Anyone have some playing time with both 6L6 and EL34's?

[phyrexia]

Oh different definition of "need", I understand. :lol:

 

[JOEY B.]

The MkV head owned by Mike ( aka "lesterpaul") was run with STR-440's in the outer sockets and STR 450's in the middle sockets today in a test session. NO issues whatsoever in the 90 and 45 watt power settings. In fact, with this tube layout and the bias select in 6L6 mode, we got SCARY close to the original simul/EQ/Rev C+ sound with the MkIV mode of the MkV. :shock: The 10 watt power setting is the only thing different with the MkV power section (aside from the inner pair being the ones with the hotter bias, instead of the outers on the older Marks), and if you go there with a "blended" tube setup, you do so AT YOUR OWN RISK. 8)

 

[lesterpaul]

The MkV head owned by Mike ( aka "lesterpaul") was run with STR-440's in the outer sockets and STR 450's in the middle sockets today in a test session. NO issues whatsoever in the 90 and 45 watt power settings. In fact, with this tube layout and the bias select in 6L6 mode, we got SCARY close to the original simul/EQ/Rev C+ sound with the MkIV mode of the MkV. :shock: The 10 watt power setting is the only thing different with the MkV power section (aside from the inner pair being the ones with the hotter bias, instead of the outers on the older Marks), and if you go there with a "blended" tube setup, you do so AT YOUR OWN RISK. 8)

**** skippy a few el 34 thoughts ...it was nice in the cleans with a Les Paul..which has "fatness"...cant comment on a superstrat (yet...)-more growl with the proper EL-34's ..we tried the 450's,the GT El 34M, and the Sylvania 6CA7's..(****!!)..
the skinny...the EL's had warmer highs,and were THE DEAL in Mk 1mode!!!less bottom end compliments the MK 1 mode, which is TOTALLY BADASS with good 34's in there...we were in MArshall mode a few times, with classic tones bouncin' off the walls...we were able to get a good transition between all 3 channels using fat or tweed on 1/crunch on chan 2/IV mode on 3......IMO, MK 1 mode is a specialized application available with this amp..if you MUST use chan 3 in conjunction with chan 2, you almost have to be in extreme setting, due to the vast diff. in eq...I really dig it(mk1)...as Joey stated , we got scary close blending the tube types...(thats why I bought some tubes from JB before I left...)if you are new to Mk amps, take note of what JB printed in above post regarding tube positions,etc...
bottom line, this is a mark amp-it allows you many different applications with a the swap of a few tubes....we swapped quite a few today in 4 plus hours of aural assault, and got quite a few different results...when she is cranked, the differences in power tubes are very apparent/even between the 34's we played with today
and yes, if you are trying to get more Metallica-fied, I would think el 34's are the way for you, my son( I will be blending, myself...until I needs a change..thats why you gotta love a Mark..variety, baby!!)

 

[gplex]

I tried some new mesa el34's and although I did like it, I thought the 6L6's sounded better across the board. But I had the same results with a DR solo 50. A little mushy for the high gain stuff. Then I tried a set of Mullard EL34's in the solo50 and was actually blown away. I just ordered E34L's for the Mark V from eurotubes. I have used these tubes before and they are are tight...and smooth. Same general tone as a regular EL34 but deeper low end and quite a bit tighter, possibly more so than a 6L6. Not as much low end though. But different , tucked up a bit with a smooth searing lead and punchy mids. Looking forward to try them in the V. The only thing about 6L6 in the V is the lead is a little to crisp and stinging for me. Just another quick point, eurotubes does not recommend running mixed tubes in the V. They usually have all kinds of mixed sets for Mesa's. Mesa says no also.

 

[JOEY B.]

Just another quick point, eurotubes does not recommend running mixed tubes in the V. They usually have all kinds of mixed sets for Mesa's. Mesa says no also.

So you're okay with voiding your warranty using non-Boogie labeled power tubes???? If I wanted to know about tube arrangements that could be safely run in a new design Boogie, Bob would not be the highest authority. When I spoke of a safe way to run the "blend" in the 45 and 90 watt settings, I was not assuming anything or talking out of my ***. I will not reveal my source of information, but he knows much more of the finite details of the MkV than anyone at Eurotubes.

STAY OUT OF THE 10 WATT MODE WITH THE "BLEND"!!!!
8)

 

[gplex]

Just another quick point, eurotubes does not recommend running mixed tubes in the V. They usually have all kinds of mixed sets for Mesa's. Mesa says no also.

So you're okay with voiding your warranty using non-Boogie labeled power tubes???? If I wanted to know about tube arrangements that could be safely run in a new design Boogie, Bob would not be the highest authority. When I spoke of a safe way to run the "blend" in the 45 and 90 watt settings, I was not assuming anything or talking out of my ***. I will not reveal my source of information, but he knows much more of the finite details of the MkV than anyone at Eurotubes.

