Getting Metal tones out of a Dual Rectifier (Rev F)

[YellowJacket]

Hey

Logged in for the first time in a while to post here - glad to hear you've rediscovered your recto. Here are my two cents.

I'm sure someone will rush to jump all over me for this, but this is my experience - I never get a really heavy metal tone I'm truly satisfied with from my Les Paul, no matter the pickups. This is with a 6505 or a Dual Rec. At most, it straddles hard rock / classic metal. This is not a bad thing. Zakk Wylde makes it work for him, but I'm never able to. I do not know anything about your Godin. My suggestion is to bring your amp to a guitar store and try it out with several different types of guitars. I have the best luck for metal w/ mahogany strat-style body guitars (garden variety ESP/Schecter) with any sort of Tubescreamer boost. My other 6 string has DiMarzio Crunch lab, and my 7 string has a Duncan Distortion. Both sound great for metal.

Good luck

Great advice for sure. The Godin LG is somewhat similar to the Les Paul. It's a wider tone with a phatter low end and it's more lively / pissed off but it's still classic / hard rock territory for sure.

I already acquired a Godin Redline III off of the buy and sell. It's totally a super strat with a 25.5 scale bolt on maple neck, rosewood fingerboard, soft maple body with poplar wings. LFR locking trem.

It came stock with EMGs but I'm going to put BKP Juggernauts in it. The're on order.

The Godin LG with a TS9 has yielded a perfectly acceptable metal tone but I still like the idea of having a dedicated metal axe.

Also try experimenting with thicker picks and strings, I use the purple Dunlop Tortex picks (1.14mm) and the Delrins (2.0mm)

As far as strings go I use 11s for E - D, 12s for Drop C tunings and 13s or baritone strings for B - Drop A tunings.

Try some forearm dumbbell curls for more stamina for metal playing as well if you find yourself tiring quick, it's all in the wrist, not so much the arm.

I work out a lot already so I wonder if it's tension problems? Ya, I'm going to be using 11 - 49s on my Redline III (25.5 scale) for Drop C# tuning. I may tune to Drop B eventually but I'd rather be in the same tuning as the rest of the band, at least for now. I've been finding the green tortex picks are excellent but I'm sawing into them at a rather rapid rate HAHAH! I'm totally not used to the right hand part of metal, it takes a lot of energy!!!

 

[JCDenton6]

Ah I think eventually you will get used to super fast palm muting/picking soon, it becomes second nature after a few weeks of working at it, muscle memory and all.

 

[YellowJacket]

I think so. I probably need to work on staying relaxed, even when playing quickly with powerful strokes. I think I'm tensing up which is probably what is causing the problem.

So, I am beginning to figure out what I want tonewise with a bit of experimentation. Seems to be boosted / drop tuned. I'll have to set up at least one of my axes in drop B and I need one in drop C#. The Les Paul will probably stay in E standard because that's a good tuning for a Les Paul. The Godin LG seems to particularly like Eb / Drop C# so I may repurpose that guitar for that. I've used the Godin LG for teaching so far but I may get out my brother's old junker for teaching. BAHAHA!!

 

[b0nkersx1]

I think so. I probably need to work on staying relaxed, even when playing quickly with powerful strokes. I think I'm tensing up which is probably what is causing the problem.

So, I am beginning to figure out what I want tonewise with a bit of experimentation. Seems to be boosted / drop tuned. I'll have to set up at least one of my axes in drop B and I need one in drop C#. The Les Paul will probably stay in E standard because that's a good tuning for a Les Paul. The Godin LG seems to particularly like Eb / Drop C# so I may repurpose that guitar for that. I've used the Godin LG for teaching so far but I may get out my brother's old junker for teaching. BAHAHA!!

Sounds like you're on the right track. I'd definitely look at getting any type of tubescreamer as well for drop tuning (tons of options but a $30 bad monkey can be easily had). Not necessary, but I rarely turn mine off when I'm chugging. Probably would work really well w/ Juggernauts as well, since Misha (guitarist they were designed for) runs his pedal into high gain sounds 24/7 from what I know.

 

[YellowJacket]

I know of Misha and his band. With the sort of internet presence he has, he's kind of tough to miss.

Now, I'm curious about something. I was at the local guitar store today and I noticed that all the pedals that 'look' like Ibanez pedals now say "Maxon" on them. And there was an Ibanez OD808 model there but it was retailing for $200. Was there some sort of rights sharing going on? Maxon TS9 model costs now $20 more than the Ibanez variety but it looks the same as the Ibanez one. I really like the tone of the TS9 as an OD pedal. I also like Misha's signature OD pedal but it's probably more expensive and it definitely isn't so transparent.

