Mark V: Live Band Tone Settings Tips

[BrownieD2W]

Hey Boarders,

I could use some tips on dialing in my tone in the context of a band. I recently started playing with a full band for the first time and I figured several of you guys are a lot more experienced with your Mark V in the context of a full band. I was wondering if you guys might have some tips for getting over the learning curve quicker. A lot of the material we are playing is quite a bit different than what I am accustomed to, but I'm also doing more lead guitar work now.

I am having a hard time dialing in the Rhythm tone I want that works equally well as a Lead tone when slightly boosted. Most of the time when I kick on any form of a boost to my already boosted high-end & mid-range tone from the Amp, I wind up with a really nasal sounding lead tone. Most of the material we are playing at this point is Alice In Chains, Black Sabbath, and early Soundgarden. So any tips to keep in mind when dialing in a more cohesive Rhythm and Lead sound, or any settings to try out in a band-context would very helpful.

My Equipment List: (for reference)

96' Gibson Explorer
Mark V Combo (C90)
MXR 10 Band EQ
Ibanez Tube Screamer TS9
Dunlop Original Crybaby Wah

 

[elvis]

Basic stuff:

Lower the gain. A lot of your compression will come from volume. Less gain = more clarity and punch. If you keep turning up and still can't hear yourself, this may be the problem.

Watch your lows. Don't step on the bass player. If it sounds nasal when you're playing on your own, it's probably about right. Low E is 80Hz, Low B is 60Hz.

Watch your volume. Have everyone agree to turn down rather than each keeps turning up. It'll save your ears and your vocalist's voice as well. The drummer needs to play to the room.

For leads: if you're already accentuating mids for rhythm grind, cut them and add lows for a smoother lead tone. I use a BBPre for this.

 

[ryjan]

^Great points by Elvis ^

I'll add my $.02.

Scooped tones sound killer all by yourself and when jamming to the radio but you'll be burried under the bassist and cymbals in a band.

Ditch the EQ pedal. The nuances it may provide won't be noticed when all of you are a' rockin. :lol:

Remember that when you are standing a foot from your cab and it's at knee level it won't be as loud to you as it is to everyone else in the room. (My last guitarist never understood this no matter how many times I explained it to him. He just kept turning it up until we had to all yell at him.)

Rather than adjusting volumes while practicing, try adjusting only EQ. Get your bassist, other guitarist (if applicable), and you to each settle on a predominate frequency and that will be each person's spot in the mix that they own. If you give each other enough space in respect to frequency then the volume of each individual instrument won't be the deciding factor on who gets heard.

Then if you're in the middle of a show and you feel the guitar tone is a bit thin you can have the guy who's lower in the spectrum turn up a bit to fill in the lows without stepping on anyone else.

Mid range is where guitars sound aggressive. Scooping the guitars means you will have to carve out the whole middle frequency range of the rest of the band so you can even hear them.

You don't want your band to cover this EQ spectrum.

60hz--80hz--120hz--240hz--400hz--600hz--750hz--900hz--1200hz--2200hz--6000hz--8000hz
Kick/Bass/Guitar-Lows (**EMPTY HOLLOW SPACE**)Vocals/Guitar-Highs/High-Drums/Cymbals

 

[elvis]

Best $0.02 I've seen in a while, Ryjan. Love the chart :lol:

 

[ryjan]

Thanks man.

Here's another chart that may be interesting to us tone junkies.

 

[OldTelecasterMan]

For me when setting up the amp Channel 1 and 2 I use no eq. Bass is not your friend but your bass player is, so keep him happy by not trying to steal his thunder. I set my channel 2 drive for rhythm/lead and channel 3 for lead/rhythm because with a tube amp the volume pot on the guitar is your best friend. I set all channels to work with the volume on the guitar first because I hate doing the pedal board dance all night and second the dynamics that can be added while you play a solo by using the volume on the guitar is very cool.

Playing in a two guitar band is very much a team effort. I worked with a very seasoned player for a few years and he taught me a lot. When he did a solo I backed off and when I soloed he did the same. This also helps in volume creep through the night. If at all possible get your amp so it is pointed at you or far enough back so you hear it really well, you will play at a lower volume level. Then you will get asked to turn up rather than turn down. As for pedals I use one delay all the time with a second delay for a few leads and both delays and a little chorus on the clean channel.

