Back to controlling the loudness topic

[YellowJacket]

The best solution I've found to reducing volume without compromising tone, is power scaling. I use a kit version from London Power. Got my tech to install it in my Boogie Studio 22.
It's not perfect. Once you get it below a certain level, you won't be able to achieve a totally clean sound, but if you play really heavy stuff, that may not bother you.
I use my little Boogie at cafe levels, and I can now finally turn it up above 2 on the master.
When I first used it, I complained to my amp tech that it was distorting when turned down low. His reply was "come on, be fair, you're running at around 2 watts output at that level!"
Its not a bedroom level solution, but for low volume gigs and jams, its worth its weight in gold.

Power Scaling is basically a knob to dial in clipping into the power amp. (Hence the distortion starting as you turn down the wattage for the power tubes) It is an absolutely amazing invention for an amp like a JCM800 where you want to get the power tubes involved in the action. I think in the case of something like an Electra Dyne, where the preamp makes the tone, speaker excursion is the real issue. I'd like to try power scaling but if I do, I don't want to carve up a $2,000 head. Currently, I'm super pumped with my amp so I'm inclined to leave it as is. This approach is much easier on the wallet

I hope switching the speaker solves your woes. I have not forgotten all the $$$s I sunk into my recto trying to make it something else, something that wasn't even available at the time. It was a miserable existence.

I wouldn't call them woes... woes would be me trying to get a tone out of the amp that just isn't there. The tone is there for me... in fact the more I play and tweak the better it is. The only thing I'm trying to do is make that master usable i.e. not going from super quiet to stage level while barely moving the knob.

If all else fails, I'm in the process of redoing my entire upstairs (2 bedrooms... its a cape style)... i will just frame out a closet that I will sound proof the sh!t out of which will allow me to play at whatever level I want. But I don't think I'll have to go to those lengths... while the speaker change will be a small difference, I already know stepping down the signal in the FX loop actually works well for what I'm after. Again I'm not looking to be able to crank the power amp, just be able to get the master to wear the speaker sounds full but my floors aren't rattling.

Definitely sounds like a sound reflection / speaker excursion problem.

 

[jdurso]

I haven't yet tried the c90 in the ED (too much work, not enough play lately) but I just spent the last hour really tweaking the amp and like others have mentioned the Mid and Bass knob play a huge part in the overall feel and IMO loudness of the amp. Again, it may not be an actual reduction in dBs but filtering out a lot of bass and mids, while bumping the highs plays a huge difference in the percieved loudness (i.e. the floor isn't shaking, windows aren't rattling). Right now my settings look something like this: Treble 2, Mid 9, Bass 9, Presence 1, Volume 2, Master 8:30. This is giving me pretty spectacular tones all the way from bedroom level to stage volume and everything in between. Obviously as I get closer to about 9:30-10 the amp really opens up and gets that creamy compressed tone, especially on Lo and Hi but to me thats to be expected when the amp is at stage levels.

One thing I'm blown away with is even with two boosts infront of all three channels, I have almost no need for my noise suppressor. Basically what I'm doing is stacking the OCD (pretty much as a clean boost) into the BB preamp (slightly dirty clean boost) and then into the front of the amp. The lead tone is out of this world. Thicker but with the same compressed creamy tone as a Mark IV but with the girth of a Recto... Even with no boost at all I think these are some of the best lead tones I've ever attained. I always found the Recto leads to be too saggy, not enough note definition and the Mark lead tone to be a tad too thin and lack definition a level of string definition. The best part of all this (aside from the pick sensitivity which still brings a smile to my face) is the gain trim for the clean channel keeps the cleans sqeaky clean the way I like them (not a fan of rolling back the volume on my guitar). Even at stage levels the clean channel retains its headroom and seems to add a bit of sparkle to the tone which I absolutely LOVE!

Up next I'm putting the AXE-FX in the loop to see if I can drop the line level going into the power amp and see if I can throttle the master a little more because when the master gets above 9 o'clock this amp sings like a canary.

 

[jdurso]

One more thing... while I do miss my Roadster at times (more sentimental value than anything), this amp can most certainly chug with the right guitar and a clean boost. I find it funny that the chug tone I primarily used on my Roadster is pretty much there in the ED. While its a little more stiff, I never really dialed my Roadster in with a lot of gain or a lot of sag. Adding in the OCD ontop of the Hi or even Lo channels gets me pretty **** close to what I used on Channel 4 Modern on the Roadster. At some point I'll probably add the Wampler Triplewreck to my pedal board just in case I get in the mood for some all out trash but **** is there something the ED can't do with a little bit of help????

 

[screamingdaisy]

Even with no boost at all I think these are some of the best lead tones I've ever attained. I always found the Recto leads to be too saggy, not enough note definition and the Mark lead tone to be a tad too thin and lack definition a level of string definition.

For the most part I have to agree... although for me it's that the Recto doesn't sing or sustain the way a Mark does, and I actually really like the Mark's lead tone but I don't use my rhythm settings for lead (rhythm tones on lead do sound kind of thin IMO).

