the statement about Fender...a Fender Deluxe today in no way resembles the first ones, not by a loooonnnng shot. In fact even a '57 reissue which does come very close is over $2k new and sounds like it, but it is a very limited amp in it's tones just like an original one would be today. The music has changed so much over the years. Not every one likes the Mark series but count me in their corner, weight and all. I've rambled a bit but had to chime in.

 

[ryjan]

Everybody is entitled to an opinion.

 

[SteveO]

I saw a very well written amp troubleshooting article online recently. It's written by a certified repair tech. He said he thinks Mesa Boogie is over priced, over weight(that's true!), over hyped, and have way too many knobs and options. His argument is that if the Mark I was such a great amp, why did they stop making them. Same with the II. And then a , b and c and +. I get that Mesa has evolved and added things along the way, but to discontinue something seems like they think it lacks something. Fender and Marshall still make their old school amps and are reliable , sound great and are user friendly. I have a Mark IV, and I like it very much. But there are some difficulties dialing in a good tone quickly at different venues with all of the variables. I don't have the luxuries Petrucci has. Most of my gigs in the summer are multi-band festivals where I have to get my gear set up and ready as fast as possible. Mark I or II would be easier. And the weight!!!!! Just sayin.... :|

Some people learn on old technology, and refuse to ever move beyond that.

 

[Markedman]

The Marks evolved over time, improving the layout of channels. With the Mark l, you need an A/B switch to change channels. The Mark ll, you had 2 channels but could switch easier, and well, in the end with C+, the tone improved for metal. The Mark lll was designed as a Fender/Marshall/Boogie all-in-one amp, but that needed improving which lead to the Mark IV. The Mark IV didn't really completely solve the 3 in 1 amp idea so Mesa now has the Mark V, which also is the best Mark for a 3 in 1 amp. Mark VI will improve again on this evolution with GEQ's on all channels and other features that will make it the best Mark. I imagine Mark Vll will be awesome until Vlll and IX come out. If you like plug-it-in, turn-it-on amps, you're doing yourself a disservice by owning a Mark amp, they're for tweekers who love to have a 100 different tones in 1 amp, good and bad sounds alike.

 

[mysterblues]

I really appreciate everyone's opinions, which is why I started this thread. I used to use a Fender Super Reverb as my main rig. It was a re-issue. I played it next to some friends who had the real vintage ones and they also played mine and found pretty much no difference. Every amp has it's own "something" , as do most guitars of the same make/model.
I guess Fender is Fender and Mesa is a journey. Like a car or a computer or cell phone. Every few years or so you have to upgrade, it sounds like. I'm not saying that you would HAVE to upgrade as my Mark IV certainly can do the job and more than what I require.
I am not trying to bash Mesa Engineering at all. In fact I really think their products are fantastic. If I was a metal player I'd probably be in heaven! Man that lead channel is ridiculous!

 

[gts]

If you like plug-it-in, turn-it-on amps, you're doing yourself a disservice by owning a Mark amp, they're for tweekers who love to have a 100 different tones in 1 amp, good and bad sounds alike.

Bashing Mark amps has been going on for years.
What Markedman says above is true.
But the bottom line is you (or anyone) who owns/ buys a Mark series amp needs to learn how they work
AND
Not assume they work the same way as as other amps such as a Fender Super Reverb (for example).

A few Fender amp guitar players have plugged into mine over the years (at a jam etc).
Each time they try to tweak the amp, set the knobs to what worked for them with their Fender they get frustrated.
I usually tell them they work differently and ask what they are looking for, turn a few knobs, ask again "is this what you want" etc....
Within a few seconds they say yes and are happy.
If I wasn't there to help them along their frustration would (like many non-Msa users) likely lead them to believe a Mesa Mark Series amp is crap.

 

[Snottyboy]

Marketability as styles and consumer demands change. The evolution of Boogies is very intriguing.

 

[Markedman]

Before I bought a Boogie Mark amp, every amp I owned had it's own sound without many varibles. I could get clean and some what drive/distortion tones but always needed help with a boost or distortion pedal to get good bite out of the amps, mostly Marshalls and Fenders and many, many others. Just "dimed" (10 on everything but master volume) the amp and played. When I got my first Mark, a IVb, everything changed for my tone. I now have a early mark lll, no boost or distortion pedals, and use that the most. I'm debating getting a Quad pre/50-50 vs. llC+ for my next Boogie.

 

[mysterblues]

Before I bought a Boogie Mark amp, every amp I owned had it's own sound without many varibles. I could get clean and some what drive/distortion tones but always needed help with a boost or distortion pedal to get good bite out of the amps, mostly Marshalls and Fenders and many, many others. Just "dimed" (10 on everything but master volume) the amp and played. When I got my first Mark, a IVb, everything changed for my tone. I now have a early mark lll, no boost or distortion pedals, and use that the most. I'm debating getting a Quad pre/50-50 vs. llC+ for my next Boogie.

