A Mesa Boogie combo vs head and one twelve with 23" cabinet

[Revelation]

In considering getting a Mark VII and wondered what your thoughts are on the combo vs the head and one 12" speaker with the wider 23" cabinet. I have found the Mark VII combo not to be that boxy, but is it worth another $325 or so for getting separates if your going to keep the amp in your home studio most of the time? Would there really be much of a difference between the two especially when 95% of the time, I will be playing at lower volumes?

 

[domct203]

Welcome to the forum.

For what you described I think you would be happy with a combo.

Combos are a great ‘at home’ amp, as well as the perfect ‘grab and go’ solution for the occasional gig or jam session. If you are playing mostly at home it’s a great choice to minimize the rig’s footprint.

I’m not a fan of the open back cabinet for rock or high-gain tones at stage volume. If the combo is an open back (as is the MKVII) chances are it would be very difficult to make it closed if you wanted to. Sure, you can add a closed back cab to the rig, but now you are carrying two large items, and one is heavier than it needs to be…

A separate cab can be either, I have a pair of Avatar speaker cabs that can do both open or closed back with the quick removal of a section of the back panel.

Personally I prefer the separate head/cab configuration, I own many different cabinets, and it’s nice to be able to choose the 1X12 Theile for small jams or open mic’s, a 2x12 for those gigs where the band is stuffed in a corner of the bar, or 4x12’s for outdoor or theater size gigs.

I hope this helps with your decision.

Dom

 

[tbonesullivan]

I have multiple mesas, and every one of them is a combo. For at home playing, or even small gigs playing out, they are just more convenient. I also don't play music that is reliant on having the super tight sound of a closed back cabinet.

If you are just going to be playing at home and in the studio, I would think the combo is fine, especially if you don't already have some cabinets to plug it into.

 

[Revelation]

Thank you for your replies; I think as long as the amp combo does not sound boxy, I will go for the combo which will save me several hundreds of dollars. In addition, I am considering getting this amp stand that
1. Takes the amp off the ground and points it towards you.
2. No more bending down so low to make a change.
3. You should have the ability to see the knobs better with it higher up and tilted.

 

[bandit2013]

I see what it is you are after. To start with, the Mark VII amp itself is not tuned to have a boxy tone. Say compared to the Mark V90 running into the same cabinet. Mark V90 does have a boxy sound to it regardless of the speaker connected to it. Even the Mark IVB had that characteristic. When I compared the V90 and Mark VII through the one widebody 112 cab with the EVM12L classic, the overall tone of each amp was more apparent since the speaker runs a flat frequency curve compared to other speakers out there. The MC90 is actually decent and maintains a good balance in tone. It may have a slight midrange change for that vintage sound but not as dramatic as say a V30. I did indicate in some of my posts on videos that made the amp sound boxy. More than likely it was the method of how it was recorded. Some video cameras do not do music all too well due to the limits of the range of their built in microphones. If you listen to the Sweetwater demonstration on the Mark VII combo, I thought it sounded really good. They did not bring in the IR cab clone unlit later in their video.



This was obviously recorded using a cell phone. It sounds great. I would be happy with this.


This is not all that bad either, yeah, the mark IIB mode is bottom heavy, need to dial back on the low end a bit. Sort of like the Mark I mode on the Mark V90 but not as bottom and midrange rich.


I cannot seem to find that really boxy video. Was it the Huber/breeze one? I would rule that one out as a representation of the sound quality of the amp but more or less the recording quality of the camera's mic. The only way I can get the "in the room sound" from a video camera is with close mic on the speaker cab, channeled to a dynamic preamp, followed by another preamp that can reduce the signal level to send to the camera (bypassing the built in mic that is specifically for recording voice than anything else). That method works great and it does sound like it does in the room.
My bad on presenting that one.

 

[Revelation]

Thanks for your input; your making me feel more confident the combo will be the best for my needs.