 

[b0nkersx1]

I know of Misha and his band. With the sort of internet presence he has, he's kind of tough to miss.

Now, I'm curious about something. I was at the local guitar store today and I noticed that all the pedals that 'look' like Ibanez pedals now say "Maxon" on them. And there was an Ibanez OD808 model there but it was retailing for $200. Was there some sort of rights sharing going on? Maxon TS9 model costs now $20 more than the Ibanez variety but it looks the same as the Ibanez one. I really like the tone of the TS9 as an OD pedal. I also like Misha's signature OD pedal but it's probably more expensive and it definitely isn't so transparent.

Maxon made tubescreamers for Ibanez originally (up until about 2004 I think). Ibanez now makes them on their own. Maxon does their own thing separately from Ibanez. Most metal guys go for the Maxon stuff, but either brand would suit you just fine.

 

[YellowJacket]

Ah. I knew Maxon made the OD808 but I was just surprised that cosmetically, the new Maxon pedals looked like Ibanez pedals but with a different badge.

I definitely like a boost pedal. I find that even conservative settings just add a bit of bite, aggression, and tightness to the tone.

 

[b0nkersx1]

Check this out if you want a little more :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak_nWBdEMhg

 

[ryjan]

You should try an EQ between your guitar and amp. Then you can cut certain frequencies that cause the muddiness and boost the overall output before it hits the preamp.
It works just like a tube screamer type pedal but you'll have way more control over the boosts and cuts.

 

[LesPaul70]

You should try an EQ between your guitar and amp. Then you can cut certain frequencies that cause the muddiness and boost the overall output before it hits the preamp.
It works just like a tube screamer type pedal but you'll have way more control over the boosts and cuts.

+1

EQ pedals are your best friend when you are trying to sculpt and finetune your metal tone.

In front of your amp, they allow you to manipulate your gain structure. You want more tightness, less mud? Nothing simpler. Just adjust your EQ pedal accordingly.

In the FX loop, they are even more versatile. So you cut the lows to avoid mud and now miss that low-end thump? The loop is the place where you can bring the low frequencies back without excessive mud. Or maybe you need a volume boost and some more middles for your solos? Kick in your EQ pedal here.

IMHO an EQ pedal (or even two!) is one of the best pedals to have if you are playing metal.

 

[zerofivefour]

Try TAD 6L6 GC STR power tubes, I have heard that they sound like they were meant for a Recto, I'm going to retube with these.

+1

JC is right on the money with the power tube recommendation imho.

This is the secret sauce I've been using for years.
Also, might want to call doug's tubes and get their "hard rock" preamp kit. I have both the "hard rock" and "metal" preamp kits in two different amps: a 4 space rackmount dual recto, and a triple recto. The "hard rock kit" from doug's tubes and the TAD 6L6 really make the dual recto kick so much major butt it's not even funny. I did a review of both of them on this site about a year ago. The metal kit is scooped with more dark tones, and the hard rock kit has more mid range gnarl to it. That is my review in short.

Also try throwing a 3db clean boost in the fx loop and run that fx loop at maximum. Play on the red channel on modern mode. It really adds some punch.

FWIW,

I rock with an EMG 85 in my EBMM luke(s) all 3 and I have an 81 in my Ibanez 540s/sabre. The 85 is the clear winner for me and my dual with the above tube compliments. The 81 is just too ice picky for my tastes. I played the EMG 81 from 1987 to 1997 and the EMG 85 from 1998 to now. It just seems to work better for me.

Last thing, try recording the amp using a 4x10 loaded cab, not a 4x12. It may blow your mind.

Good luck with your tone quest.
Cheers,

Tom

 

[wolf]

I never used OD or any pedal with my rev F recto...

What about this sound?pickup in that video is emg 85...
http://youtu.be/uu2K-HEuFgs

 

[Blaklynx]

You should try an EQ between your guitar and amp. Then you can cut certain frequencies that cause the muddiness and boost the overall output before it hits the preamp.
It works just like a tube screamer type pedal but you'll have way more control over the boosts and cuts.

+1

EQ pedals are your best friend when you are trying to sculpt and finetune your metal tone.

In front of your amp, they allow you to manipulate your gain structure. You want more tightness, less mud? Nothing simpler. Just adjust your EQ pedal accordingly.

In the FX loop, they are even more versatile. So you cut the lows to avoid mud and now miss that low-end thump? The loop is the place where you can bring the low frequencies back without excessive mud. Or maybe you need a volume boost and some more middles for your solos? Kick in your EQ pedal here.

