Mark iic+ questions/spray from new owner

[Jarvoramas]

Hello

I bought an 80's New Zealand new , serial 127xx , SRGX iic+ combo a month or so ago and have been having some fun exploring it's sounds . I hadn't really heard one before but had read a lot about them on this forum and other darker places on the net and was really curious . One then came up for sale on a local auction site here in New Zealand and I snapped it up in a hurry . Scary really as it cost me $3000 for something I'd never heard . I bought it in a hurry as I was sure someone else would snap it up , and apparently there were others very keen to purchase the seller later told me , someone called him up to purchase just moments after I won the auction . Yay me . Good to know there's buyers out there if I don't get along with it .

So far so good though , I'm really enjoying the sounds , I do manage to continue getting a bit of flubby base when I play really fast ( think disposable heros , Metallica gallop ) which I haven't been able to completely dial out yet . Any suggestions for this ? Actually I'm sure this must have been covered somewhere , I'll have a look around . Incase someone has some suggestions though my settings for this type of playing is .

Lead channel

Vol 9
Treb pulled 7
Bass 1.75
Mid 4
Master depends but around 2 pulled
Lead drive 7
Lead vol min or sometimes balanced with the master
Presence around 4
Reverb 0

Eq is a shallow V with mids completely cut ( for home playing ) and the rest close to centre .

I'm running it mainly through a mesa 2x12 vert recto cab as well as the very violent black shadow combo speaker . I'm not sure of the tubes , I believe the power tubes are originals ! So I bought some
Jj's to try out to see if a fresher tube set made much difference and so far not really to my ear , although I do slightly prefer the originals . Hard for my trademans ears to tell and to be fair I haven't had it supper loud to really push the power tubes . I also bought a tungsol to try and a jj ecc83s and ecc83mg to try out in different positions but so far I think the tubes it came with sound better . Unfortunately the older tubes don't have readable print left on them ... I will be doing some research for some recommended tubes in the future .

My main question is can I slave this out to my triple rectifier ? Possibly into the parallel effects loop ?


My goal would be to get a blend of amp tones , I'm just curious really and looking to further experiment . I'm keen to get some dual amp sounds but don't really have much equipment/or experience at the moment to achieve this , hence hopefully this simple solution . The reason I'm looking at this is I know some bands blend different amp sounds but normally I'm guessing with far more complex rigs .


Two final questions , how does one identify what power transformer is on the amp ? I've read the 105's are the best ?

Also is there any way I can get this amp to respond as fast as my line 6 modelling tube amp . By this I mean my modelling amp has a fantastic response to my playing like its anticipating my pick and has the sound ready to explode almost before I play it . The mesa on the other hand has the slightest of delays in response and makes me feel a bit clumsy/slow in comparison when playing fast stuff like master of puppets for eg . Perhaps this is common ? I'm using an emg 81 at the moment . Is this just how it is with tube amps ? I find the same thing with the triple too .

Thanks for any help . Sorry if my post isn't very clear , I'm not much of a writer .

Jason .

Ps also loving the cleans and reverb . For some reference I've been playing around 13 years mainly pearl jam rock type stuff . But lately I'm on a quest to get some of the Metallica back catalog dialled , I'm really loving the gymnastic challenge of playing the heavy fast rhythms .

Figured out the photo thing :roll:

 

[tony777]

Congrats with your new amp.
As far as settings, if you turn your volume 1 all up to nine, you would expect some flubbing. turn it down to 7 and increase your treble to 8 and lead drive a bit up to compensate.
By all means experiment, the amp will grow on you.
If the filter caps are original they are most likely ready to be replaced, and you will experiment the amp to be tighter and more present. These amps are almost 30 years old and filter caps is ready for replacement after 10 years or so, they will work but fresh ones will sound better.

As far as slaving into to the triple recto, I guess it can be done as long as the amp has a load at the speaker output.

