Bogner vs Mesa

[redmax61]

I'd be curious to know more about the Brentwood amps you have.

 

[Brentsp]

Uh, so no modeling amp among your collection?

What's left to model?? lol, he's got all the real ones right there haha. Amazing amp line up bud, hope to get there one day.....

-AJH

Ah you have the recto I want! I'm a sucker for chrome chassis, black diamond plate. I used to have a 92 two channel recto head like that but never a 3 channel. I've been pondering the idea of buying a Roadster head cab for mine (Or just buying a Roadster and be done with it).

 

[Brentsp]

I'd be curious to know more about the Brentwood amps you have.

The Brentwood amps are my own line of amps that I build part time. I used to have a website but I was getting an overwhelming response after a few Amp Fest gatherings and couldn't keep up so I pulled the site.....for now.

I have two models, the Epoch which is a very classy 4 gain stage no cathode follower high gain lead amp. It has your familar line up of controls like High, Mid, Low, Pres, Depth, Gain, Volume.
Lo and Hi inputs
3 way bright switch
on/off boost

The 2nd model is the Brentwood Avalon. Its a 3 gain stage medium gain (some old schoolers would call it high gain) vintage voiced amp.
Lo and high inputs
two way bright switch
on/off boost

Both amps have:
EL34
50/100 watt switch
low pwr/high pwr switch
series efx loop
All Point to Point turret board construction
custom PT/OT tranneys and choke
Aluminum Chassis

 

[redmax61]

If they sound half as good as they look, they must sound fantastic! do you have any clips?

I take it the purple one is an Avalon?

 

[siggy14]

I agree with him here on most of what he says.

3 Channel rec's, great all around amp, will get you by for almost any style of music, however they excel at the high gain. Only complaint is wish they were a bit smoother on the lower to medium gain.

Uber, this amp is built as a high gain monster, smoother gain then the rec, a bit more, but how much do you really need? Like said it gets away with medium to low gain, but not that great, well at least the one i have. I heard the newer revision (blue) has a better gain taper and it is more useible. What i like about the uber is the clean channel loves pedels/effects floorboards which makes it that much more useible.

XTC is my amp of choice, I mostly play rock to hard rock/metal and this amp is the die for tone! This amp I will probaly never part ways with unless i find something better, and I have been threw alot and have not found anything better yet.

Well i have done the side by side with the Hughes and Kettner Tri, lets just say it is pretty much a tie, however the Tri can get higher gain, where the uber has a much better plexi voicing. If i could get a TRI for under 2G's i would do a side by side for a few months and then decide which i would keep.

My recto, number R0005, well this has become my favorite high gain amp, i know i said in a post above if i had to choose between this and the Uber the uber would win hands down, well after some time i have concluded the uber is going!

Differences, they both sound pretty **** close but in order to get into the same gain realm as the uber i need to throw a tube screamer in front of the recto, however the recto just has harmonics that jump all over the place. i have tried putting the tube screamer in front of the uber, and well it still does not have th harmonics the recto has.

Thanks bro!

Those amps are all the Big Hitters of high gain / channel switching amps. Boy, your comparison and contrasting would be envaluable for us since you have them all. Then include the Aiken, Roccaforte ...

Well as everyone knows tone is so subjective so I can only give my brief opinion.

When it comes to a "do it all and do it all really good" amps, the Recto line is very hard to beat. The recto is one of the most finicky amps I've ever owned but I have to say it is rewarding if you match the amp up right.

I finally got to play a Diezel Herbert just recently and while its really nice I don't think its the "be all end all".

The Uberschall is a killer sounding amp for modern tones. It can do a half assed classic/vintage tone but theres other amps better for that like the XTC or Shiva.

Randall Aiken is a personal friend of mine and does an outstanding job of building/designing amps. His Aiken Sabre is an amazing modded marshall/Fender Super Reverb amp (minus the reverb).

......man I can go on all day but its 5pm here and time to go home! :wink:

 

[macmax]

i wil have to disagree with some posters.

