LSC vs Fender

[mdortona]

I've had a LSC for just about 8 months now, was running el-34s and was happy. Broke a tube and decided to put the 6L6s back in. A few weeks ago, I made the fatal mistake of A-Bing the LSC against a blackface Fender Bandmaster and was shocked!!! The Fender was hooked up to a C90 open 1x12 and the LSC was hooked up to another C90 in an open LSS cab. Side by side the LSC sounded dull and just mediocre. The Fender on the other hand had amazing sparkle and definition. Twiddled with the LSC knobs etc. and could not get it's clean magic back
I put the el-34s back in (found a matched set in my spares) and it still had lost it's magic. The only thing that has not been done to the amp is a full retube, but I don't want to toss a $100+ bucks out the window either. Has anyone else experienced this?? Any ideas? Thanks!

Matt

P.S. - FWIW, I started out with a Silverface Twin Reverb.

 

[plan-x]

The LSC is a dark amp. Fenders are bright. Running the fender with the mesa cab(C-90) also helped smooth out the tone. Play the fender. And maybe...after some time, the tone will become more obvious of why you liked the LSC. Cuz fenders could never loose the high mid spike and would wear out there welcome. Honestly can't say that I've A/B'd em though.
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37980

 

[djw]

I sort of have this thing with my LSC vs. my DR as well. Fenders are indeed very bright, and with the stock Mesa tubes the LSC does sound relatively dark, or at worst, dull. However... what the Fender does not have is the vibe and the feel that the LSC has in spades, for me anyway. As sweet as my Fender is, I can't get the precise level of grit on my cleans that I can with the LSC; nor does it have a monstrous creamy yummy OD channel like the Mesa. I think the LSC's reverb is better (though mine's being fixed at the moment), and the LSC doesn't give me ear fatigue as easily as blackface Fenders generally do. The Fender cleans are gorgeous, but they can hurt sometimes.

Also: retube that baby with something other than Mesa tubes. Just do it. It'll change everything for you.

 

[Mork]

Also: retube that baby with something other than Mesa tubes. Just do it. It'll change everything for you.

JJ or Groove tubes? I can't decide, but I can buy a pair of matched JJ's for half the price of matched Mesa's.....

 

[djw]

You could go with either and be fine. Can't really go wrong with straight JJ's, I reckon. But I would talk to Doug at www.DougsTubes.com, and tell him what you have and what you're after -- whether it's more brightness, more clarity, earlier breakup, or whatever. He can recommend a mix of tubes that should get you pretty far.

I was kinda shocked at the effect of having a new set of preamp tubes. Power tubes factor in obviously, but I heard the most recognizable difference with preamp tubes.

Just be sure that you mark each 12ax7 with the slot # that you pulled them out from, especially v5: they're calibrated for the roles they play, and you'll want to keep them for spares at least. Also: technically, you void the warranty by using non-Mesa branded tubes, which is pretty silly. So keep them handy.

 

[mdortona]

John and DJW,

Thanks for the advice and insight. I'll give the LSC a fair shake. I just pulled the trigger on a mid-70's Silverface Bandmaster Reverb with a Master Volume, which I found online at GC (and got 12 months same as cash). So I have some time until the credit card man comes knocking................ :lol: FWIW, my latest crazy idea is to run a two amp set-up: The Fender for the cleans and my Monsta-Tone modded Heartbreaker for the nasty stuff. We'll see what happens...... :roll:

Matt

 

[ja22y]

Fender in general has more dynamic and more touch sensitive. Which gives you punch and clarity in the low, LSC seems compressed and muddy in comparison. Fender Tweeds are not bright at all. Then why the LS? For mes me the LS(C and S) gives me voices that are unique, decent clean, ok drive. Using 2 amps, one for clean and one for dirt is not crazy at all. Many people have done it.

 

[x6stringer]

I love Fenders also. I originally bought the LSC because I wanted a Fender flavor that I could rock with as well. As much as I love Fender, I wanted a bigger, pushed rock sound. I was never 100% happy with the sound of the Lonestar until I did the Reeder mod. It was always too dark and muddy on the 2nd channel. Now I love it! It's a great rock alternative to my Fender. V30's also have more top end than the c90's. Maybe that would help get your mojo back?? Good luck!

 

[mdortona]

I'm still torn about the Lonestar, but I plan to have it retubed and then reevaluate things. In the meantime, I'm using a Fender Bandmaster Reverb, which sounds quite good, with a Seymour Duncan Twin Tube Blue (the newest one) "to push it". My modded Heartbreaker is due back from the shop this week, so I'll be "A-B-ing" this week-end with a little luck. Thanks for advice about the V30s too!

Matt

 

[davidp158]

If you want your amp brighter, experiment with the treble and presence controls. I find the treble knob in particular has a radical effect on the tone AND gain for both channels of the LSC. I prefer the clean channel over the Fenders I've owned (Twin, Deluxe Reverb, Vibroverb, Bandmaster), and the LSC is way more versatile than a Bassman. Consider that a tone that sounds good by itself doesn't always sound the same within a band mix. Ultimately it comes down to what works best for the sounds you're after. The Bassman is a great amp, and if that's the tone for you, it may be the better choice.

 

[mdortona]

Thanks for the tip. Are you running 6L6s or El34s? My experience has been better with the 34s. I plan to have my LSC re-tubed this week-end and see how that sounds. Take care!

Matt

 

[mdortona]

Also, in all fairness, it's more than just brightness/treble and gain response. The mids on the LSC are definitely voiced differently than the Fenders, which makes a big difference in the whole tone picture. I agree with you 100% about the LSC being more versatile amp than the hallowed Bassman. I did have a chance to use the LSC and my Bandmaster in a band context too. We're a classic outfit and the consensus of opinions (of the guys) were that the Bandmaster sounded better, but I still plan to experiment further with the LSC. The jury is still out in my mind. :wink:

Matt

 

[rippingrudy]

I've played them all and the best clean I've ever heard, to date, was a Mark III green stripe. I think the caps were going and there was an odd harmonic added which sounded like **** on the dirty channel but beautiful on the clean.

Fender clean is over-the-top bright and in your face... Perfect if you like that sparkly, uncompressed sound.

The Lonestar is more balanced and compressed... Basically a "tamed" version of a Fender. Mesa is like Japan... they take someone Else's design and refine it for modern use.

 

[dodger916]

Mesa is like Japan... they take someone Else's design and refine it for modern use.

That can be said of many amp makers of the past 50 years. I've read that Marshall was built from the Bassman circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Amplification) while Mesa was built from the Princeton.