Not satisfied with Mark 5... is Electra Dyne the ticket?

[MBJunkie]

LOL....restart the entire argurment! :roll:

There is no argument as far as I am concerned!

I will say that I typically do not modify my guitars to try to make them work for a specific amp!! Instead.....I try to find the amp(s) that work well for me with my guitars.

Secondly, I think it is great that Mesa (and many other amp manufacturers) offers such a wide variety of excellent amps! There is no need for "arguments" at all.....just pick whatever amp works best for you!

You should really care less that the Dyne didn't work for me......just as I could care less the V doesn't work for you. To each their own.

The best thing to all mucisians today is the incredible choices of guitars, amps, etc. that are available. We can all pick and choose what works best for us unlike ever before which is awesome as far as I am concerned!! :mrgreen:

 

[elvis]

I am very close to getting just about anything out of the Dyne, regardless of the guitar. HOWEVER, it requires a huge pedalboard.

In front:
Volume
Wah
Tuner
MXR EVH Flanger
MXR Evh Phase 90
Keeley Looper (to kill off Phase/Flange when not in use)
OD808
BBP-AT (True Bypass)
Butler Tube Driver (True Bypass)
Metal Zone
Carl Martin compressor/limiter (True Bypass)

FX Loop
Boss GE7
Boss DD-3
TC Electronic Flashback Delay (True Bypass)
Eventide Time Factor Delay (True Bypass)
MXR Micro-Amp

With the looper and true bypass pedals, I have a pretty small load on the tone, so I can still get the tone and dynamics of the amp. I have a Rocktron Tru Loop, and I may use it to convert the FX loop to parallel if I feel I'm losing dynamics, especially with the crappy Boss pedals.

With the various gain pedals and the compressor, I can get as liquid/squishy as I want. I can also keep the amp's more biting growly tone, but add sustain and harmonics. With the delays, I can get a more thick sound. I can also use either the TF or the FB as a loop, so I can get another guitar part on the fly. I mostly use the delays set for tape loop. The TF is the one I use most, and I tend to use the FB as a delay when I use the TF as a looper. The TF has 20 presets, so it's the more practical of the two for changing things up.

It's sick. I can't stop playing. I'm doing a LOT of pedalboard dancing, but so be it. I have the amp tone controls near 12:00, and I'm fine with the tone of all the modes. I honestly have no idea what everyone's problem is with it. I guess I'm not too discriminating, or I have the same taste as whoever set up this amp. I just love playing the living s**t out of it. Oh, and whatever amp I play, I still sound like... me. That's still true with the Dyne.

So far I am partial to LO either by itself, or with any combination of gain and compressor. The TD into LO is awesome. I also like the TD, either into clean or LO. I like the BBP-AT into all 3 modes. The OD808 is nice when things get too muddy - finally I have a use for the mid boost of that pedal. Everything is set for moderate gain, so even BBP into TD into LO is usable. It's actually really a nice sound. I have yet to dial in the Metal Zone, so I don't have a metal tone yet. I have Blues, Classic Rock and Modern Rock nailed. My jazz tone is too bright, because that's how I like the clean mode. I may use the GE7 to get a more traditional jazz tone. I've given up on using it for a Mark tone.

I still find that the power amp of the Dyne is unique, and it does not seem to support anything close to a Mark tone. It's just to twitchy. That's OK by me. When I want Mark, I have a SP and a Triaxis.

I wish I had a rectifier tone, though. Maybe a Mini rec?

 

[YellowJacket]

LOL....restart the entire argurment! :roll:

There is no argument as far as I am concerned!

Discussion, etc... :lol:

I will say that I typically do not modify my guitars to try to make them work for a specific amp!! Instead.....I try to find the amp(s) that work well for me with my guitars.

8) You're talking to the biggest tweaker here. My cab is a homebrew VERY oversized 2 x 12 with a Celestion V30 and C90. It has a ported interior baffle to cut down standing waves. Both my guitars have aftermarket pickups with upgraded electronics. (CTS pots, PIO caps, etc) I basically customize everything to suit my purposes. One might argue whether that is effective but my tone is unique, to say the least. Going to try and record stuff eventually, now I have a decent Mic.

Secondly, I think it is great that Mesa (and many other amp manufacturers) offers such a wide variety of excellent amps! There is no need for "arguments" at all.....just pick whatever amp works best for you!

You should really care less that the Dyne didn't work for me......just as I could care less the V doesn't work for you. To each their own.

I don't care at all, personally. In fact I can completely understand where you are coming from. I would love for two Vintage Hi modes (channel cloning) on the Electra Dyne since there are times I wish I could use that mode both for crunch rhythm and lead. The minute you want tones where the volume is set to different places for Vintage Lo and Hi, frustration sets in.

The point of this thread was that a third party was trying to decide if it was worth it to switch from a Mark V to an Electra Dyne. (If his finances can support it, both would probably be a better option) This discussion is profitable for him so I am arguing for his sake. Our back and forth is resulting in quite the essay on pros and cons of owning a limited design amp.

The best thing to all mucisians today is the incredible choices of guitars, amps, etc. that are available. We can all pick and choose what works best for us unlike ever before which is awesome as far as I am concerned!! :mrgreen:

I totally agree.

I am very close to getting just about anything out of the Dyne, regardless of the guitar. HOWEVER, it requires a huge pedalboard.

In front:
Volume
Wah
Tuner
MXR EVH Flanger
MXR Evh Phase 90
Keeley Looper (to kill off Phase/Flange when not in use)
OD808
BBP-AT (True Bypass)
Butler Tube Driver (True Bypass)
Metal Zone
Carl Martin compressor/limiter (True Bypass)

FX Loop
Boss GE7
Boss DD-3
TC Electronic Flashback Delay (True Bypass)
Eventide Time Factor Delay (True Bypass)
MXR Micro-Amp

With the looper and true bypass pedals, I have a pretty small load on the tone, so I can still get the tone and dynamics of the amp. I have a Rocktron Tru Loop, and I may use it to convert the FX loop to parallel if I feel I'm losing dynamics, especially with the crappy Boss pedals.

With the various gain pedals and the compressor, I can get as liquid/squishy as I want. I can also keep the amp's more biting growly tone, but add sustain and harmonics. With the delays, I can get a more thick sound. I can also use either the TF or the FB as a loop, so I can get another guitar part on the fly. I mostly use the delays set for tape loop. The TF is the one I use most, and I tend to use the FB as a delay when I use the TF as a looper. The TF has 20 presets, so it's the more practical of the two for changing things up.

It's sick. I can't stop playing. I'm doing a LOT of pedalboard dancing, but so be it. I have the amp tone controls near 12:00, and I'm fine with the tone of all the modes. I honestly have no idea what everyone's problem is with it. I guess I'm not too discriminating, or I have the same taste as whoever set up this amp. I just love playing the living s**t out of it. Oh, and whatever amp I play, I still sound like... me. That's still true with the Dyne.

So far I am partial to LO either by itself, or with any combination of gain and compressor. The TD into LO is awesome. I also like the TD, either into clean or LO. I like the BBP-AT into all 3 modes. The OD808 is nice when things get too muddy - finally I have a use for the mid boost of that pedal. Everything is set for moderate gain, so even BBP into TD into LO is usable. It's actually really a nice sound. I have yet to dial in the Metal Zone, so I don't have a metal tone yet. I have Blues, Classic Rock and Modern Rock nailed. My jazz tone is too bright, because that's how I like the clean mode. I may use the GE7 to get a more traditional jazz tone. I've given up on using it for a Mark tone.

I still find that the power amp of the Dyne is unique, and it does not seem to support anything close to a Mark tone. It's just to twitchy. That's OK by me. When I want Mark, I have a SP and a Triaxis.

I'm not a pedal guy AT ALL, at least not now. I have contemplated running a boost but there aren't the funds right now and I honestly have trouble tapdancing =-( I seriously have trouble with the Electra Dyne footswitch live and I almost prefer the 2 Channel Recto. I think I might have to use my volume controls more instead! (using EITHER vintage Lo or Hi live usually works better for me)

I wish I had a rectifier tone, though. Maybe a Mini rec?

Either the Mini Rec, or maybe look into a 2 channel Recto? My Recto used to drive me bananas but now I have the Electra Dyne I have instant GAS kill. I think this will save an incredible amount of money in the long run! I'm tempted to try both amps at once but I'm afraid if I do that I'll never want to run them separately EVER again!

 

[elvis]

Yes, it's frankly crazy how many pedals I am running. It's really more of an experiment than anything right now. I mean, 4 gain pedals for an amp with 2 gain modes???

But I am just trying to see what all I can do with it. I expect in the end I will reduce to a more reasonable number of pedals.

One thing I have found is that the TS style pedals are very similar to the tone already in the amp. This makes them good for a bit more gain and sustain, but that's about it. I use the the BBP on the clean mode, but it's almost indistinguishable from LO. So I go back and forth on that.

The Tube Driver has a COMPLETELY different tone than the Dyne, so it will be a keeper for sure. It's very bassy, and gives a classic violin tone that the amp really can't do on its own. It's also a ragged, dirty-sounding pedal, so it adds something new to my tone choices.

The Metal Zone is for fun and probably won't last, unless I magically get a good recto tone from it. Unlikely, though.

The compressor is my third serious attempt to add compression. No telling how that will turn out. It does help bring up the level of the coil-tapped positions so that I'm not fighting for volume. Haven;t decided if the artifacts are worth it.

Gotta have a wah - that will stay. Not sure I like the Bad Horsie II any more, though. I swear it used to sound better.

The EVH Phase 90 will stay - I use it a lot. It's a great addition to the Dyne LO mode. The flanger, not so much.

Everything in the loop is for fun, so probably none of it will stay EXCEPT for the micro amp. I do need a solo boost, and that works great.

 

[YellowJacket]

You need to try one of these:

Wampler Triple Wreck!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBjfEkC2-qo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCJxBM0WsQo

=-o


Pedals are not a priority but if I ever was to get some, I'd want a Tube Tremolo pedal, A Wah pedal, and maybe some kind of boost. I think a 10 band EQ would be cool for when I run my Dual Rectifier with Yellow Jackets. The boost interests me in the event I want a heavier tone that the amp cannot do on its own. **curious** how does the mini amp work as a solo boost?

 

[MBJunkie]

Good points YJ......and yes, we have had some good discussions! :lol:
Hopefully, our discussions have provided some good insight and opinions for both amps. :mrgreen:

 

[elvis]

I listened to the Wampler. Sounds awesome! Awfully pricey, though.

I actually got a pretty good recto tone from my Metal Zone tonight. I was twiddling knobs out of boredom, and found that boosting the low mids really got it going. Up 'till now I had been scooping the mids. I cranked it for a bit, and it was great. My ears are ringing...

 

[YellowJacket]

*barfs* to Metal Zone. It will sound like 'decent recto' until you hear a recto in person! =-)

I wanted to run both my amps for a wider crunch tone but now I'm thinking I may slave Dual instead. Does anyone have experience with this? I guess I go from the slave out into the FX return on the Dual Rectifier, right? Ideally, I'd like for the Recto to add its special sauce onto the tone but I really wonder how that would work.

Good points YJ......and yes, we have had some good discussions! :lol:
Hopefully, our discussions have provided some good insight and opinions for both amps. :mrgreen:

Yup. Basic insight = Buy the Electra Dyne if you KNOW you can live with the Design Limitations.

 

[elvis]

That's my problem, really. I have no experience with the recto, other than a few recordings of people who allegedly use them. Can you recommend any clips?

 

[TremoJem]

As an owner of two Tremoverbs I would really love to hear some clips of guys playing lead that claim rectos suck at lead.

Really, I mean please post some of this. I either suck, don't know any better or am just stupid.

I really am serious...please post your examples of lead that you hate on rectos and even compare, if you have the amps to do so, against the amps you claim are better at leads than rectos.

Mark users are you out there?

Lonestar etc...bring it on.

I want to hear it all.

Who knows maybe it will convince me to go to the local dealer and spend hours playing many Mesa's and even buy something different, like a Mark or Lonestar, ED etc.

 

[JOEY B.]

As an owner of two Tremoverbs I would really love to hear some clips of guys playing lead that claim rectos suck at lead.

Really, I mean please post some of this. I either suck, don't know any better or am just stupid.

I really am serious...please post your examples of lead that you hate on rectos and even compare, if you have the amps to do so, against the amps you claim are better at leads than rectos.

Mark users are you out there?

Lonestar etc...bring it on.

I want to hear it all.

Who knows maybe it will convince me to go to the local dealer and spend hours playing many Mesa's and even buy something different, like a Mark or Lonestar, ED etc.

It's the voicing of the Recto that makes it harder to get a "singing" solo voice. The orange "Vintage Hi Gain" mode is the best mode in the 2-channel Rectos to acheive this. The internet is a great way to mis-interpret things. All the "clips" and "videos" will NEVER compare to the feel and response that you get when YOU are the one doing the playing. I owned a 2-channel Triple Rec for many years, so I'm not talking **** that I don't know. Mark I, Mark IIB, IIC+, Mark III, Mark IV, LSC, LSS, Stiletto Ace, Triple Rec, Electra-Dyne, Royal Atlantic, I have owned them all. Most were bought used, so I didn't take a beating if and when I sold them. It's not the fact that any of them have bad tone, but some are voiced for easier lead playing. Go try them, you'll see what I mean. 8)

 

[TremoJem]

I totally get that and understand what you are saying.

But, when I bought my first Tremoverb I did not know any better and just trusted my ear and fingers/feel.

I played better than I ever did out of any rig ever in my life.

Then, I started reading this forum (years later) and have been interested in all the chatter about tone stacks, tube rolling etc.

I made some major changes that included SED =C= EL34 in one amp and SED =C= 6L6 in the other. I also place a Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1 and a Philips 12AT7 in V6 in both amps.

