screamingdaisy
Well-known member
What's the difference in tone between a 4x12 and two 2x12s stacked?
4x12 vs two 2x12s....
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strumminsix
Well-known member
2 trips to the car?
A lighter load each go?
I'm sure there is some tone difference but I doublt you'd ever truly hear it.
A lighter load each go?
I'm sure there is some tone difference but I doublt you'd ever truly hear it.
I had the opportunity to run 2x2x12s and a 4x12 a while back. I had the same speakers in all of them. Both 2x12s were closed back. What I noticed was the 4x12 felt more room friendly. Even at low volumes the 4x12 seemed to move the air in a way that surrounded me better. The 4x12 cab, which was a Marshall 1960A with Weber Silver Bells, was a classic design and the cabinet let the speakers breath while the closed back kept the bass tight.
I also thought the 4x12 kept the tone cleaner - as in it supported the headroom better.
The stacked 2x12s (a Marshall 1936 and Avatar) did a good job of getting close. Maybe it was because it was 2 different cabs, but I never got the fullness of the 4x12 as it relates to the room effect. I am sure if I had miked the two they would have sounded the same, but the difference to me was felt in the room. When I rolled them outside on the back deck and opened them up I liked the 4x12 better. I seemed like all 4 speakers were working together better in the 4x12. I can imagine a bunch of reasons for that, but it really does have an impact on the feel of the cab.
It was nice to be able to split them up and get more of a stereo effect. And a 2x12 is more portable than the 4x12 but you already know that!
I sold the all of the cabs and have moved to a combo. Of all of them, I miss the 4x12 and the sound it lent to the playing. It just feels more like rock. I should have kept it. It does take up space and is heavy, but there is something about a 4x12 that is just singular.
So this probalby didn't help at all, but thanks for letting me rant.
I also thought the 4x12 kept the tone cleaner - as in it supported the headroom better.
The stacked 2x12s (a Marshall 1936 and Avatar) did a good job of getting close. Maybe it was because it was 2 different cabs, but I never got the fullness of the 4x12 as it relates to the room effect. I am sure if I had miked the two they would have sounded the same, but the difference to me was felt in the room. When I rolled them outside on the back deck and opened them up I liked the 4x12 better. I seemed like all 4 speakers were working together better in the 4x12. I can imagine a bunch of reasons for that, but it really does have an impact on the feel of the cab.
It was nice to be able to split them up and get more of a stereo effect. And a 2x12 is more portable than the 4x12 but you already know that!
I sold the all of the cabs and have moved to a combo. Of all of them, I miss the 4x12 and the sound it lent to the playing. It just feels more like rock. I should have kept it. It does take up space and is heavy, but there is something about a 4x12 that is just singular.
So this probalby didn't help at all, but thanks for letting me rant.
A
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screamingdaisy
Well-known member
Not really looking to go as tight as Fear Factory......gotta have those big saggy mutes the Rectifier dishes out.
I'm more into doom/sludge metal.....I'll leave the faster, tighter, more aggressive stuff to the thrash/death guys.
I've been experimenting with running two amps at home lately to get a mix of their tones, but it's alot of **** to lug around. I was considering using two 2x12s....one for each head, but now I'm reconsidering (I've posted this thread on a couple different forums). I think I'll keep the 4x12 for when I run one head, and for when I run both I'll run each head into half the cab.
I'm more into doom/sludge metal.....I'll leave the faster, tighter, more aggressive stuff to the thrash/death guys.
I've been experimenting with running two amps at home lately to get a mix of their tones, but it's alot of **** to lug around. I was considering using two 2x12s....one for each head, but now I'm reconsidering (I've posted this thread on a couple different forums). I think I'll keep the 4x12 for when I run one head, and for when I run both I'll run each head into half the cab.
A
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OneMoreAugust
Well-known member
if the ohms on the 2x12s and the 4x12 are the same, and the same speakers are throughout, it shouldn't make a difference. strumminsix had it right about two trips to the car, but on the other hand, you could bring just a 2x12 home or to a smaller club a lot easier than the 4x12 cab.
