Diezel VH4 versus Mesa gear

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If you back down the master, and compensate with the output knob, the Dual Rectifier becomes a little less fizzy IMHO. With my Roadster, I never need a boost pedal. I only use it for certain applications, but not always with every chugga chugga riffs...
 
KH Guitar Freak said:
If you back down the master, and compensate with the output knob, the Dual Rectifier becomes a little less fizzy IMHO. With my Roadster, I never need a boost pedal. I only use it for certain applications, but not always with every chugga chugga riffs...

I never had a problem dialing in the proper tones (esp. with The Roadster). The gain was always between 12 and 2 o'clock on CH3 and the tone controls were pretty "good" for a RECTO (search my posts regarding recto settings) just not "good" enough for me. I preferred the loop to be off (for tone reasons), but I usually had the power section boosted higher than the preamp master when I did run EQ effects. Towards the end of my love affair with the RECTO, I became bored and really sick of the "popular" RECTO fizz and lack of real tightness and sustain (hence the boost). In the end, I felt that the RECTO sound took more away than it added with regards to my music and that's when I decided to move on to another amp sound settling down, for now, with the TRIAXIS/2:Ninety, Mark V, and Hughes & Kettner Triamp MKII.

Again, the VH4 is perfect if you're a big-time staccato riffer with money in the bank and loads of gear just sitting around because you're too bored with their sounds. However, when all things are considered, the Mark V (when dialed in properly) will give you loads more character and tone while retaining the tightness and precision of your playing style for half of the price. Don't get me wrong here, Diezel is a fantastic company with superior customer service. But as a player, the VH4 is more of an addition than it is a necessity with regards to studio or even live workhorse applications. It's not a one trick pony by any means, but I feel the Herbert is more suited for those purposes than the VH4 when it comes to Diezel's line of amps (with regards to the metal genre...which is the particular genre I surmise that we are discussing here).

Just my ¢2.
 
KH Guitar Freak said:
If you back down the master, and compensate with the output knob, the Dual Rectifier becomes a little less fizzy IMHO. With my Roadster, I never need a boost pedal. I only use it for certain applications, but not always with every chugga chugga riffs...

I don't like to play mesas with Output knobs unless the Output is at noon. Even if you're just cracking the channel masters open it still sounds better. 6L6s are smooth baby ;)


I spent some time with a Herbert and I honestly walked away unimpressed. I would take a Roadster and a $1000 over it, any day of the week. I've never played any other Diezel amps.
 
MesaGod666 said:
Again, the VH4 is perfect if you're a big-time staccato riffer with money in the bank and loads of gear just sitting around because you're too bored with their sounds. However, when all things are considered, the Mark V (when dialed in properly) will give you loads more character and tone while retaining the tightness and precision of your playing style for half of the price. Don't get me wrong here, Diezel is a fantastic company with superior customer service. But as a player, the VH4 is more of an addition than it is a necessity with regards to studio or even live workhorse applications. It's not a one trick pony by any means, but I feel the Herbert is more suited for those purposes than the VH4 when it comes to Diezel's line of amps (with regards to the metal genre...which is the particular genre I surmise that we are discussing here).

Just my ¢2.
+1

However, I've heard horror stories about customer service that I haven't heard about Mesa. Maybe your experience has been otherwise, but there are far too many bad reviews from HC for me to believe it's all garbage - not to mention they're not there for Mesa.
 
TheMagicEight said:
+1

However, I've heard horror stories about customer service that I haven't heard about Mesa. Maybe your experience has been otherwise, but there are far too many bad reviews from HC for me to believe it's all garbage - not to mention they're not there for Mesa.

Yeah...as far as I know, that was before they had established a presence in the US. I have several friends that have had issues with their Diezel (VH4 and Herbert) and the rep, Jason or Jeremy (can't remember the guys name), took very good care of them. As far as I know, the warrenty work is top notch, but the people who complain about these amps don't realize that they are wired directly and not with PC board (like a MESA) and they are NOT fixed bias (unlike MESA). With direct wiring, the biasing needs to be spot on and it needs to be checked monthly because if you haul a VH4 around on tour or just haul it around period, the bias pot is more likely to move around and that will create major problems (tube blow outs, transformer issues, diode issues, etc.), but that's the price you pay for the Diezel tone. Most of those HC complaints are just plain stupid because most of those people had no business owning an amp like that anyway. It's like buying a Porsche 997 and complaining about expensive parts and maintenance costs.

I spoke with Diezel's rep at length behind their HERBERT and VH4 models and I can tell you that they're 100% legit. When the economy turns around, and I'm making the $$$$$$ that I once was, the VH4S is the next addition.
 
