low tunings and flubbiness

[Areola]

i tune to drop C and use 10-52

I do exactly the same thing. When I tune to Std E (on the occassion that I go and have a jam with another band) I will put 9-46's on my guitar. I don't really need the bottom end of the thick strings because I use a Mesa.

I write all my music in C. Normally its Drop C, but for some alternate tunings I go to Std C and Open C just so my bassist is permanently in Std C. For those occasions I use 10-52s. I like the tension and the strings still feel kinda "soft" under my fingers. The only fret buzz I get is in where the fret wire is damaged on the middle 2 strings at the 8th fret.

So my advice is: 2 guitars. Standard tuning use 9-46s and Low tuning use 10-52s. Once you get your tone set up, should sound good on both.

 

[desertcj]

I use a liberal amount of midrange on the Orange channel to help make the guitar stand out when tuning down like this. I also have used a trick for years with all the different Rectos I have owned and that is to turn the Treble knob VERY low and make up for the Highs on the presence knob. Having the mids up a lot will also add some cut to the signal. Lastly I always keep my lows at 12 o'clock and make myself accept that that is the natural low end for my guitar. I have found that you never seem to get enough bass in your guitar signal so I use the 12 o'clock rule to just say enough is enough.

I agree with this, I also had better luck with the orange channel. And I definitely agree with keeping the bass around 12 o'clock. also turn your mids up to where you just get enough cut but not too much. That is one thing i like about my road king. I am able to run 6L6's and EL34's together to give it more cut in the mix without cranking my mids.

 

[MF]

Alright, i had some pretty good results last night. Initially the lower gauge strings resolved about half of the flubbiness i was complaining about. I tweaked some settings on the red channel but still wasn't too impressed with the results. The biggest improvement came from using the orange channel. I got a great tone from that one and my only complaint was that it felt a little lacking in the gain dept, which could likely be rectified with a boost.

So thanks for the help guys!

 

[R_ADKINS80]

Alright, i had some pretty good results last night. Initially the lower gauge strings resolved about half of the flubbiness i was complaining about. I tweaked some settings on the red channel but still wasn't too impressed with the results. The biggest improvement came from using the orange channel. I got a great tone from that one and my only complaint was that it felt a little lacking in the gain dept, which could likely be rectified with a boost.

So thanks for the help guys!

I tune drop-c and C-standard. Orange channel with a tubescreamer is molten metal heaven!

 

[desertcj]

There is definitely enough gain on the orange channel, what are your current settings? And what band would you equate your musical style to so i understand what kind of gain you are going for? I have never heard anybody tell me there dual rectifier doesn't have enough gain.

If you can dial in the orange channel to get the sound you want there are options. I have never tried this but supposedly channel 2 and channel 3 are the same except the value of the presence pot. you can always mod channel 3 if you want to use channel 2 for a different sound. I personally never used channel 3 on mine and contemplated making the change before i got my road king.

here is the info direct from the manual on the orange and red channel.

If you come to find that you are mostly using two sounds of the same type in the same Mode in Channels 2 and 3 (both 2 & 3 set to VINTAGE or both 2 & 3 set to MODERN) and this difference in Presence pots is making it difficult to dial in your sounds, it is possible to change out either channels PRESENCE Control to be the value and taper of the Channel you prefer. This will omit the differences and create two virtually identical channels. You can call us and ask to speak with a Product Specialist. Tell us which channel you wish to duplicate and the correct PRESENCE Control pot can be sent to you for a nominal charge. If you do not feel comfortable doing this mod yourself or trust anyone in your area, you can obtain a Return Authorization from our Customer Service Dept. and send your amplifier to us to perform the mod for the minimum bench charge. You will be responsible for shipping charges both ways and to pack the unit so that it is safe from shipping damages.

By the way, the pot will only cost a couple of dollars plus shipping.

 

[155]

The orange channle is the way to go, as well as heavy strings, you definatley needs to turn the bass down, I ususally wont go any lower then c std with 52-11's if you want to go to A you better get some 56's.Im curios about what Chrismckinley said with the od I never felt the need for one but will try it for shits and grins! I also found you need to pay attention to your attack alot more tuned down its easy to get really sloppy

 

[MF]

There is definitely enough gain on the orange channel, what are your current settings? And what band would you equate your musical style to so i understand what kind of gain you are going for? I have never heard anybody tell me there dual rectifier doesn't have enough gain.