The physics of the (two closed back) are not the same. A 4 x 12 has more internal volume, and supports internal standing waves with a longer wavelenggth than a 2 x 12.
In my experience, the perceptual difference is that a 4 x 12 has more bottom end than two 2 x 12s.
If you can find a 2 x 12, perhaps a ported one, that truly sounds like a 4 x 12, then I would say go for it, or for two of them. There a couple of possibilities, for example Bogner makes a ported 2 x 12 that is supposed to sound great. I'm not sure whether Mesa still makes Thiele cabinets, but I would try these as well if you can find any of them.
In my experience, the perceptual difference is that a 4 x 12 has more bottom end than two 2 x 12s.
If you can find a 2 x 12, perhaps a ported one, that truly sounds like a 4 x 12, then I would say go for it, or for two of them. There a couple of possibilities, for example Bogner makes a ported 2 x 12 that is supposed to sound great. I'm not sure whether Mesa still makes Thiele cabinets, but I would try these as well if you can find any of them.
strumminsix
Well-known member
Thinking of ported cabs Genz Benz comes to mind.
Also, I saw these guys on eBay. They look great!
http://cgi.ebay.com/BuzzBomb-2x12-Guitar-amp-speaker-cab-Eminence-speakers_W0QQitemZ7394286706QQcategoryZ621QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
However, I know nothing about them and in no way vouche for them.
Also, I saw these guys on eBay. They look great!
http://cgi.ebay.com/BuzzBomb-2x12-Guitar-amp-speaker-cab-Eminence-speakers_W0QQitemZ7394286706QQcategoryZ621QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
However, I know nothing about them and in no way vouche for them.
Ylo, you are wrong with your statings!
A 4x12 with the same speakers will sound the same as two 2x12 with total internal volume equal to a 4x12.
It is not about total volume, but about volume per speaker!
Internal standing waves...at least one dimension in the 2x12 is the same as in a 4x12...
BTW, Mesa recto vertical 2x12 has more bass than a standard 4x12, because it has greater volume per speaker...
A 4x12 with the same speakers will sound the same as two 2x12 with total internal volume equal to a 4x12.
It is not about total volume, but about volume per speaker!
Internal standing waves...at least one dimension in the 2x12 is the same as in a 4x12...
BTW, Mesa recto vertical 2x12 has more bass than a standard 4x12, because it has greater volume per speaker...
Jaroslav said:
Back up Charlie, I have tried this with different cabs and different speakers, and a 4x12 does NOT sound the same as two 2x12's, I don't care what your math says. And the recto 2x12's vertical or horizontal do NOT have more bass than a standard 4x12.
I'm just going by my ears.
MetalMatt
Well-known member
...Or someone might want to call Mesa/Boogie and ask? wouldn't they know? They only make the darn things.
Matt
Matt
Baba,
I am also judging from my own ears. ADA splitstack sounds the same to me as a 4x12 with G12S Celestions in it. Also, my mesa 2x12 vertical recto has more bass than Marshall 1960AV, also with V30s.
My view is, that highest influence on the sound has the room it self or where you(or the cabinets) stand in the room, respectively.
But people have different psycho-acoustic perception, that's why our opinions differ...only exact measurement would show the objective truth...and none of us has performed it.
I am also judging from my own ears. ADA splitstack sounds the same to me as a 4x12 with G12S Celestions in it. Also, my mesa 2x12 vertical recto has more bass than Marshall 1960AV, also with V30s.
My view is, that highest influence on the sound has the room it self or where you(or the cabinets) stand in the room, respectively.
But people have different psycho-acoustic perception, that's why our opinions differ...only exact measurement would show the objective truth...and none of us has performed it.
tele_jas
Well-known member
I had a Peavey 4x12 loaded with 85wt celestions and it thumped my butt off...... I then decided to go down to a 2x12 and I got a Genz Benz 2x12 and I almost couldn't tell that I didn't have a 4x12 beind me, I then let the GAS kick in and I got a 2nd Genz Benz 2x12 and that was totally insane the tones I got from those two cabs and the low end was amazing and focused and the design of the genz benz just felt fuller. I ended up selling one about a year later to get a Triple Rectifier and I recently sold my other one since I hadn't used it in over a year (since I went combo).