IMHO an EQ pedal (or even two!) is one of the best pedals to have if you are playing metal.

Haha.... I've been writing about EQ pedals and what you can do with them for a long time on this site. Great minds think alike.... :lol:



PS. Sure I haven't taught you this? :lol:

 

[LesPaul70]

PS. Sure I haven't taught you this? :lol:

Don't think so, I'm just someone who has repeatedly tried to remove EQ from his pedalboard, convince myself that I don't need one and live without one ever since the 1980s...without success.

 

[Jorn218]

An EQ pedal or none will work better than a TS type for tremolo picked riffing. The TS type pedals are good to tighten up a rectifier for chugging styles of metal or ones where clarity is paramount like the ultra math technical stuff. If you are not playing this style then I am going to suggest you try the black and orange Boss pedal everyone loves to hate. Yes the MT-2 Metalzone.

If you use the MT-2 in front of your amp set similar to a boost. Level maxed and distortion at zero, the tone controls are like a mini parametric. Keep the treble under noon though else it will make your tone super brittle. Bass set until you hear it kick in then back it off a hair. Set the mids output(small knob) to noon, then rotate the mid freq. until you hear the yowl mid thing going on, then back it off until it just goes away, then cut the mid boost just until you hear the mids of the pedal drop off. This will give you a little bit of the compression needed for your speed picking where it will be a little rounder and you wont have to dig in so much with the pick.

You mentioned your pickups designed for rock that are more PAF oriented is a non starter. My Gibson V has Suhr Aldrich pickups in it which are super PAFs like the Rebel Yells. Just play the guitar with more aggression. The pickups will follow where you lead them.

I also suggest Tortex picks. I found the green or blue work best for me YMMV. You need to use the carpet method to sharpen them though. Run the pick edge along some indoor outdoor carpet from top of pick to the point slightly rolling the pick on each stroke. Do one side a few times, then the other until you make the rounded tip a sharp point. Should not take more than 4-5 strokes each edge of the pick. You can restore worn down picks the same way.

The string gauge you posted is too light for C# or lower. You are getting tired and tensing because you are chasing the strings as .11's are too light and tuned that low get too floppy. Try a heavy set of .12's or normal set of .13's. The strings will have a nice tension to them and will act like they are bouncing the pick off them. The .13's more so than the .12's.

Practice your alternate picking to where you are letting no more than a pick width pass the string on an up or down stroke. This is key to not getting your arm tired. The other is the mechanics of speed picking. The elbow is not the fulcrum point, the wrist is. Keep your elbow essentially locked but not tense and move the forearm instead. The only thing your forearm should be moving is rotating (stick your arm out palm down in front of you, now without moving your upper arm, rotate your hand until its palm up. That is the movement exaggerated) back and forth to bounce your wrist and hand to get you your tremolo picking. Watch a video on how a drummer moves his snare hand while doing a blast beat. They use their ring and pinky fingers to reset the stick for a downward stroke. You rotate your forearm to reset your wrist to move the hand with pick into the opposite direction of your last pick stroke. It is a different movement, but the concept is the same.

Last thing is attitude man. If you are playing the riffs and not becoming them then you will never get it and will always have difficulty.

There is also nothing wrong with adjusting your playing as your arm starts to get tired until you are fully comfortable with the material. Your arm starts to burn? go ahead and hit the root chords of a riff during one repetition, then jump back in with the picking. It's metal. It isn't the mechanical industrial perfection pop that is being passed off as metal these days which is about as interesting to listen to as opera. It is nice from a musicians standpoint, but doesn't really get the head bobbing and fist pumping.

Take the above for what it is worth. This is my opinion, you are free to agree with some all or none. Do what works for you.

 

[chris osborne]

Had a pretty cool metal tone on my old series one rectoverb 50 on vintage with a fulldrive.

Chris

 

[YellowJacket]

Thanks to everyone for very valuable input!

I think the root of the problem was the guitars I was using. I got a Super Strat and put some Bare Knuckle Juggernauts in it. I didn't care for the stock EMGs (85 / 81) but now the tone is absolutely crushing through the Recto and it screams through the Electra Dyne as well. (The Juggernauts are phenomenal pickups, excelling at clean, rhythm (high and low gain), and leads / soloing (High and low gain). It's positively mind blowing.

I'll probably end up getting a boost at some point but for now, I've got live / rehearsals covered. Recorded it sounds pretty great but not quite cutting / tight enough for my needs yet.