Regarding the C90 speakers, this video shows that the C90 speaker is open and detailed compared to the Vintage 30 which has a reduced top end and tighter sound. It actually sounds closer to my Boogie Express 5 25 with the Vintage speaker. I prefer the C90 for my next Boogie.

 

[Revelation]

Well the combo sounds fantastic and not boxy at all. The one problem I have is, it looks like a small practice amp. It does not look like a power house amp that it is, nor does it look impressive due to its small size. I am thinking about getting the head with the wide one 12 cabinet just to have more of a "this is a real amp" look. Its a little vain, and it would be much easier to bring the combo to play with the worship band as the amp is in the back area away from the stage to keep the volume on stage low as we all use in ears.

I guess it makes sense to stick with the combo.

 

[bandit2013]

I hate to say it, I liked the V30 in that video. The Mark V90 is probably not a good example for a speaker test as the Mark VII sounds nothing like it. It may be similar but different.

V30 performs much better in a closed back cabinet than open back combo. Not all V30 speakers sound the same. The version that Mesa is currently using is the upgraded voice coil, I would assume the video was using that version considering the Mark V90 came out in 2009. Between 1999 and 2004 (if this is correct) Mesa was using the 70W V30 which are not very good as they flub out so easily. The oversized recto cab I bought in 2000 had the 70W V30 which I felt was unusable. I changed over to the EVM speaker in that particular cab. I do like the 60W version Mesa is currently using. I think they sound much better.

The bottom line is how good does the Mark VII sound with the MC90 as that amp is more balanced and not boxy in tone like the Mark V90 is. If you need to play at gig level or stupidly loud I would highly recommend adding an extension cab. When running a 4 ohm load with the Mark VII, JP2C and may as well include the Mark V90 and Mark IVB, you do have a tone change and some of the peak brightness is reduced a bit. You will gain more SPL with two speakers vs just the one so you do not need to drive the volume up as much.

What I found with the EVM12L speaker in general (this is excluding the Mark III as that amp was loud to start with) is when you try to run the amp at bedroom level, it may tend to sound sterile. When the volume goes up, it just sounds really good. Just a comparison, the Mark V90 combo I have loaded the EV (at the time it was the black label speaker) with a deep extension cab with the same speaker was much louder than using the 412 cab loaded with V30 speakers.

I cut the back of the extension cab as it was too dark in its closed back form. I do not remember where I got the extension cab. It was not a Mesa product.

the MC90 is a decent speaker in most respects. I much prefer something different. Just a hint on the MC90, do not use it in a closed back cab that is not ported. If you do that, the voice coil vent will become the pressure port as that screened port on the back of the magnet extends through the entire core of the speaker. If you do not believe me, shine a light from the back side of the speaker and loot at the front, you will see the light through the dust cap. MC90 is for open back or ported cab only.

 

[bandit2013]

Nothing wrong with the compact package. It is part of the Heritage of Mesa boogie. A small package that delivers the goods expecting it to be a 20W if that and it turns out to be a 100W monster. That thing really boogies. Considering this company was started from a prank they pulled on someone by the name of Carlos Santana.

The Mark VII returned back to Mesa's roots in the compact size. that is about how large my Mark III combo was. The good thing is that you have plenty of room for your guitar and amp in any mode of transportation. I never had any issues with the Mark III in a band situation. Then again, that one had the EV black shadow speaker. Never knew the MC90 existed back then.

 

[electric mayhem]

the MC90 is a decent speaker in most respects. I much prefer something different. Just a hint on the MC90, do not use it in a closed back cab that is not ported. If you do that, the voice coil vent will become the pressure port as that screened port on the back of the magnet extends through the entire core of the speaker. If you do not believe me, shine a light from the back side of the speaker and loot at the front, you will see the light through the dust cap. MC90 is for open back or ported cab only.