STAY OUT OF THE 10 WATT MODE WITH THE "BLEND"!!!!
8)

Just posting what I heard from what I feel is a relieble source. The company that made the amp. I would like to hear how you make out with your matched sets as I agree it would be the best of both worlds. But running a quad of different tubes, with much different current draw is much different than running a quad of the same tubes with a different label painted on it. Have you measured your current draw running those tubes? Curious what your pulling from the EL34's. That will tell us if it is safe or not. Most good tube retailers can eaisly match up any "brand" of tube to any fixed bais amp... safley. Good luck and let us know how you make out. And relax.

 

[JOEY B.]

Just another quick point, eurotubes does not recommend running mixed tubes in the V. They usually have all kinds of mixed sets for Mesa's. Mesa says no also.

So you're okay with voiding your warranty using non-Boogie labeled power tubes???? If I wanted to know about tube arrangements that could be safely run in a new design Boogie, Bob would not be the highest authority. When I spoke of a safe way to run the "blend" in the 45 and 90 watt settings, I was not assuming anything or talking out of my ***. I will not reveal my source of information, but he knows much more of the finite details of the MkV than anyone at Eurotubes.

STAY OUT OF THE 10 WATT MODE WITH THE "BLEND"!!!!
8)

Just posting what I heard from what I feel is a relieble source. The company that made the amp. I would like to hear how you make out with your matched sets as I agree it would be the best of both worlds. But running a quad of different tubes, with much different current draw is much different than running a quad of the same tubes with a different label painted on it. Have you measured your current draw running those tubes? Curious what your pulling from the EL34's. That will tell us if it is safe or not. Most good tube retailers can eaisly match up any "brand" of tube to any fixed bais amp... safley. Good luck and let us know how you make out. And relax.

I am very relaxed. A matched quad will not be optimum in a simulclass Boogie. I have been down the "current draw" path withe these amps. I will send you a PM. 8)

 

[CudBucket]

The EL34's are a more "musical" tube than the 6L6, due to it's longer plate.

Just make that up yourself? :roll:

 

[CudBucket]

The MKV has turned this Marshall, Cornford, Guytron, and Egnater amp loving man into a MESA convert! The MESA MKV anyway...

:roll:

 

[Supreeth]

Combining EL-34 and 6L6 tubes is not possible (or not recommended) in the Mark V in either bias setting. I took my Mark V to Bob from eurotubes and we measured the voltage and current draw from both the inner and outer sockets. The 6L6 and EL34 combo would definitely push things over the top. I don't recall the exact numbers Bob recorded but unfortunately it looks like combining 6L6 and EL34 tubes would hurt the amp in the long run.

cheers,
Supreeth

 

[rabies]

The EL34's are a more "musical" tube than the 6L6, due to it's longer plate.

Just make that up yourself? :roll:

due to its longer plate, of course. very technical. give it up man. thegaindeli entertains himself, whether we like it or not. just ignore his madness.

:twisted:

 

[rabies]

"musical" (micro-phonic)

I've noticed this guy makes some interesting comments. Totally random man. I have used Telefunkens and they're only microphonic at extremely high gain and volume levels (like any other preamp tube).

 

[Jim Ed Love]

Just got through with a 2 hour jam session with MESA STR450 EL34 power-tubes. Results: I'm going to have one hell of a time getting all this goo off the front of my amp! If you're not an EL34 person - stick with the 6L6's. The EL34's are a more "musical" tube than the 6L6, due to it's longer plate. Same with the JJ's 12AX7's vs Sovtek LPS 12AX7's - or Tung-Sol. IMHO - all MKV's should ship with these tubes to begin with.

I haven't tried the Tung-Sol 12AX7's yet, but I think I will give them a try. I understand that the Sovtek 12AX7's are real quiet, but the Tung-Sol tubes are getting good reviews. Has anyone tried the Tung-Sol 12AX7's? The EH 12AX7's are pretty good too.

I do have Tung-Sol 6l6's in my MKIIC+ and they sound amazing. I recommend those tubes whole heartedly. I did try the amp with the 6l6, EL34 combination, which sounded good but I prefer the 6l6 configuration. I want to put the Tung-Sol power tubes in MKV when it arrives but I noticed there are 6 of those bad boys in there. :shock: Boogie should ship their amps with those tubes.

I really doubt that Mesa Boogie properly tests their tubes and it is no wonder that people have tube problems. I really want to swap out the tubes when I get my MKV but it will cost over $200.

