C+/Mk V shootout, pt. 1

[lesterpaul]

First of all, let me say it was a ***** having to play the Les Paul thru so many different amps today..****!!
cut to the chase:Les Paul Standard/Bare Knuckle Rebel Yell pups/EV loaded Thiele cabs/Lehle pedal/Evidence Audio cable/Mk V/various C+'s/6 somewhat burned out ears/scared furry friends
...we retubed my V so it was "stock"...I will let Joey detail his C+ amps...
A. clean channel-Joey's flame C+ hs the best clean tone, so we wanted to dial in the V..results-tweed setting/90 watt mode/bold got the V close to the C+..difference?"sub low"

B. chan 2(V)-we just dialed in a bruuuutal Mk I setting(thanks to Jay and Joey B.)...chan. 2 was fun!!Mk I...not too dark!secret??I'm not tellin'!!
C. lead channel-this is where the deal is at, based on pg. 14 of manual-
..is it all hype??marketing??/well.......as you will see from the pics, you seasoned C cats will get a good feel for the differences...
-let me say that we were able to do some serious tweakage, and once we took the channel master to 3 o clock, we were able to get a lot closer to the rage of Joey B.'s black doom C+ head(the hotter one...)
the difference? "sub low"
-when you set the V to mk Iv, the larging coupling cap comes into play-the manual calls the smaller cap "tighter, more urgent.."yep, they are right
-now, Doug W. might prefer that tone(many might..)...however, the Board members of NAMM didnt..BUT IT WASNT FAR OFF-THIS AMP ISNT A BUST....-the manual pretty much nails it
-as Joey and Jay will attest, no reason to sell the +...BUT its out of bounds to say the V is a bust-we tested /tweaked all day-it was close!!check out the settings to see how the V was tweaked to match the C+ in the lead mode for comparison/contrast(output volume and efx level send both at 12 o'clock on mk V):

..if there is any doubt about the models we did/could test...THE BIGGUNS'....

THE LITTLE UN'S...

...let the madness begin

 

[JohnDNJ]

I'm drooling. :lol:

Whatever the outcome you guys came to...I'm sure getting there was fun as hell.


Awesome.

 

[GIG4FUN]

You guys rule!
All the talent could get anything to sound golden!

Did you have any mongrel amps to twist away with to see how close you could get it to sound to goodness? That could have been some fun entertainment on a break! I swear if was there I would have sneaked one in! and challenged then superglued the knobs.

Thanks for that hard work and writeup (pt. 1)

 

[njsurf]

can I come and play :shock:

 

[Monsta-Tone]

First of all, let me say it was a ***** having to play the Les Paul thru so many different amps today..****!!

:mrgreen: Sounds like you need a PRS then! :mrgreen:


That is a very sweet setup! Wish I had been there too! You're really not helping my GAS, but BROKE situation! :lol:


How many tubes is that? I bet just the tubes cost more than my truck! :lol:

 

[lesterpaul]

How many tubes is that? I bet just the tubes cost more than my truck! :lol:

..ha!..hmmm..prob. around 80??lots o' glass.....some of those bottles are like fine wine 8)

 

[Vigo1999]

interesting is that to have the same amount of bass you really have to push the 80hz and 240hz faders on the V's eq.

but well, c'mon! you guys put the candy on our mouths and than take it?? where are the clips????

 

[JOEY B.]

interesting is that to have the same amount of bass you really have to push the 80hz and 240hz faders on the V's eq.

Yeah, we all noticed that, as well. This may have been a result of my use of the "Pull Deep" on the C+. The comparison settings in the MkV manual sounded very similar (with the EQ off on both amps), but we wanted to see what it would look like with the EQ active on both amps. There were more low mids present on the original C+ than on the MkV (in the C+ mode). Most likely they were due to the coupling capacitor mentioned in the MkV manual. We found the low mids by switching the MkV into the MkIV mode, but then the higher frequencies darkened somewhat. So there you go, all of us heard the same thing.

The MkV clean channel needed to be on the "tweed" setting with the gain at 9 o'clock and the channel master raised fairly high to reproduce the "spank" that came from the STR-415 loaded C+. Again there were some low mids present in the C+ that could not be 100% dialed into the MkV. The low mids add a sort of thickness to the clean tone. Some people may like it, and some may not.