The 105 transformer is only present in the 117 Volts versions of hundred and simul class amps. Yours is a sixty and the transformer is most likely a X62. (X for export)

The most recommended tubes for the power sections will be Mesa STR415, other ones will say winged C as a second.
For preamp, you will need to play around. I use the Mesa 12ax7 and love them, but you will find people on this board that hate them.

What you mention about fast response, I have nothing to add other than these amps are absolutely NOT forgiving, they sound what you play, but it makes you a better player ;-)
To me I appreciate the dynamics they provide and couldn't play anything else because it doesn't feel right.

Long answer, if you read all this go back to playing ;-)

 

[Jarvoramas]

Thank you sir .

I will try out your vol treb ideas . The settings I got were direct from the master of puppets recording with some slight volume modification ...

The amp went in for servicing before I bought it to a local expert and was given the all clear , caps were mentioned to be ok , hopefully that is the actual case .

In regards to the slaving . I will research this now that I have some terms/a starting point thank you . You mention having a load at the speaker out ( don't worry I will research this further too ) but does that mean that the rectifier will need to be hooked to a speaker , is that what you are referring to ? Or that it needs to be drawing from the mesa perhaps ..

Thanks for the transformer info , I will be able to re read through the iic+ for dummy's now slightly less qualified :mrgreen:

I have read that previously about tubes and feel the mesa ones are likely my cup of tea .

I'm also loving the dynamics of this amp , feels amazing . I get into some truly great sweet spots and it's only when playing really fast stuff I start having issues , hopefully it's my technique . But I am worried it's a tube amp vs digital thing . I will try get some more time in on different amps to get a better feel of things . My experience is pretty limited and I've never really thought about how things feel or truly sound before . One could say buying this amp has opened my eyes .

Thanks for your response Tony .

 

[tony777]

About slaving, all tube amps need a load, it doesn't matter which way you hook up. But I might have misunderstood you in which way you wanted to connect things. Are you planning to use the recto in addition to the IIC+ of stereo purpose?
If that's the case, both amps are connected to a speaker and you're fine.

I though you wanted to use the preamp of one amp and the power section of another, if that's the case, the one which is not connected to a speaker needs to be connected to a load. (THD hot plate or similar)

Hope that answers your question.

Enjoy you're amp.

Don't hesitate to post pictures or gut shots if you have of your amp. There are experts on this forum that will be able to tell you more than you would ever believe you wanted to know about the amp.

 

[Jarvoramas]

With a complete lack of understanding I was hoping to do something simple like this .

Guitar into iic+ - slave out - into triple rectifier effects return - speaker cab .

I've just realised there would be nothing going through the front of the triple , and that it's likely a pipe dream ... I was hoping to get the pre amp sounds of both amps , blended through one speaker cab . I have no real reason to use the power section of the triple .

I don't currently have much understanding of stereo setups and such as I'm just starting to look into it .

The other idea I was looking into was splitting the initial guitar signal then running separately into both heads into there own speakers . Only I don't have anything to split the signal at the moment , I did look into a few different splitters and found two good ones . I don't remember the brands off hand ( I'll search when I have a bit more time ) but there seemed to be two at the top of the simple ish ( around $200 ) splitter pile . I've read that you can just use a pedal that has a stereo out too but don't currently have one . Although I am considering getting a tc electronic looper + x2 which looks to have a stereo out .

I have a bit of trouble conceptualising these things without it in front of me unfortunately . But I will do my due diligence before risking my amps to possible dodgy setups .

As far as pics go I will get some up , I look forward to having someone appreciate this thing as most people I know glaze over as soon as i start talking about gear ... Unfortunately I'm at work at the moment , working through the night to pay this thing off ! The previous owner had pics up of the internals so I will try get hold of those as I'm not comfortable opening it up at the moment . But I can do some face shots . It looks tidier than I do for being 30 odd years old ...

 

[tony777]

Guitar into iic+ - slave out - into triple rectifier effects return - speaker cab .

If you connect them like this you will use the power section of both amps, and no preamp of the recto. Then the recto needs to be connected to a speaker as well as the C+.