So, in fact, you are going backwards; IV to a III, to possibly a II :? Makes me think that you want something not as complicated ,too!(not trying to be a douche!) Although, my amp tech said the Mark V is much more comprehensible than the IV. And it does appear that way. At least the front panel layout does. I get a bit lost with all of the push/pull pots on the IV. At least with toggles you can see them ...........

 

[Markedman]

I played a Mark V today and found it much easier to dial in a good sound right away than any other Mark amp. If I was playing in a band that plays cover songs as they sound on tape, this would be a great amp with it's endless sonic options. The Mark IV tones were very authentic compared to the IIC+ tone. I was playing through a Mesa TA open back cabinet at low volume and the sound was nice and tight, I sounded mega sloppy, which is good I suppose. The real test, of course, is using the Mark V live or at practice to see how it fits in with everything. Different preamp tubes would loosen it up and give the thing more rawness which I prefer.

 

[igfraso]

The Mark V is a Boogie with GPS. You cannot get lost.

 

[markwayne]

I've not read the article but I've heard the same from many techs and repair folks for years. I put it down to how little my Boogies have been serviced compared to Fender and Marshall in my experience. I used to gig a Super Reverb (65 vintage) and I will be the first to admit that that amp has a certain voodoo about it. On a good night, the tone doesn't get much better. But mine seemed to eat tubes, speakers and transformers and cost me so much to keep it healthy that I finally got rid of it and went to my first Boogie (brand new Mark III) and never looked back.

 

[amrose57]

The Mark V is a Boogie with GPS. You cannot get lost.

Well said!

Al

 

[HBob]

The article seems to say that there are other great amps that haven't changed at all. Really? All great amps are eventually discontinued or changed. Things change. Just more Mesa bashing. But hey, if some guys want to sell their amp because they suddenly want one with a tighter sound or higher gain or one that uses two EL34s instead of two 6L6s, or an amp with a triode preamp instead of a pentode preamp, fine. I just think it's easier to have all those options in my Mark IV. Flipping switches is easier than buying and selling amps.

 

[Rob Lockwood]

I like my my Mark series Boogies very much, but I sort of see the point in that as great as the Mark V is it doesn't imho get the sound/feel of my IIb or IVa (just like the IV cant do all the sounds that the II does). That's fine I don't own a V and the ones I have tried sound great in their own right and solve a lot of the usability issues of the earlier models. but its a shame that because a new series comes out you can't buy the older models anymore if that's the sound you want. It could be taken to suggest that Mesa feels that the latest does whatever the old one did so why would you want anything else.

I think the answer is probably a boring practical one. To keep the old models going would mean keeping the old hand etched circuit boards going alongside the newer pcb type and keeping supplies of all the old parts going or finding exact copies. Yes parts could change but then the earlier series amps wouldn't sound as they used to (as new Fenders don't) so it defeats the point. The bigger choice would reduce sales of any one type so costs go up and sales fall more. Mesas policy of keeping everything in house in USA doesn't help there. They could end up with a range of Kingsnake like models costing a fortune for a very basic amp however great it sounds.

My guess is not that Mesa think there is anything wrong with the earlier products and I am sure they know very well that there are things that the IV does that a V cant etc etc etc. But in the end it probably just isn't economically possible to keep the older Marks in production after the next one comes out. and if they don't keep making money there wont be any Mesas.

 

[Markedman]

Try selling a King-snake or anything before llC+ to a kid. They're buying the Mark V and loving it!

 

[JimAnsell]

That "tech" that wrote that article is a fucking wanker. everyone knows boogies are a bit tougher to work on than their pacific coast / way lower tech counter parts.
I know, the mark IV in particular, with its cramped internal space, stacked ldr's, and "you have to unsolder this to get to that" lay out, drives some techs to refuse working on them entirely. That includes one really famous local guy who i am dying to name, but won't, who 5 or 6 years ago, took one look at my mark IVa (that ended up just needing a few caps replaced), and told me basicly all of the above.
I remember reading all this **** over the years, usually from low post count gear fourmites, about how mark IV's are too hard to set because there are so many knobs and switches.
Fucking retards...all of them. really.
Way to play into the old outdated stereotype that guitarists are air heads.
A mark IV challenges the user to READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, and actually think about what they are reading.
way too much for the typical rockstar complexed, fading home musician, i know.
but quite rewarding when you get the hang of it.
****, all these guys using kempers and ax fx's these days. You think those are easier to tweak????

 

[MrMarkIII]

Modern amps with multiple PCB's (read: ALL amps, not just Mesa) are harder to work on, so old-school farts want them off their lawn.
And by all amps, I mean all mass-produced amps: Fender, Marshall, Mesa, etc.
Yes, even the reissue Twins and Super Reverbs and Deluxe Reverbs and Princetons, and.... etc., etc., etc.
Maybe amp builders should have stopped with the 5E3. :lol: :lol: :lol: