Road King II or Mark V?

[FactaNonVerba]

Folks,

I know this topic has been covered ad nauseum (sp?), but after viewing numerous other threads, I still have some very specific questions regarding these amps. I could probably answer some of them myself, if I had access to both amps, but I don't. I've only spent a significant amount of time on the Mark V, since it seems virtually impossible to find a RK II anywhere other than the Mesa Hollywood store. I have been there, but the guy seemed more interested in selling me on the virtues of the Mark V than letting me try the RK. I've also seen all the Youtube videos, but I'd hate to base my full opinion off of compressed digital audio.

I play some classic rock (think 70's, some 80's), grunge, anything 90's, blues, some more modern stuff, and reggae, but not much in the way of metal.

Alright, so that's a little background. Now for my questions.

1) I've heard some state that Mesa EL-34s don't really sound too much different in their amps than 6L6s. Is this the case? Or is it not as noticeable until you really crank it?

2) Some have said--without going into any further detail--that they thought the progressive linkage/speaker/loop assignment circuitry detracted from the overall tone of the Road King. Has anyone here observed this? If I went with the RK, it would be specifically for these features, which is why the Roadster is not in my lineup.

3) How does each of these amps sound at bedroom levels? I'll be playing at these volumes for a while, until I can get a band together to jam/play out with.

4) Which one pulls off a better Marshallesque (think JCM) tone? This is not my primary reason for getting one of these amps, which is why I'm not going for the Electra-Dyne or RA.

5) If I do go with the Mark V, which cab does it sound best with?

I'm not planning on basing my purchase solely on internet advice, but it sure would help in focusing my search. Thanks in advance for any replies!

-FactaNonVerba

 

[LesPaul70]

I have both amps, here's my take:

1) I've heard some state that Mesa EL-34s don't really sound too much different in their amps than 6L6s. Is this the case? Or is it not as noticeable until you really crank it?

Not too different? Whoever said that either hasn't personally tried both EL34s and 6L6s in the same Mesa amp or has rotten ears. IME, they change the amp character quite a bit. Yes, it is still the same amp but the feel and the fundamental tone are a little different. EL34s give you more midrange presence and crunch, 6L6s give you more bottom end and depth.

Now here's the problem: an amp that tries to cover a lot of bases and different style amps, like a Mark V or a Road King/Roadster, cannot optimally serve each and every tone with just one power tube type. For Fender cleans, you would ideally want 6L6s. For British tones, EL34s would be preferable and so on.

I swapped between EL34s and 6L6s in my Mark V until I settled on EL34s. Its channel 2 was almost unusable to me with 6L6s.

Now, the Road King obviously has a solution to this dilemma, and it's a great one. It also demonstrates how much of a difference the power tubes can make. Try switching between different power tubes on a Road King - if you don't hear a difference, there's something wrong with your ears.

2) Some have said--without going into any further detail--that they thought the progressive linkage/speaker/loop assignment circuitry detracted from the overall tone of the Road King. Has anyone here observed this? If I went with the RK, it would be specifically for these features, which is why the Roadster is not in my lineup.

Sounds like someone is trying very hard to justify the choice of a Roadster over a Road King. :lol:
(So does the #1 argument you posted above, too, by the way.)

Well, yes, like many other 2000's Mesas, compared to some classic last century Mesas, the Road King does sound colder and more modern. But so does a Mark V and a Roadster and a 3-channel Rectifier...

A Road King definitely doesn't sound worse than a Roadster. Same power tube choice, they sound almost identical. At least any difference you hear will be much smaller than that caused by your power tube choice.

As for the features themselves, I personally have absolutely zero use for cabinet switching and a second effects loop. But Progressive Linkage is one of the best features Mesa has ever invented and alone reason enough to own a Road King!

3) How does each of these amps sound at bedroom levels? I'll be playing at these volumes for a while, until I can get a band together to jam/play out with.