What I guess would be good is splitting the guitar signal before both amps, then connect them after both effect sends then you would have both preamps in parallel, into one power section. You need some kind of splitter and combiner device for this though.

 

[Jarvoramas]

Cool ideas , I'm doing some heavy research when I can . I'm finding it a little hard to find simple ideas or many walk throughs for that matter .

I can't get the pics up yet , I think I need to have them hosted somewhere first . Another thing to learn .

I played around with your setting ideas , and could get rid of some/most of the flub I was experiencing but not without losing some of the other characteristics I've been enjoying . I will continue with this . I'm finding the speaker sounds very different depending on where its pointed face vs chest vs just to the side , which is also making it tricky to dial . No rush with this I'm enjoy working through the sounds . I'm finding it very easy to get nice gritty cleans and rock rhythms and love it when it all comes together and I have a nice creamy liquid lead tone .

 

[Jarvoramas]

The Lehle LITTLE DUAL SGoS Splitter Switcher A/B/Both Box

And

Radial Engineering Twin-City Bones ABY Amp Switcher/Selector Pedal

Are the pedals I was looking at for running two amps . I'm leaning towards the radial one as it's cheaper and I believe it has more signal coming out the back ... The lehle one looks very well put together though . Anyway still research to do before spending more money .

So much to learn so little time .

 

[dodger916]

It looks like the caps are dated 1984. One benefit of new caps is tighter bass, so although they might look fine and be in spec, it doesn't mean the tone has not degraded. 30 years is a long time for electrolytic caps. I'd have them replaced.

 

[Elpelotero]

If you have a Mesa 4x12, you can plug one amp into each side of the speakers because they are stereo amps, so recto is powering a 2x12, and the C+ another 2x12. That's how I do it at home and it sounds amazing. Best tone ever.

 

[Jarvoramas]

I'll get on to getting new caps then , thanks for the suggestion . I guess I should order them from Mesa .

And

I can imagine it's a nice blend having those two heads together through the quad .

I ended up selling the triple rec without getting to hear it with the mark ... It's a shame too , I bought two explorers that came up for sale on my local auction site Trademe . So had to sell some gear -the TR- I got to try an explorer with the triple and it sounded great , where previously I hadn't been getting the sounds I had wanted out of the amp . I think the loan guitar I had been using (an ltd 400 or something - waiting on a custom eclipse , long story...) was just too plain sounding ! Not enough guts maybe ? But the stock explorer broke through with its character and sounded great ... Couldn't go back on the sale of the amp though , but I likely would have .

The explorers are a 1990 which has been recently refinished and is not that easy to play with two hard wired 90s emg 81s and black hardware . I was a bit disappointed when it arrived as the finish along the junction of neck to finger board was a bit rough . Also the action was highish and it played slow , but it has potential . I've taken it to a luthier - the first time I have done this - and he was confident it will be fine after some work , I was really impressed with him upfront and can't wait to see his work . He is also moving the pickup selector switch to/replacing a volume knob and I have ordered a rusty pickguard ... This guitar is going to get a James Hetfield esq makeover . The previous owner mentioned the body was one piece which is nice to know , the current finish is a shiny black so I might change it to a thin matte black if it ends up a keeper .

Here's a photo from the auction .

The second explorer is a 94 , stock and barely played ( sat in a case for 5 years the frets look new ) The luthier is also setting up this one to something a bit easier to play - the intonation was out , it had an earth buzz and some tuning instability . I have high hopes for it though and look forward to seeing how it plays/sounds when I get it back . I was impressed with the stock gibson humbuckers they will be staying for a while .

Paid $1100 for each and the luthier will cost $300 , a new explorer in New Zealand is about $2600 , so hopefully it works out .

I'm on a new and somewhat expensive path it seems now but really enjoying hunting ... The Tone .

Sorry to go so far off topic but not sure it's worth starting a new page . Not sure this is interesting to anyone either but me :?