The VH4S has been my main amp since March '05. No problems so far...knock on wood :)

Martin
 
first of all, i live in germany at the diezel factory isn´t that far away from my hometown....so i can drive down to peter diezel within 1 1/2 hours.
and we did it...why? our other guitarplayer in the band uses a Herbert and he always said, that he couldn´t hear himself while we are playing. (i´m using a dual recto 3channel and a roadster head in stereo application)

don´t get me wrong, the herbert is a cool sounding amp, but as said before the diezel amps have a lot of compression....and this is the reason why he didn´t cut through the bandmix.
so we talked to peter diezel and he did a few modifications to the amp, and said now the herbert would be like he builds it at the moment. we played the amp and i still had the feeling, that the amp was to compressed.
i told peter he should even make it sounding a lot more "open"...he said, but that´s the way he likes his amps to sound like.
no problem, everybody has it´s own taste.
but peter is a very kind person and he said, if you want it to sound more opened up, i´ll do it....changed a few things and it was way better. but still not enough for my taste (remember playing a roadster set to vintage for the most of the time)...he finally said, o.k. here is a resistor which is responsible for the compression, i do unsolder it on one side, you guys play and i put it on and off and after a while you tell me how you want it....
my friend and i had the same feeling, we like it better without the resistor...a more opened up sound.

so peter did it.
and btw. he changed the powertubes back form KT88 to EL34s. the KT88 didn´t last long, so he gave my friend a new set of EL34s and didn´t charge him money for them - really cool.

after all the messing around with the herbert, i asked peter to hook up one of those VH4s to do some testdrive on it.
i love the clean tone of this amp, it´s awesome, the second channel is really marshall like tone and channel 3 and 4 were really highgain. did anybody ever need so much gain as channel for delivers? i think not, but it´s cool to have it.
like it is with cars, you don´t need 200 hp to drive around in the city but it´s good to have it and it feels good when the lights go from red to green. :)

over all, the VH4 is a nice sounding amp, but if i buy one someday peter has to modify it a bit and give it a more opened up sound, like he did it with the herbert of my friend.
and guess what, since this visit at the diezel factory my friend is really happy with his herbert and never complained about not hearing himself anymore.
so if you can modify the diezel to not sound as compressed as they do fresh from the factory, the cut through very well.
and btw. over here the VH4, herbert and roadster are all at the same pricerange +/- a few euros.


here is a nice demo vid of the VH4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDmor0M39Fs
 
Hi, I love Diezel amps and I want to buy one in the future, but now I've a Mesa Dual Rectifier, but I'm not really satisfied by the sound and the definition. Could you give me some advise to obtain a Tool like sound? Thanks a lot.
 
Cool thread.

I always wondered why when I'd see a Diezel in a live rig it was usually only in a multi-amp rig, and now I guess it sort of makes sense.
 
screamingdaisy said:
Cool thread.

I always wondered why when I'd see a Diezel in a live rig it was usually only in a multi-amp rig, and now I guess it sort of makes sense.

I just love dual amp stereo set up. When I had a Single Rec, I would put it with the MKV to bring in the complimentary chainsaw tone. Something to be said for the width and different amp voicings. I got a Rivera Knuck Tre to take the place of the Rectifier, still a new metal amp with a little different voicing, sounds more like a Roadster to me, not exactly though, so it goes well with Mark voicing or SLO.

I have looked at Diezels. A Herbert they had a GC for a month or so. Hit it a few times. Nice amp. A fat coin though. It was great but not that great. I would rather get a Fortin or a Cameron, or even a Splawn Quick Rod for half the price.
 
screamingdaisy said:
Cool thread.

I always wondered why when I'd see a Diezel in a live rig it was usually only in a multi-amp rig, and now I guess it sort of makes sense.

I just love dual amp stereo set up. When I had a Single Rec, I would put it with the MKV to bring in the complimentary chainsaw tone. Something to be said for the width and different amp voicings. I got a Rivera Knuck Tre to take the place of the Rectifier, still a new metal amp with a little different voicing, sounds more like a Roadster to me, not exactly though, so it goes well with Mark voicing or SLO.

I have looked at Diezels. A Herbert they had a GC for a month or so. Hit it a few times. Nice amp. A fat coin though. It was great but not that great. I would rather get a Fortin or a Cameron, or even a Splawn Quick Rod for half the price.
 
I do find it interesting that nobody else has mentioned the Diezel Einstein in this thread.
Personally, I love the great sounds that I can achieve out of my Einstein in all 3 modes of channel 1 and the lead channel of 2. I am especially impressed with the "hot rodded marshall" sound that I obtain out of the 3rd mode of channel 1 and of course the fantastic hi gain lead sound I obtain out of channel 2 with this amp!