All in all, the MkV is a great buy for the money. It would be very hard to hear these subtle differences, if you were not A/B-ing the amps side by side.

 

[chipaudette]

Where did you set the presence on the IIC+?

Thanks,

Chip

 

[JOEY B.]

Where did you set the presence on the IIC+?

Thanks,

Chip

pres = 3

RFT 12AX7 in v1,v2 New production MESA 12AX7 in v3,v4 GT12AX7M matched triode in v5

STR-415/416 power tubes in the black tolex C+

 

[lesterpaul]

but well, c'mon! you guys put the candy on our mouths and than take it?? where are the clips????

...clips?did you see those pics??brother, we are BROKE! :lol:

 

[lyman]

but well, c'mon! you guys put the candy on our mouths and than take it?? where are the clips????

...clips?did you see those pics??brother, we are BROKE! :lol:

Lol! Broke and loving every second of it I bet.

When's pt. 2 coming out? Sounds like the Mark V is doing ok so far!

 

[lesterpaul]

yes..I am sure we have a few more tricks up our sleeve-we didnt have time to compare with each amp,but there is still some experiments to come....we didnt get to experiment with el-34's,etc...gives us another e xcuse to do some tweakin'

 

[kiff]

so, from what I've read, the m5 has a great c+ tone and unless you're cork sniffing and/or using a spectrum analyzer, you shouldn't be afraid of getting a 5 over a c+

is that a fair interpretation?

 

[JOEY B.]

so, from what I've read, the m5 has a great c+ tone and unless you're cork sniffing and/or using a spectrum analyzer, you shouldn't be afraid of getting a 5 over a c+

is that a fair interpretation?

The only exception would be if you really wanted massive amonts of bass in you lead channel. By looking at the graphic EQ on each amp, you will notice that the original C+ has much more slider left on the 80 and 240 Hz (the "Pull Deep" was active on the C+). You also did not need a spectrum analyzer to notice the difference in the low mids.

 

[bpm91]

Great to see some true comparisons. Awaiting parts 2 through 1,000,000.

 

[JOEY B.]

Great to see some true comparisons. Awaiting parts 2 through 1,000,000.

We did everything possible (outside of identical tubes) to eliminate any variables. They each were played through a pair of Boogie thiele cabs loaded with OEM EVM-12L speakers placed equal distances from opposing walls. I wanted the MkV loaded with factory tubes so that it would be "showroom stock". Part 2 will most likely involve some preamp tube changes in the MkV.
8)

 

[lesterpaul]

so, from what I've read, the m5 has a great c+ tone and unless you're cork sniffing and/or using a spectrum analyzer, you shouldn't be afraid of getting a 5 over a c+

is that a fair interpretation?

...I wouldn't be afraid of getting one if I was a gigging musician looking for a lot under the hood..If you dont want to risk your C+ in a smokey bar,this is a great route to go-I wouldn't go as far as saying "getting a V OVER a C+"...I think the individual could only make that decision by spending time with both...there are things the V can do that the C can't, and vice-versa
I own both...I prefer the C for overall tone/love the versatility of the V(the ability to dime gain and volume in tweed..its killer!!/channel two has a different voice as well,with crunch/edge/mk I)...glad I have both looking forward to a little tube-aroo next time

 

[Shang Chi 66]

Hey Les, thanks you guys for the effort & sharing the results!

As I,ve mentioned before, I,ve never owned/played any other Marks, so it,s nice to know that I have a good (80-90%?) representation...way cool!

If you have one handy, when you do the preamp tube swaps, could you try a tung sol in the v1? I,ve been too busy tweaking the outside to fiddle around with the inside yet! :lol: (by the way, what pre,s are in there now?)

 

[lesterpaul]

Hey Les, thanks you guys for the effort & sharing the results!

As I,ve mentioned before, I,ve never owned/played any other Marks, so it,s nice to know that I have a good (80-90%?) representation...way cool!

If you have one handy, when you do the preamp tube swaps, could you try a tung sol in the v1? I,ve been too busy tweaking the outside to fiddle around with the inside yet! :lol: (by the way, what pre,s are in there now?)

I have the "stock" tubes that came with amp-a GT 12ax7 M sounds sweeet in v1,however..good luck in finding one
will keep you updated!