If I ever get another cab, you can bet it'll be a Genz Benz G-flex 2x12.
Two 2x12's also gives you the option of cutting your rig in half for practice or small gigs and also the option to spread out your speakers if you want to make your sound even fuller (like one stage right & one stage left). You could also get two different type of 2x12's that sound good together, but sound totally different.... Like a closed back and an open back and mic each one.
If I ever get another cab, you can bet it'll be a Genz Benz G-flex 2x12.
Two 2x12's also gives you the option of cutting your rig in half for practice or small gigs and also the option to spread out your speakers if you want to make your sound even fuller (like one stage right & one stage left). You could also get two different type of 2x12's that sound good together, but sound totally different.... Like a closed back and an open back and mic each one.
LOOPJUNKIE
Well-known member
I used to run a 4x12 with my road-king, but tried out the (2) 2x12 route and the flexibility was awesome! and my sound was way tighter (which may leave the "impression" of less bass? but I actually think it has more! and sheer airspace of a 2x12 setup is Way more they the 4x12 espesally a slanted 4x12) but the way I see it you can always make your sound "loser" but when you need tight; its got to be there! and all this is just my opinion and own personal experience.
Jaroslav said:
I'll agree here. Sometimes I'll use my veritcal recto 2x12 instead of my Avatar 4x12 to save room, I'm always missing some low end and body no matter what bar I'm in, or in my house.
The 2x12 sounds damned good with the Recto though, I haven't used mine live in a while, thinking about it for the next gig.
PRS 10 Top
Member
I presently use two stacked Mesa Recto horizontal 2x12 8ohm cabs with either one of the following Mesa heads: my 90's 2-channel Dual, an early '00 3-channel Triple or a GC-scored Stiletto Deuce (my latest acquisition). Personally, I like the sound of the stacked 2x12 cabs. It's a totally different flavor than the 4x12. I feel the 2x12s are more focused, tighter and "modern" whereas the 4x12 pushes more air and is a bit looser/saggy and "classic" sounding.
As I can no longer physically carry a 4x12 cab (due to major neck surgery), I'm quite satisfied with the amount of thump and volume my dual 2x12 rig puts out! I'd say the best analogy between the two cabinets is similar to the SS/tube rectifier tonal difference; the dual 2x12 is akin to the SS rectifier while the 4x12 is the equivalent of a tube rectifier tone and feel.
Just my .02 .....
As I can no longer physically carry a 4x12 cab (due to major neck surgery), I'm quite satisfied with the amount of thump and volume my dual 2x12 rig puts out! I'd say the best analogy between the two cabinets is similar to the SS/tube rectifier tonal difference; the dual 2x12 is akin to the SS rectifier while the 4x12 is the equivalent of a tube rectifier tone and feel.
Just my .02 .....
LOOPJUNKIE
Well-known member
PRS 10 Top said:I presently use two stacked Mesa Recto horizontal 2x12 8ohm cabs with either one of the following Mesa heads: my 90's 2-channel Dual, an early '00 3-channel Triple or a GC-scored Stiletto Deuce (my latest acquisition). Personally, I like the sound of the stacked 2x12 cabs. It's a totally different flavor than the 4x12. I feel the 2x12s are more focused, tighter and "modern" whereas the 4x12 pushes more air and is a bit looser/saggy and "classic" sounding.
As I can no longer physically carry a 4x12 cab (due to major neck surgery), I'm quite satisfied with the amount of thump and volume my dual 2x12 rig puts out! I'd say the best analogy between the two cabinets is similar to the SS/tube rectifier tonal difference; the dual 2x12 is akin to the SS rectifier while the 4x12 is the equivalent of a tube rectifier tone and feel.
Just my .02 .....
Agreed! I like a tighter "feel" ; and anyways isn't that most peoples complaint about or favorite amp? to "saggy?" and if you don't like the "tightness" of a the duel 2x12 there is always a "sag" switch in the back :lol:
I think 2x12's are the way to go! you can always get "looser" but you cant really get tighter. my .000384 cents.
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