Dumb question from a Lonestar newbie -loading power tube

[ozboy]

Please excuse the ignorance, I am a 35 year acoustic player but now want to learn something about electrics. So I bought a v1 Lonestar.

I read that I have to overdrive the power tubes to make "real" melody style sounds. My question is if I turn the master volume right up (say 8) but have the channel volume down for home playing (say 2) am I loading the power tubes?

Its easy to fiddle the gain and drive to overload the preamp but I was hoping to work on the power tubes without YADT (yet another divorce threat).

TIA
ozboy

 

[MrMarkIII]

Overdriving the power tubes without an attenuator involves playing loud. There's no way around it.
Turning up the Master (or Output) and turning down the Channel volume results in a clean sound. For power tube overdrive at low volume, you need to crank the volume BEFORE the power tubes, then reduce the loudness AFTER the power tubes. An attenuator such as a THD Hotplate will do this. You hook it up between the amp and the speaker. It absorbs some of the energy output by the amp before the energy gets to the speaker. It has a knob to control just how much attenuation you want, all the way down to zero. It's really just a great big resistor, and yes, it will get warm, as the energy gets dissipated into the air as heat. But that's where all energy goes, anyway.

 

[ozboy]

The thd attenuator seems to review ok. Does it change the tone much? I'd love to get tone at low volume. Probably should have gone with the LSS but the classic was going for a good price on eBay.

 

[J.J]

What type of music do you want to play ? Some styles are really built on power tube overdrive, but others are fine without. I play blues and really love power tube overdrive. I have several small tube amps to help with volume, but still I rarely get to hear it.

the LSS or LSC with the 10 watt mode would be better for you, but you still have what you have As far as attenuators go, they have their place, but trying to take a 50 watt output down to bedroom level will loose some tone. I'd only use one at a gig where I just need to knock the volume down 6dB or maybe 9 dB at the most.

Power tube overdrive is probably that last 5 or 10% and I can generally be happy without it.

Another piece of the equation is the speaker and what it does at high volume. Speaker breakup or cone cry only really develop at high volume. That is likley part of why people are generally not fully happy with attenuators.

 

[MrMarkIII]

I've tried the THD and a Weber attenuator, and really couldn't tell much difference from just using the master volume.
The attenuators change the tone so you end up EQ-ing the amp again and it's another 5 lbs. to drag around for little tonal improvement. I'm just really used to using the master volume on my amp.
Like everything else, some folks swear by them, some swear at them.

 

[ozboy]

I like to play melody blues with rhythm. In a perfect world it would be a cross between ec and Larry Carlton with Hendrix effects and inspiration. In reality itsc3 variation of 12 bar in e and the odd bit of acoustic style flat picking, I'd likevto say doc Watson.

Actually the amp seems to make some interesting noises as it is. Perhaps the attenuator can wait for a while.

 

[J.J]

Ok, my advice would be to really get to know your amp before you go for that last chunk of tone. The Lonestar is such a great amp and can really get some stunning tones without cranking it.

Jimmy and early EC will give some great examples of pushed power tubes. Others would be almost all Freddie King songs and a good number of SRV songs. Not sure about Carlton, have to get some of his tunes.

Getting the power tubes going will also add another level of sustain.

 

[ozboy]

Hi J.J.
For a taste of Larry Carlton try "Take your Pick" with Larry and Tak Matsumoto, 335 records other than the first track. It can be slow but the tone, song construction and phrasing get me listening time and time again.

Hmm. Pleased to be part of the Mesa community right now.

 

[J.J]

Thanks for that Ozboy. I had a look at some of the "take your Pick" tracks on Youtube. Not what I'd usually listen to, but your dead right about the tone, phrasings and general song crafting. Yet another guitar master.

If you haven't already, try the bass down low 8:00 to 9:00 perhaps. The Lonestar as with most Mesa amps is very powerful in the bass and it can easily cloud the overall tone.

 

[SRVYJM]

You might also want to try putting a delay or something in the loop and turning the send down. It acts almost like an overall master volume. I use it a lot when playing at home to maintain my stage tone at less then ear shattering volume.

 

[ozboy]

Thanks for that suggestion. So far I've left the effects loop hard off. Have a deluxe memory man coming today so I'll put that in and see what happens.

Another possibility is the "THD Yellowjacket".

A third possibility is just to get the LSS as well. There's one in the local music shop that looks at me regularly.

I have an older Cornford 6 Watt class A amp with EL84 tubes in it. I'm wondering if that will give a similar tone to LSS channel 1 using the 5 wattt setting. Really I didn't like the Cornford sound that much, probably just hadn't fiddled with it enough.

This electric stuff is complicated I've just worked out that only one of the pickups on the ES335 I play with makes a nice sound.

Maybe lower gain pickups could also be factor?

 

[bushwackbob]

SRVYJM: How are you setting your Master and Output levels when you have a delay in the Loop, with the send signal low? And are you talking about at what is shown as "minimum" on the send as "low"? Thanx!

 

[ozboy]

I compared the Cornford 6 Watt sound with the master turned up to 5 am, preamp at 12 with the LSC. Preferred the LSC even though the classic power tubes must have been barely coasting. Had both amps running through a Boss 1 into 2 switch for instant changes. Cornford didn't give me the power tube bite I was looking for.

Finding I can get a significant variation in tone with changes in picking style.

 

[ozboy]

Er the Cornford weighs about 1/3 of the LSC. Where is all the weight in that amp, in the transformer?

 

[ozboy]

Nothing new to report other than the amp is a ton of fun. I have no desire or need, let alone talent to play to large audiences but the LCS is a great amp.

Next step is to get a PRS 305 and try out some single coil stuff.

 

[ozboy]

so I started using the effects loop with a "Memory man Deluxe." The effects loop changes the tone and volume completely. Even when the Memory Man is off, it can still be heard in the background. For some material it sounds nice but it completely ruins the clean tone.

Is there a footswitchable way to turn the effects loop switch on or off? Or would that require a mod?