However, my "Go to Amp" is the MkV as I am able to achieve a nice variety of excellent clean, crunch and lead sounds with footswitchable GEQ, reverb, solo boost, etc. for live situations with my guitar plugged directly into this amp! I am in hog heaven with the V for my needs.

While, I don't play my Diezel Einstein live (mainly due to footswitchability limitations of a 2 channel amp).....I do absolutely love the tones I can achieve out of this amp as well! Put it this way....I have no intentions of selling the Einstein!

I cannot speak one way or the other of the VH4 or Hebert because I have never had the opportunity to play through either. I suspect that I would like them, but not the price....especially in the US.
 
MBJunkie said:
I do find it interesting that nobody else has mentioned the Diezel Einstein in this thread.
Personally, I love the great sounds that I can achieve out of my Einstein in all 3 modes of channel 1 and the lead channel of 2. I am especially impressed with the "hot rodded marshall" sound that I obtain out of the 3rd mode of channel 1 and of course the fantastic hi gain lead sound I obtain out of channel 2 with this amp!

However, my "Go to Amp" is the MkV as I am able to achieve a nice variety of excellent clean, crunch and lead sounds with footswitchable GEQ, reverb, solo boost, etc. for live situations with my guitar plugged directly into this amp! I am in hog heaven with the V for my needs.

While, I don't play my Diezel Einstein live (mainly due to footswitchability limitations of a 2 channel amp).....I do absolutely love the tones I can achieve out of this amp as well! Put it this way....I have no intentions of selling the Einstein!

I cannot speak one way or the other of the VH4 or Hebert because I have never had the opportunity to play through either. I suspect that I would like them, but not the price....especially in the US.
I owned an Einstein combo. I sold it because I was trying to get the 4x12 sound out of a 1x12, but apart from that, it was an amazing amp! Honestly, I'd say it was a bit better than the VH4 if you're into a more "organic" sound, and you're right, that ch.1 mode 3 is really, really good!
 
mental projection said:
Hi, I love Diezel amps and I want to buy one in the future, but now I've a Mesa Dual Rectifier, but I'm not really satisfied by the sound and the definition. Could you give me some advise to obtain a Tool like sound? Thanks a lot.

The subject of the gear used by Tool has more misinformation on the web than can be imagined. If you really want to know pay little attention to people like me and go see what people like Dave Friedman and John Ziegler, etc say about it.

He has used a number of amps in the studio and only the Marshall, two channel Triple Rectifier and VH4 live. Always the Marshall, sometimes one or both of the others depending on the time period.

Plug into a old Marshall Super Bass or any of the Marshall's from that era with no master volume. This has always been the main part of his sound. I believe Ænima and everything before it is only the Super Bass and nothing else, heres why ....

"Postby John Ziegler » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:23 pm
fwiw, adam jones' '75 marshall super bass is stock(friedman just services it)....and it was the sole amp used on tool stuff up through aemina.
and it's still his main amp to this day. the boogie and diezel are just to add to the frey.
adam does NO channel switching whatsoever on any amps.
(a perfect circle)billy howerdel's marshalls were modded by friedman...basically with what dave calls the "naked" mod.
also no channel switching is done i do believe.
if you have the "right" sounding amp, all that you need is a volume knob, end of story!"

:idea: :arrow: :?: That is what he said about this. To clarify the thread was about using the volume knob on the guitar, not Tool.

Adams sound has changed a lot over the years ...... the one thing that always stands out is he likes a lot of midrange and I mean a lot. He does not use much preamp distortion and turns up the power amp to get that sound. They play at a volume I would call "stupid loud" on stage and in the studio.

On his DR he used the orange channel and the volume on his guitar a lot to get different sounds. He never changes channels on any of his amps when playing live as far as I can tell.
 
I got to play a Diezel VH4 on the last tour in a Guitar Center in Phoenix. It was one of the clearest amps I have ever heard. LOUD too. Played it through only a Recto 2x12" and it sounded like it was a full stack. I hope to own one of those one day, but...right now, I'm happy with my Recto and Peavey.......for now :twisted:

-AJH
 
MesaGod666 said:
I don't know what MESA did to the Roadster model, but it sounds 1000000 times better than any other standard recto

until playing it in a band mix, then it lends itself to being a bit typical sounding, and a bit lost in the mix compared to the recto, which sounds more powerful and better in a live mix than **** near anything.
 
volatileNoise said:
MesaGod666 said:
I don't know what MESA did to the Roadster model, but it sounds 1000000 times better than any other standard recto

until playing it in a band mix, then it lends itself to being a bit typical sounding, and a bit lost in the mix compared to the recto, which sounds more powerful and better in a live mix than **** near anything.
Which Roadster did you hear?
 
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