Interesting. Since they sound great in the bottom of the halfback with 4x MC90 I assumed it was a great speaker for closed or open back forgetting about the bottom porting. Not many people hate the MC90 - I think it's a great universal speaker - 3 words that don't go together much. It does extremely well in the thiele designed for the12L.

From what you said it seems your issue with them is power handling. The next time you get a chance to grab a 4CB open back, a little smaller than a trad, or even the LS 4x12 grab it and you will not regret it. You will likely want a full stack if you do. At 360W I doubt you would blow any even in a closed back non-ported.

 

[Revelation]

From what you said it seems your issue with them is power handling. The next time you get a chance to grab a 4CB open back, a little smaller than a trad, or even the LS 4x12 grab it and you will not regret it. You will likely want a full stack if you do. At 360W I doubt you would blow any even in a closed back nonon-ported.

It seems with more people using digital boards like Kemper, Helix and Boss GT 1000, needing an amp to be loud and your monitor is not needed like the old days. Amps are many times off the stage in the back room to reduce volume on stage so the engineers wanting to mix the band with low volume on stage.

 

[electric mayhem]

It seems with more people using digital boards like Kemper, Helix and Boss GT 1000, needing an amp to be loud and your monitor is not needed like the old days. Amps are many times off the stage in the back room to reduce volume on stage so the engineers wanting to mix the band with low volume on stage.

I wouldn't know about digital boards. The high dollar pros likely use ear buds for monitors and ear plugs for decibels. Blasphemous I say but to each their own.

For your OP question if it was me and small footprint was key I would get the head atop a thiele. The MC90 one is universal, the 12L is better for me but too many people hate that driver to not try before buying. Either way you get the extended lows. You can EQ them out if you need to.

Imo you are just never gonna touch the feel and fill of a 4x12 with a 1x12. Is someone gonna ask Angus Young to put the amps in the back room? I would play through a thiele if it was all I had.

 

[bandit2013]

I sort of opted for the Boogie 4x10 with cream backs. I will not see that until Christmas. I bought it out of curiosity. If it sounds good, may have to get another for a micro full stack. It is only 23 inches wide and 24 inches tall. Will find out soon enough.

I did look at the lonestar 412, looks cool. Did not realize they were a compact 412.

 

[Revelation]

I wouldn't know about digital boards. The high dollar pros likely use ear buds for monitors and ear plugs for decibels. Blasphemous I say but to each their own.

For your OP question if it was me and small footprint was key I would get the head atop a thiele. The MC90 one is universal, the 12L is better for me but too many people hate that driver to not try before buying. Either way you get the extended lows. You can EQ them out if you need to.

Imo you are just never gonna touch the feel and fill of a 4x12 with a 1x12. Is someone gonna ask Angus Young to put the amps in the back room? I would play through a thiele if it was all I had.

I used to have a Carvin X 100 watt head with a 4x12 cabinet and your right. The big full sound you get...there is nothing like it. But at my age, I don't want lift the speaker cabinet up my basement stairs and into a vehicle. I got a Fender Twin with pedals when I want the fuller 2 x12 sound. But there is something special though different in a 1x12 that is just as good as 2x12. The reduced bass response tends to bring the top end forward, to the human ear as a result.

 

[electric mayhem]

I sort of opted for the Boogie 4x10 with cream backs. I will not see that until Christmas. I bought it out of curiosity. If it sounds good, may have to get another for a micro full stack. It is only 23 inches wide and 24 inches tall. Will find out soon enough.

I did look at the lonestar 412, looks cool. Did not realize they were a compact 412.

You'll have to let us know how that works out. I've got a full stack, one with the jensen P10R drivers, the other with the black painted alinicos that are also 20W and not sure the make. I've been curious about the creambacks.

I have the LS 412 and the 3/4 back 412. The 3/4 is now loaded with blues but the 4x mc90s sounded amazing.

 

[bandit2013]

I could imagine the open back 412 with the MC90 is awesome.