Listen to some Joe Banamasa he has great tone, not too much bass, good mids and very nice highs. Guitar is a vocal instrument and it plays in frequencies that the ear is designed to hear in. Also what may sound kind of "boxy" at home probably sounds pretty good when you are with a band.

The Mark V has great tone even without the EQ. I have heard some great sounding bedroom guitar players but you never hear them in a band. Get it!!! LOL

 

[4406cuda]

Get a 1x12 or 2x12 cab that is closed back. Use channel two crunch for rhythm with no graphic eq. Use channel 3 for lead with the graphic eq, I go back and forth between IIC+ and Mark IV for lead.

 

[4406cuda]

Also, ditch the EQ and tube screamer. The only boost I have liked is the Xotic EP Booster. I like it so much, I just leave it on all the time at about 25%

 

[BrownieD2W]

Thanks a lot for the responses guys, they were exactly what I needed.

^Great points by Elvis ^

I'll add my $.02.

Scooped tones sound killer all by yourself and when jamming to the radio but you'll be burried under the bassist and cymbals in a band.

Ditch the EQ pedal. The nuances it may provide won't be noticed when all of you are a' rockin. :lol:

Remember that when you are standing a foot from your cab and it's at knee level it won't be as loud to you as it is to everyone else in the room. (My last guitarist never understood this no matter how many times I explained it to him. He just kept turning it up until we had to all yell at him.)

Rather than adjusting volumes while practicing, try adjusting only EQ. Get your bassist, other guitarist (if applicable), and you to each settle on a predominate frequency and that will be each person's spot in the mix that they own. If you give each other enough space in respect to frequency then the volume of each individual instrument won't be the deciding factor on who gets heard.

Then if you're in the middle of a show and you feel the guitar tone is a bit thin you can have the guy who's lower in the spectrum turn up a bit to fill in the lows without stepping on anyone else.

Mid range is where guitars sound aggressive. Scooping the guitars means you will have to carve out the whole middle frequency range of the rest of the band so you can even hear them.

You don't want your band to cover this EQ spectrum.

60hz--80hz--120hz--240hz--400hz--600hz--750hz--900hz--1200hz--2200hz--6000hz--8000hz
Kick/Bass/Guitar-Lows (**EMPTY HOLLOW SPACE**)Vocals/Guitar-Highs/High-Drums/Cymbals

@ ryjan: That frequency range chart is awesome and extremely helpful for someone like me, and your suggestions are pretty spot on. We are just getting started but we're all pretty understanding guys when it comes to music and we would rather sound good as a group than individuals. I'm just starting to scratch the surface of understanding live-band sound. The other guitarist has an Orange tube amp that sounds pretty bright and mid-range focused. I've heard that Mark amps are also typically mid-range focused by nature, which is what created the necessity for the 5-Band EQ. As of right now we are having a little bit of a hard time figuring out the best way to get a more cohesive tone. I tend to have a pretty heavy tone no matter what I am playing and as a result I have been slowly but surely dialing in more mids to become more present in the mix, but my tone gets a little honky sounding at times when I really start getting into it and start picking harder. With his mid dominant tone, I feel like I need to cover a wider range in order to be heard but I am not sure if this is the right approach? Especially when it comes to a good singing solo tone. Should I be focusing on the mid-high and low ends of my tone, or should we both be trying to meet somewhere in the literal middle?

And thanks for the volume control tips OldTelecasterMan. I'm eager to give it a try with this guitarist.

 

[ryjan]

I'm glad I could help.
As far as balancing your tone with another guitarist I'd go mainly by ear. Keep both amps in their sweet spots then dial the GEQ on your Mark V to where you can both play the same passages together but easily distinguish two separate guitars.
The amount of separation will depend on what you think sounds best.

 

[diddlydan]

If you are looking for a singing lead tone,id recommend Mark 1 mode.Its the ultimate lead channel imo.I started a thread on it a while back. http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=68075 My settings are in there.Most important is the graphic eq setting.Looks strange but sounds great.Also in a band setting try and avoid the v shape on the graphic eq.I was messing about recording a while back and done one with no graphic eq and one with a slight v shape.Once they were recorded i level matched em and it sounded better with the graphic eq off tbh.When ya engage the eq it makes things louder which fools us into thinking things sound better.Pretty much what the guys said above.just find your spot in the frequency range and dont use too much gain and you should be fine.All the band needs to work together so you arent stepping on each others toes frequency wise.I gigged recently with my mark v and it cut through like a knife so it definitely sounds great live.Bit of tweaking and ya should be sorted in no time.Good Luck!