I guess a more accurate description would be that it didn't have enough useable gain for my tastes, but maybe that is an issue with the presence more than the gain. I found the gain too harsh once it got past 1.

I set everything at 12 and worked from there, though because i was practicing with the band i didn't really have time to tweak so most of my settings stayed in the 11-1 range. Bass was 11 i think and the mids and treble were between 12 and 1.

I'm not looking for a specific band's tone in particular, but my desired end result would be a thick meaty gain with no breakup.

 

[droptrd]

Recto's are famous for being "not-so-tight". If a pickup change is out of the question (i like the "duncan distortion" for drop tunings), I would suggest a boost. Clean boost for hot pups and OD boost for medium pups.

 

[vitor gracie]

Chris,

I re-read your post several times. I bow to you sir. (Vitor bows humbly ) I think for me, using pedals with my amp became taboo because before I learned how to dial in a good sound I used WAY too many pedals. My first Recto ever was a brand new store bought Trem O Verb. I was completely immature on my instrument and didn't learn to use it for years to come. It wasn't until I started settling on a few good sounds that I really learned to appreciated the amp. I wanted a million sounds at my feet and it took away from the art of playing and enjoying music for me.

So not using OD pedals became more of a fundamental thing instead of a functional thing. After reading your post I am definitely going to experiment with some OD pedals. I kept a couple for using with my little back up amp (a 30 watt Class A Crate V-30 head)

Its funny, I was so opposed to using them in the way you described before MF made this post... and after reading it I remembered Andy Timmons and his BB pedal in front of the drive channel of his amps. I know thats off topic, and that we where talking about tuning down but it all is very interesting to me and related. All of the things you wrote made perfect sense to me.

There are some great responses to MF's dilemma, and everyone is contributing in a very informative and intelligent way.
...makes me very happy :mrgreen:

Lastly, MF...
...this may be irrelevant to you but for my own uses with writing in dropped tunings I never really ever got one single guitar to perfectly respond or track correctly for all the types of writing I do in those tunings. I have 3 guitars for different uses. One is for leads and smooth cleans, one is for faster palm-muting stuff and the main one I use come close enough to all that I need to do. Ironically, my main guitar is the LEAST comfortable to play :roll: -but its my favorite one.

Sometimes it may not be all the amp's fault. Your Cab/speakers and guitar play a HUGE role in your sound. Hope all of the info from everyone here helps you out man.

 

[wolf]

Hi.I tune drop C and drop A.I love the sound when I play Gibson with 486T.The right pup is most interesting part of your sound chain.Strings is diferent chapter I have tryed almost all brands I stay with Thomastik Power brite Heavy bottom.

My Mesa rec setting.

presence:0
bass :12
middle :full
treble :12
gain :12-1

 

[Chris McKinley]

vitor,

No problem, man. I'm just a huge fan of guitar music, and I've been a micro-tweaking tone freak for many years. Sometimes, if you play long enough, you stumble upon a solution to various problems. Somtimes it takes years before you figure it out. If I can point somebody in the right direction or save them a lot of time getting the sounds they want, then I'm happy to pass my tidbits along. Hope the info was helpful.

 

[suedehead]

not meant to hijack this topic but:
i've read of several guitarists using dual recs that have kranked bass, treb & mids all the way up ... since the equalizers of a dual recs respond to eachother's setting, does this seem likely to produce a decent sound to you guys? one of the guitarists (from an underground - hardcore band) that supposedly did this had a sick and well saturated tone live ...

 

[Chris McKinley]

RE: "...does this seem likely to produce a decent sound to you guys?". No, not even remotely. Flubby, shrill, woofy and piercing...all at the same time. To me, this sounds like both a lazy and immature approach to achieving one's tone, but hey....I guess even guys with no taste can afford Mesas, too. :roll:

 

[suedehead]

well to be honest you're passing judgement without even having heard this guitarists tone ... so i guess your reply is a bit unfair and biased, since the guy we're talking about had incredible tone. thing is, i only have his settings from second hand information, not from the guy himself ... so i was wondering wheter the info was wrong which, according to you, is ... i guess that seems fair.

thanx.