I am sort of exploring the guitar end of the spectrum. Just picked up two Epiphone Les Paul Customs, so far they feel and play great. Not one thing to complain about with those. I was overly impressed with the sound I was getting out of the Mark VII. So tempted to get the Epi BB King guitar. I do not have any semi-hollow guitar in my collection. It that instrument plays like the Epi LP it is a win. I no longer look down on the Epiphone brand, at least in the custom lineup. Got the Black and gold and a Koa and gold. The one in the middle is a Carvin CS6 I had for a few years. I like the Epis much better.

I will stick to the speaker thing, sorry to distract from the OP post. my bad. Oh yeah, that is the face plate from the JP2C that I had made by Mesa to match the cabinet. I still have the original faceplate so that is what is on the amp now. It almost fits right, a bit tight though.

 

[electric mayhem]

So tempted to get the Epi BB King guitar. I do not have any semi-hollow guitar in my collection. It that instrument plays like the Epi LP it is a win. I no longer look down on the Epiphone brand, at least in the custom lineup.

I went down that rabbit hole with Fender not long ago with the Coronado II, Coronado Bass, Modern Player (China) Starcaster, Classic Vibe Starcaster and Affinity Starcaster. Some people prefer the affinity but it doesn't work for me. For general playing I need more growl than the Coronado as nice as it is so the probably Japan version of wide range pickups on the MP Starcaster are perfect.

But if you don't care about the headstock name the Classic Vibe is a great alternative choice. Try one out at your local store. That one is going to go up in value when they stop making them. Not like a bass VI but they'll go up.

 

[bandit2013]

I would have to say the bargain Stratocaster I ever bought and liked was the Squire contemporary in blat black. It plays well and feels good. Unlike the MIM player strat I bought afterward, could not bond with it. Gave it to a friend at no cost. Fender Dave Murray Signature HHH was a keeper. Blocked bridge but I was able to correct it to get a slight float with a neck shim. It needed some minor fretwork and the finger board was rounded off and not sharp like the Fender player strat. I did swap the pickups out with some Zexcoil humbuckers I believe it was the Juicy set.

I did order some SD Saturday night Specials. I will use those in my two Carvin guitars. See if there is any improvement. If I like them, may end up replacing the pickups on the Epiphones. The Epi pickups are a bit bright but so is the Mark VII. I was able to correct the brightness with the tone controls without putting a blanket on the tone. All of my Charvels and EVH guitars are MIM. That does not bother me one bit. Noticed the EVH guitars have flamed maple necks, it hard to see on the Bumble but on the Wolfgang is more apparent as it has a roasted maple neck.

Sometimes you win at a fraction of the cost of a high dollar brand name. A decade ago (if not longer), most of the imports or off brand like Squire, Epiphone, and the like were just poorly made. If it had binding, there were gaps, fret sprout everywhere. Rough fret wire, etc. I had a bias on the off brands. I basically stuck with Carvin guitar but then they changed everything when the name changed over to Kiesel, now most of those with the same features I ordered in the past take the price higher than I am willing to pay.

It is good to see the quality and workmanship has come along way with some of the affordable off brands. Charvel, EVH, Epiphone. The only one lagging behind is the MIM Fenders. In the same plant they make the Charvel and EVH, why not improve on the instrument? I would love a Fender Strat that has either the EVH neck or Charvel neck. That would be a huge improvement. Instead they are sticking with the low cost construction methods that Leo Fender pioneered.

 

[bandit2013]

Sorry for the tangent. I will refrain from off toppic.

I will let you know if the Mesa Boogie open back 410 is worth the coin.

 

[Revelation]

Sorry for the tangent. I will refrain from off toppic.

I will let you know if the Mesa Boogie open back 410 is worth the coin.

When did 4x10 cabs for guitar amps take off? I always saw bass cabs having 4x10's and guitars having 4x12's for over 25 years. Any advantages with 4x10 cabs foe guitar's with the exception of weighing a little less over the 4x12 cabs?