Is an upgraded c+ a legit c+?

Someone sent me a message on reverb.com about a listing I have for an upgraded c+ HRG. He's trying to tell me it's not a c+. I told him to ask Mike B. if it's a c+ since Mike's the one that puts the plus mark on the upgrades. What do you guys think?

xdg999 said:

Someone sent me a message on reverb.com about a listing I have for an upgraded c+ HRG. He's trying to tell me it's not a c+. I told him to ask Mike B. if it's a c+ since Mike's the one that puts the plus mark on the upgrades. What do you guys think?

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Sounds like they are just trying to get you to come off your price, because that is the most idiotic statement that he could have said. (mind you that is if it is an actual upgrade, someone could have just put a plus on it......easy way to find out, as Mesa Boogie, as far as I know, keeps immaculate records on their in house upgrades, they sure were able to tell me the date of manufacture on the Mark V I bought used). Your statement telling him to ask Mike B. Sounds spot on.

If someone is questioning it, produce the service paperwork and / or do the loop test and put it to bed.

We all know factory C+ are "worth" more, even though there's no more difference in tone than there is just between amp to amp.

This is just me but if I were to be buying a Mark IIC+ and the amp I was buying was not an original IIC+ then I wouldn't want to pay top dollar for it regardless who done the mods.

Casey

I'm going to disagree and say that if Mike B performed the upgrade, then it's legit.

Ultimately you're arguing over stuff that doesn't matter. I'ts a guitar amp. It makes sound. If it makes the sound you're after, what more do you want?

Leave the cork sniffing to the wine tasters. Use your gear for what it was meant for.

There's definitely differences between the upgrades and the factory c+'s. And depending on your taste and playing style an upgrade might be a better fit. I actually prefer the upgrades. Does a c+ have to have the 105 transformer to be a true c+? What about the 60 watters, exports and coliseums? The factory c+'s will always be worth more but I think the upgrades are just as worthy. Wasn't the first c+ prototype an upgraded IIc?

This is only one data point. I ordered a IIC HR in 84, Mike B upgraded to a + in 2017. It was a much different amp after that

FWIW I was recently up at Mesa and spent some time with Mike B. At one point we did compare my upgraded IIC+ to their in-house original IIC+ using an EVM12 open back cab. I am sure there are better "tuned ears" around these parts, but neither of us couldn't tell any perceptible difference in tone between them.

There's a much bigger difference in power sections, what tubes you're using, even what transformer you have vs. whether it was an original or an upgrade.

In my case they are actually the original 415s with the 100 transformer. This was certainly not an exhaustive comparison but was expecting more of an obvious difference and a bit surprised there wasn't.

xdg999 said:

Someone sent me a message on reverb.com about a listing I have for an upgraded c+ HRG. He's trying to tell me it's not a c+. I told him to ask Mike B. if it's a c+ since Mike's the one that puts the plus mark on the upgrades. What do you guys think?

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Yes. An upgraded C+ is a legit C+. All 'factory C+s' were IIC circuit boards that had the + mod done to them on the production line. End of discussion.

However, it gets a bit more complicated. Basically if it has an SP11 or RP11 board it's 100% identical to a factory C+ regardless of when this mod was done. End of story. These were the later Cs.

If it has an SP10 or RP10 board it's not 100% identical to a 'factory' C+. These were the earlier Cs. From a schematic point it's identical after having the + mod done and will sound pretty much the same, but it is not 100% identical as it used a different circuit board. Some people think this isn't worth as much as the 'factory' C+s - I can't comment on that as a vintage amp is basically worth what someone is willing to pay.

The SP10/RP10 boards were what the original + mod was done to before Mesa developed the SP11/RP11 boards so go figure what is the 'true' C+ is....

Either way people seem to think a 'factory' C+ with a 105 transformer is the ONLY legit C+. Go f*** yourselves You don't deserve one. There were loads of transformer combinations used even for the SP10/RP10s and SP11/RP11 depending on what spec (S, H or D - Sixty Watt, Hundred Watt or Simulclass) and they are all 'legit' C+s.

It is what it is... an upgraded MKIIC. Nothing more... Nothing less. Yes, It is a legit C+ after factory modification. If someone wants a factory original C+ with a serial number between about #12500 thru 14000 with the proper factory stamped pcbs... tell them to go buy one. Simple. And the factory original amps sell for more than the upgrades. More so due to the collectibility factor.

They all sound and feel different but I like them all. Don't tell anyone but I probably like my III+'s better.