But, on topic... the ED is the first amp I've ever owned where I've actually been impressed when I step on an overdrive. I've found OD's really underwhelming with most other amps I've owned. Boosting my ED is like hitting the nitro button. There's an actual power to the notes. The amp is dirty enough that an OD blends with it but it still has enough headroom in the preamp that an OD produces a substantial effect.

I find it funny that the chug tone I primarily used on my Roadster is pretty much there in the ED.

I've been saying that since I got my ED but you're the first person who's echoed my sentiments. I was starting to think I was hearing things... it's nice to have someone else who thinks the same thing.

 

[YellowJacket]

One more thing... while I do miss my Roadster at times (more sentimental value than anything), this amp can most certainly chug with the right guitar and a clean boost. I find it funny that the chug tone I primarily used on my Roadster is pretty much there in the ED. While its a little more stiff, I never really dialed my Roadster in with a lot of gain or a lot of sag. Adding in the OCD ontop of the Hi or even Lo channels gets me pretty **** close to what I used on Channel 4 Modern on the Roadster. At some point I'll probably add the Wampler Triplewreck to my pedal board just in case I get in the mood for some all out trash but **** is there something the ED can't do with a little bit of help????

Suck. Well, the amp can do that too but it requires a bad guitarist. It is an honest amplifier to say the least, but man is it also musical!!

I noticed that by turning up the Presence and Treble, as well as scooping the mids, the amp really gets into more of the Recto type voices. Just need to set on 90 watts for the horsepower!! I think it is because the mids also affect the low treble as well as the mid voice in general. For some reason, the treble and mids are both extremely powerful tone shaping tools and trying many different EQ settings can cop totally different feels / vibes. The other fun thing is to play with the Presence. The Presence changes the negative feedback in the amp so to get that balls wide open modern recto type vibe, one just has to dial in ample Presence. It gets that same ear razoring high end as the Recto with these settings but with this vintage warmth and sauce which is nice!

 

[Assumer]

Any chance a different Master pot would help. I remember people putting a different master with a more gradual pot on the Fender hot rod before fender did it on the HR3.

 

[jnoel64]

I have used a hotplate in the past and hated what it did to my tone. I wound up selling it on eBay. With my Dyne, I use a rack effects unit and use its volume to control the overall volume. It doesn't change the tone at all. I can do bedroom volume and anything above. The best part for me is the fact that my effects unit has an actual volume knob, so I have a wide range of volumes to play with.

 

[jnoel64]

On another note, I have spent hours tweaking my RK1, and have come to the conclusion that my Dyne is not only much simpler to adjust and find what I want, but it simply KILLS any setting I can get on the RK1. That makes no sense to me, but ultimately it's all subjective. I add an Xotic BB to the Dyne, and I get 3 more modes. My next idea is to A/B the RK1 and the Dyne. The RK1 sounds killer with single coils but seems sterile with humbuckers. While the Dyne shines with anything I throw at it. Switching to EL34s in the power section and a 5751 for the clean mode was the ultimate game changer for me. There is nothing my Dyne can't handle for the genre I do. The bottom end on the Dyne is the richest tone I have ever had. I have a very difficult time deciding when to stop playing when I'm using the Dyne. Ear fatigue seems to be non-existent! I have noticed, though, that cranking the master past 11 o'clock really opens the amp up. That's where the Dyne truly blossoms. Sadly, though, even with the effects rack cranked low, it's not the same. The Dyne really does sound best when it's at concert level.

 

[YellowJacket]

Yup, the Electra Dyne is loud. Lately I've just decided that the cheapest solution is a pack of ear plugs for $10. AND, be sure to rehearse / gig regularly!

 

[Analog Kid]

...ear plugs for everyone in a two mile radius= more $ than a sailboat with a generator in the south pacific.
Dunno, it's a toss up if you live in an area with a population. Of people that is.

 

[YellowJacket]

Seriously, how much do you guys crank this thing up!?

 

[ryjan]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
No kidding. I've played an ED a couple times and one of the impressions I walked away with was that it sounded really, really good at reasonable volumes.

 

[Assumer]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
No kidding. I've played an ED a couple times and one of the impressions I walked away with was that it sounded really, really good at reasonable volumes.

I agree. I can get a great sound with the master pretty low.

 

[YellowJacket]

For sure! Sounds great with low settings and only gets better as you crank 'er up! It gets LOUD so fast though, particularly through a 4 x 12. The 1 x 12 is better for lower volumes.

 

[elvis]

I crank mine. It feels a little anemic at low volumes. My MR is better for quiet, it has more preamp gain. But even that I crank a bit.

 

[YellowJacket]

A large part of the constricted low volume tone is due to limited speaker excursion. There is just a certain amount of volume necessary to get a guitar loud speaker to really open up in tone. There is no way around this, unfortunately.

The Electra Dyne also changes in character as the master goes up. Some like it, some hate it.

 

[jnoel64]

I love my Dyne at any volume. Louder can sometimes be more fun, especially with a drummer who thinks he can drown out everyone.... :mrgreen:

 

[elvis]

God help the drummer who goes up against a Dyne...

 

[YellowJacket]

The Electra Dyne can be turned down but if it is a volume war the drummer wants, he's in TROUBLE! :lol:

 

[Analog Kid]

Sounds good at low volumes... Sounds better loud, and when you open it up hits like the hammer of the gods.