 

[phyrexia]

Combining EL-34 and 6L6 tubes is not possible (or not recommended) in the Mark V in either bias setting. I took my Mark V to Bob from eurotubes and we measured the voltage and current draw from both the inner and outer sockets. The 6L6 and EL34 combo would definitely push things over the top. I don't recall the exact numbers Bob recorded but unfortunately it looks like combining 6L6 and EL34 tubes would hurt the amp in the long run.

cheers,
Supreeth

In what way would it "push things over the top"?

 

[WillPlayForFood]

Just wanted to thank Lester and Joey for their contributions here!! I don't have the $$ to swap out my tubes very often. So, I greatly appreciate the time, effort and $$ that it takes to write good reviews of the tube swapping play I love hearing what you find out when you try say 3 different EL-34's or different brands of pre amp tubes, etc. It is really helpful to get the review and the opinions of the tonal variations.

I was especially glad to know about the 10 watt setting issues. I personally haven't been running my Mark V in 10 watt setting at all, like to 90 watt :mrgreen: Yet, it is important to know the things that are clearly destructive, as opposed to the things that are simply inadvisable, HA!

I would be excited to have a sticky set-up regarding the findings of tube swaps, so when anyone that has these questions, now and in the future, can refer to a thread that has some "real" experience info.

Thanks again guys!!

 

[lesterpaul]

Just wanted to thank Lester and Joey for their contributions here!! I don't have the $$ to swap out my tubes very often. So, I greatly appreciate the time, effort and $$ that it takes to write good reviews of the tube swapping play I love hearing what you find out when you try say 3 different EL-34's or different brands of pre amp tubes, etc. It is really helpful to get the review and the opinions of the tonal variations.

I was especially glad to know about the 10 watt setting issues. I personally haven't been running my Mark V in 10 watt setting at all, like to 90 watt :mrgreen: Yet, it is important to know the things that are clearly destructive, as opposed to the things that are simply inadvisable, HA!

I would be excited to have a sticky set-up regarding the findings of tube swaps, so when anyone that has these questions, now and in the future, can refer to a thread that has some "real" experience info.

Thanks again guys!!

no problem,Willplay-stay tuned,we will be posting how the V performed when subjected to the ol' BiasRite-should clear a lot up for sure

 

[JOEY B.]

Bias Rite readings:

Plate Voltage: 450-full power , 370-Variac Power

Current Draw:

all STR-440's 6L6 - Outer sockets 30-32mA
Inner sockets 36mA

with 6L6 and EL-34 blend and 6L6 bias setting -

Outer sockets 30-32 mA
Inner sockets 10 mA

with all STR-450 EL-34's , EL-34 bias setting

Outer sockets 43 mA
Inner sockets 53 mA

with GT EL-34M #4 rating, EL-34 bias setting

Outer sockets 38 mA
Inner sockets 43 mA

The low corrent draw with the "blend" in the 6L6 bias setting will not hurt your amp, but it is a long way from optimal sound for the EL-34's. The plate voltage is lower and the bias for the hotter sockets is cooler than my C+ (that same setup will pull double the current with these STR-450's) SO, my viewpoint is that if you want to try the blend (in 45 or 90 watt mode), then give it a shot. You might like what you hear. If someone would just kick Groove Tubes in their ***, and get them to start making the 6CA7-GE again, this controversy would become null and void 8) . We played the MkV with a set of MESA branded Sylvania 6CA7's , and it was my favorite power tube combination thus far. If they just weren't so rare and expensive :evil: . Some photographic evidence for your pleasure.

 

[lesterpaul]

well done,Kingpin! thats what I'm talkin' 'bout

 

[rabies]

Bias Rite readings:

Plate Voltage: 450-full power , 370-Variac Power

Current Draw:

all STR-440's 6L6 - Outer sockets 30-32mA
Inner sockets 36mA

with 6L6 and EL-34 blend and 6L6 bias setting -

Outer sockets 30-32 mA
Inner sockets 10 mA

with all STR-450 EL-34's

Outer sockets 43 mA
Inner sockets 53 mA

with GT EL-34M #4 rating

Outer sockets 38 mA
Inner sockets 43 mA

So the EL34 readings above for 4xEL34 are "hot-biased" (over 60-70% MPD) according to the EL34 table here: http://www.webervst.com/tubes1/calcbias.htm

No more cold-biased complaints like I had with the class A sockets with EL34's in the Mark IV (8-10ma readings IIRC).

 

[JOEY B.]

So the EL34 readings above for 4xEL34 are "hot-biased" (over 60-70% MPD) according to the EL34 table here: http://www.webervst.com/tubes1/calcbias.htm

No more cold-biased complaints like I had with the class A sockets with EL34's in the Mark IV (8-10ma readings IIRC).

Not once you "throw the switch" on the back of the MkV. 8) The measurements were taken with the diode rectifier, the tube rectifier will lower the current draw a little bit.