While i have owned a Tremoverb(which was moddded) since 1994 and a Mark Iv and i just bought another Tremoverb last week, i must say Bogner stuff is really impressive.

I loved my Tremoverb dearlyand i am sure i will love the "new" one too, but the XTC and the Uber are two beats.

The distortion is great and not harsh at all

 

[Anonymous]

I have played the Shiva and Uber (and would love to play an Ecstasy), but I own a DR and an F-30. I love the sound and features Mesa offers, but to my ears the Bogner stuff edges out Mesa by just a hair. Its just my opinion for what I like in tone. My DR channel two in Vintage gets a great tone for me that is kind of snarly.

...but I just ordered a RKII with diamond plate, and I am sure that will keep me very happy and it still costs less than an Ecstasy.

 

[boogieman75]

but at the same time, i have friend in a sick metal band that uses an uber and it sounds amazing. as with any high-gain amp, if you crank up the gain and bass to 10, of course it's going to sound muddy. my engl is the tightest sounding amp i've ever played through...but i can still make it sound like mud if i wanted to. my buddy only turns the gain up to about 6 on his uber and it has as much gain as a recto on 8 or 9. as you mesa owners know, it takes a long time playing with a high end amp to get the sounds you're looking for because every amp reacts differently to the eq settings. i had my mark iv for about a month before i found the settings that i ended up using most of the time. going into a store a just plugging in for a few minutes won't give you a good impression of the amp.

i'm not busting on the rectos...i've had two of them. they're great amps. but comparing a recto to an uberschall or an ecstasy is like comparing an Audi to a Porsche.

Went to the Bogner site..impressive list of artists...and surprise, surprise...keeping in line with EVERY major manufacturer of EVERY piece of equipment ever made....Steve Vai is listed

vai has been using bogners live and in the studio for years.

You mean to tell me Vai doesn't use Carvin Legacy's exclusively live and in the studio?

 

[UKBoogieboy]

Two things put me off Bogner.

Number one the name.
Bog = Toilet,
Bognor = a crappy place in the UK for cheap weekends away. (Bognor Regis)
And NUMBER 2, back to the BOG again, lol. Bogner designed the Spider valve which is the worst sounding amp since the alesis amps.

And No one I like has ever used them.

My favourite guitarist Mark Knopfler has used,

Fender 60's Brown Vibrolux
Fender Twin
Other old Fender amps
Roland JC120
Music man HD130 Combo
Marshall JTM "studio version of Brothers in arms"
Mesa Boogie Mark heads with Marshall 4x12 loaded with EVM12L 300 watt drivers.
Jim Kelly Combo 1x12 EVM12L 300 watt driver.
Soldano SLO 100 heads with Marshall 4x12 loaded with EVM12L 300 watt drivers.
Crate VC5212 through a 2x12 Hughes and Kettner Cab with EVM12L's 300 watt drivers.
KOMET head through Marshall cab with Celestions.
Tone King Imperial combo.
REINHARDT head with Marshall 4x12 Celestions.

 

[fishyfishfish]

I had a Dual as my main amp since '07, and I think it is one of the best rock/metal amps out there.
The down side is that what ever guitar I use, it still sounds like the Recto. Period.
That is where Bogner is different. The Uber is flat out brutal, and when dialed in right could easily stop any Recto in it's tracks as far as sound and playability. I could never get the right feel out of my Dual unless I used a green screamer or other device. Play a cranked Marshall 1987x or JMP or Splawn or Diezel or VHT or even a SLO, then go back to a Recto. Big Difference.
That's why I bought a Shiva and traded my Dual for a Mark III.
Peace.

 

[volatileNoise]

The Uber is flat out brutal, and when dialed in right could easily stop any Recto in it's tracks as far as sound and playability.

You played one??

I tested one out today out of curiosity in a nice guitar shop I discovered, while out picking up a new pedal...

AND...