 

[155]

not meant to hijack this topic but:
i've read of several guitarists using dual recs that have kranked bass, treb & mids all the way up ... since the equalizers of a dual recs respond to eachother's setting, does this seem likely to produce a decent sound to you guys? one of the guitarists (from an underground - hardcore band) that supposedly did this had a sick and well saturated tone live ...

that sounds nut! cant imagine it

 

[tunedown]

(from an underground - hardcore band)

Would you be willing to disclose the band? Maybe in a PM?

 

[Chris McKinley]

Let's look at this objectively, suedehead. First, I have heard that tone, since I have purposefully tried out all available tone configurations on my own Recto. It sounds like the garbage one would expect it to. Second, Randall Smith himself would tell you not to expect good tone with all the controls maxed out like that. The amp is not designed to produce good tones when the controls are simplistically maxed out. In fact, he goes to quite a bit of detail explaining how the tone controls are interactive, and how finding the right balance between them will be essential for getting good tone. Even if I hadn't tried it myself, I would intuitively expect that it would sound bad based on all the other tones I've tried and on everything I've ever read about the amp.

Third, and perhaps most importantly, your question was, and I quote, "...since the equalizers of a dual recs respond to eachother's setting, does this seem likely to produce a decent sound to you guys?". My answer, quite fairly, is "no". You then complain that, "well to be honest you're passing judgement without even having heard this guitarists tone...".

There are two problems with that complaint. 1) You didn't provide even so much as a cheap .mp3 clip to listen to, so, in fact, anyone and everyone who responds to your question will be passing judgment without having heard this guitarist's tone, at least as played by him, simply by answering your question. 2) Your original question made no mention of qualifying responders to your question by limiting it to only those who have heard him play with those settings. In fact, it could reasonably be assumed that no one who responds to your question has actually heard him.

Tone is subjective, and you may indeed enjoy listening to a Recto set with all its knobs maxed out, however, my opinion is that it would be tasteless to play that way, and further, that choosing to go "extreme", or "to the max", or whatever, just because it can be done, represents an immature approach to shaping one's tone. Your question was subjective, and I gave a subjective answer. I wasn't aware that I was obligated to provide an opinion you agreed with.

 

[suedehead]

dude, seriously ... you're about to pop a vein. apparently 155 succeeds in giving me a straight answer without throwing $.99 superlatives like 'lazy' & 'immature' in the conversation. you don't have to be condescending about it. oh and btw; i don't enjoy tone because someone goes to the 'extreme' or 'max' with his or her amp ... i enjoy tone when it's complementary to the music someone makes. for example i really like the brown-sound and the gain om my soldano's (main gig amps) hardly ever goes above 3-4 and still i really liked what this one guy supposedly did with his amp. does that make that one guy immature & lazy? ****, i hope not ... 'cause that would imply my 'sound' was plagiarism or 'stolen' from EVH. which in turn could be labled as 'being lazy'.

tunedown, you've got a pm!

 

[Chris McKinley]

suedehead,

There's no stress involved, at least not on my end. I apologize if you feel that any vocabulary above 'dude', 'sweet', 'rulz' and 'sux' is somehow condescending...if anything, you should take it as a compliment, since I assumed you were an adult and therefore comfortable with an adult level discussion of the topic. I'm too old to use a "teen email" level of writing and grammar personally, and I'd sound phony if I tried. I'm just not that hip...sincerely sorry if you felt put off by that.

Still, though, regardless of your explanations of why you like the tones you do....the bottom line is that you asked a subjective question, I responded with a purely subjective opinion, and then you complained about it. You don't have to agree with me; I'm certainly not asking you or anyone else to do so, but then I don't have to agree with you either. Feel perfectly free to believe that I'm simply wrong and that that particular guy's tone is spectacular despite my objections to it.

 

[tunedown]

dude, seriously ... you're about to pop a vein. apparently 155 succeeds in giving me a straight answer without throwing $.99 superlatives like 'lazy' & 'immature' in the conversation. you don't have to be condescending about it.

I would say, the only thing he said in his initial response that was condescending was "even guys with no taste can afford Mesas, too". (that was kind of a cheap shot ...I'd say the rest of his initial response was pretty accurate. I couldn't imagine anyone getting a mesa to sound good through any cab with all of the tone knobs maxed. Especially not hardcore/punk...

so...

does this seem likely to produce a decent sound to you guys?

Likely? No.

Is it possible? Maybe, but with some really weird circumstances... Like, on a runway during an airplane landing, perhaps?