I have placed a parametric EQ in the FXLoop and cut 200Hz, slightly boosted 100Hz and slightly boosted 1KHz

I spent hours dialing in the amps without any FX anywhere and then added the EQ to make the changes I mentioned above so that I would have a great tone if I chose to bypass the FXLoop.

And now my tone is even better. Again, I must suck or am really stupid or just don't know any better.

Maybe a trip to the local Mesa dealer is the trick now.

 

[JOEY B.]

Maybe a trip to the local Mesa dealer is the trick now.

When you do, carry one of your Tremoverbs with you, as a comparison. Some of the amps that I mentioned have very tricky settings for high gain. Turn the dials with your ears and not your eyes. This is especially true with the Lonestar and Stiletto series. Study the online users manuals at www.mesaboogie.com Have fun!

 

[TremoJem]

O.K. so when I first got these two Tremoverbs years ago I LOVED the Vintage mode and made due with Modern mode.

Now that I have somewhat learned how to EQ them I do not channel clone.

However, I read the post stating that Vintage mode is best for leads, so I decided to revisit it.

The Vintage mode is somewhat dark in that there is no real high or sparkling spank to the mode.

I had to increase Treble and Presence without introducing fizz, and that is not that easy.

In short, I am not really that happy, no disrespect to the guy who suggested the Vintage mode as being best for singing leads, as anyone can tell you to jump off a bridge...you know what I mean.

I like all information and it is my choice to act on it and not all things are equal so what works for some may not work for others.

Anyway, I decided to also switch from Tube Rectifier to Silicon and from Spongy to Bold.

I am going to play for awhile changing these settings until I am absolutely sure which combination works best for me.

I will share my findings later.

By the way I am not a shredder. I do not play metal and have said for awhile now that the Tremoverbs are voiced a little differently than other Rectos and I am just trying to support that with some research and experimentation.

I think my amps have amazing clean (not Fender clean) and great lead tone, but that is just me.

What would be AMAZING is if I could get three REALLY talented guys with three different playing styles to play my rig and see what it sounds like.

All I have to go on are recording and live playing and tape does not lie.

 

[YellowJacket]

the Orange channel is best for leads, whether that be Vintage or Orange set to Modern.

 

[JOEY B.]

Look at page 9 of the Tremoverb users manual, the next to the last paragraph. Channel Cloning "Red to Vintage" opens up a whole new world, when both presence controls are active. A compressor in the loop will help some, too.

 

[TremoJem]

Why is that?

I thought that the Tremoverb was not a "real" two channel amp.

I thought that the Tremoverb shared the circuitry and did not have two independent channels.

Hey I am not arguing with you...and if the Red channel was capable of delivering the same quality cleans as the Orange channel I would go with it if the Orange produced the singing leads I am used to from the Red channel.

Please elaborate and thanks.

 

[JOEY B.]

Hey I am not arguing with you...

Yes, you are. Play the other offerings from MESA, and come back with an "informed" opinion. It may not be any different, but that's okay too.

 

[Birdy]

Well....my $0.02....IMO of course.

I had a Mark V head and an Ed for over 3 months, both at the same time.
There is no doubt that the MV is an awesome versatile amp.

After about 1 1/2 months, I was always going to the ED for *MY* tones.
I play mostly classic rock/blues/my own **** and found the ED to be the most
versatile in it's simplicity...for me. And its all about the *organic* thing, especially
after swapping in some good tubes. Plugged into a 4x12 cab with Greenbacks I get
tones that I was always searching for.

Also...IMO...good pickups in your guitar REALLY make a huge difference in getting the
sound a player is after. The LoLLar mini-humbuckers in my Firebird V are just amazing
with the ED...a match made in heaven. Clean or dirty settings deliver everything I want
without using any dirt pedals. Having said that, I may try out a Triple Wreck from Wampler
soon.

If you've got a great foundation(amp-wise), pedals are easy to get you to your tone search
without giving up a basic, great clean tone.

I bought a Mesa Reverb on/off pedal..it's nice to have the option for single channel use rather
than just off/paired selection.

Also, I always play in 90 watt mode as the ED really gives up that *organic 3D depth* thing in
that setting.

Obligatory owner spam pic :mrgreen: ;

 

[YellowJacket]

Birdy, I LOVE that Marshall 4 x 12! Did you get rid of your ED combo? I recall at one point you had a 2 x 12 combo for cleans and then that other beast for your gain tones!

I agree about the 'right guitar' / 'high quality pickups'. My one guitar is a big fat hunk of mahogany with a bolt on neck, Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pro in the Neck and a Custom Custom in the bridge. It tears!! MANY TIMES! AMAZING clean and really great / versatile crunch tones.

My Gibson Les Paul has Bare Knuckle Rebel Yells. It sounds GREAT!

Both guitars have upgraded electronics. The ED is a picky amp but it is an awesome one. Definitely feels like me!