WRONG, a Rectifier blows this amp out of the water in every way, I don't know what some peoples issues are with getting a tone out of a Recto, but this Bogner has got NOTHING on a Recto, not in a rock way, not in a metal way, not in ANYWAY, even the guy in the shop was saying how much more gain they are capable of than a Mesa... And then I fire this thing up and start tweaking EVERYTHING looking for this massive 'sound' and ahhh NO such sound is there to be found, no matter how high I cranked the gain, and tweaked everything, it was not in the DR Ch3 Modern territory.

Reminded me of a Laney GH100L with EL34's loaded that a guy I played in a band with years ago had... Toneless **** box too, but actually even that probably had more gain than this Uberschall thing as well.

Only Bogner that impressed was a little vintage style combo that I used to test the pedal, its clean tone was nice...

 

[volatileNoise]

adding to my above post...

I will say though, that yeah, the Uberschall can pull a heavy sound, kinda OK at it too, but it is not blow you away impressive as what I was expecting from all the people raving about it...

Will have to try out a JCM800 and a Diezel some day, mainly keen to try out the VH4, as I have heard heaps of Marshalls over the years at gigs. :lol:

 

[oneaussie]

So as far as thrash/death metal goes I am reading that the dual recto is the way to go?

 

[Heritage Softail]

For thrash metal, just like anything else, see what players you like are using, and then test ride everything possible. I took day trips to try out amps and pedals. Very much worthy tone chasing experience. You will also find out what tones you like best, not end up being a 'fan boy', buying whatever guitarist X is using today.

I have played a few Bogs. Obviously a great amp, very much recorded and endorsed, has a different flavor of high gain. I like my Rivera Knucklehead Tre better and that is why I ended up getting that as my brutal gain amp. In the tone quest, I would definitely hit an SLO before deciding you have found the perfect amp for a lead player from blues to metal.

 

[ricomock]

So as far as thrash/death metal goes I am reading that the dual recto is the way to go?

For Thrash.....MARK SERIES FTMFW!!!!!!!!

 

[Dolebludger]

I've had two Mesas -- a Mark III and a Nomad 55 -- and have played on a number of other Mesa models. I have only played on one Bogner -- the Alchemist 2X12 combo. From my experience, I would say the "which amp is better" argument is moot because they are so different. A true "apples to oranges" situation. While the Bogner gave out a much smoother, more mellow tone, the Mesas are more "rock and roll". The Bogner had the best sounding reverb I have ever heard built into an amp, while I have never met a Mesa reverb I liked. So if you play things like blues, soft rock, jazz, or standards, you might like the Bogner. If you play "harder" material, you might want a Mesa.

And then there is a big difference in price point. The Bogner Alchemist I tried out is on sale at my GC, brand new, for $849. The Mesas there are MUCH more expensive. But if we talk about Bogner's other models, they seem to be HIGHER than Mesas.

There's no way to compare these amp brands. Each player has to do his own "test play" and decide for himself, based on his style of music.

 

[YellowJacket]

So as far as thrash/death metal goes I am reading that the dual recto is the way to go?

No, you are reading that you need to go and try gear for yourself and pick what you like, not what all the morons are using.

When I bought my Dual used I paid $1700 for it. This was several year back. Now everyone and their dog has one and is trying to get rid of it. They jumped on the bandwagon and now they are jumping off of it, you can't get more that $1,000 for the dang thing! I am gassing for a 'dyne right now which I think is awesome because 1) they sound incredible 2) not everyone and their dog wants / has one. It isn't a bandwagon amp!

Oh, it should be mentioned that all the fizzies and crap is one big stupid argument. Has it ever occurred to any of you that you may be loving / hating the cab instead of the head?

 

[stephen sawall]

It crushes it.

 

[Heritage Softail]

Dude.... it's like this thick organic round brutal tone dripping with liquid shred.....

 

[Rkorn]

Has anyone heard Rammstein??? 1 is Bogner Uber and the other guy has Mesa Dual... Is probably the best guitar sound i've heard live... both of them sound really really good, but Paul (the one with the Uber) has a little more Low End, just a little more...