They both sound pretty darn good at bedroom levels but neither sounds optimal until you open it up a bit. IME, a Mark V will handle both extremes (bedroom volume vs full blast band volume) a bit better. 50 watts on 2 power tubes (Road King II) can still be too much for a bedroom, and at band volume, you may need to EQ your Road King a bit more carefully to cut through in the mix. The Mark V will cut through anything.

4) Which one pulls off a better Marshallesque (think JCM) tone? This is not my primary reason for getting one of these amps, which is why I'm not going for the Electra-Dyne or RA.

Neither can cop it perfectly, either can produce an acceptable emulation. They just use different means to get there, and the results are slightly different.

With a Road King, you need to use EL34s (optionally with a pair of 6L6s) to get there. Try Brit, Raw or Vintage modes.

With a Mark V, EL34s are a must. After that, just use the Edge and Crunch modes and your ears.

5) If I do go with the Mark V, which cab does it sound best with?

I'm not an expert on cabs, although I do have 4 cabs. But they are all Mesa cabs.
I like Recto cabs with my MkV. The Mark V can use that extra thump.

 

[FactaNonVerba]

LP70,

Thanks for the reply! That makes my decision quite a bit easier.

 

[LesPaul70]

You're welcome.

Personally, I think both are great amps, and you really cannot go far wrong with either.

But there is a fundamental difference between the Mark V and a Recto, like Road King II. The Mark V is very tight and focused, almost to a fault. while a Recto is pretty much the opposite - huge, loose, thick-sounding. No matter which channel and which mode you choose, the fundamental amp character persists, and will have a huge effect on the amp sound and feel. It is much more significant than any of the differences discussed above (like different power tubes).

You really need to make sure which amp type works better for you. Chances are one works and the other doesn't (at least half as well). IMHO, this should be your biggest concern when choosing between the two.

 

[Given To Fly]

Here is what I would do: Buy a Road King II from a store that has a decent return policy. Try out the Road King II with the manual at your side for a week or so. If you like it more than the Mark V, keep it. If you like the Mark V more, return the Road King II and purchase the Mark V. Both of these amps cost a lot of money and music stores are usually accommodating to customers who are making such purchases. Thats what I would do, but I also know I would be keeping the Road King II. :wink:

 

[FactaNonVerba]

Again, great info/advice. Thanks to both of you. I'm currently leaning toward the Road King II based on YouTube clips and what I'm hearing here. Given: That sounds like a great plan. When I finally scrape up the cash I need, I think that's what I'll do. Thanks again!

 

[ryjan]

From what you play I'd lean towards the RK also. It covers an amazing range and there isn't a bad sound in that thing. The Mark V is one of my favorite amps of all time as well but it's a bit more mission specific than the RK. :lol:

 

[FactaNonVerba]

From what you play I'd lean towards the RK also. It covers an amazing range and there isn't a bad sound in that thing. The Mark V is one of my favorite amps of all time as well but it's a bit more mission specific than the RK. :lol:

My thoughts exactly.

 

[discordance_axis]

I'd agree with trying both before you buy or as already suggested find a store with a returns policy. It's a lot of money to always be wondering ""What if?". There's more to an amps characteristics than what you hear, it's to do with how it feels also. You also need to try it with your own guitar as well, that makes a huge difference.

The power section on the RKII only comes into play once the amp is pushed, and I mean pushed beyond bedroom levels. Playing around with the progressive linkage at low volumes only seems to increase / lower bass frequencies (as well as a slight change in volume). However, that's not to say that it sounds bad at lower volumes. In fact It doesn't sound bad at all at these volumes.


It's funny, Reading about your trip to the Hollywood store reminds me of myself. I'll share the story for fun:

I was making the exact same amp choice 4 years ago. While I did a world trip traveling through Asia, Australia & the USA I fore planned a trip to the Mesa store in Hollywood 6 months ahead in order to try a Road King and the (then brand new) Mark V. I can't remember the guys name but when I told him that I was from England and explained how scarce Mesa amps are over on this side of the pond (and expensive!) and that I really wanted one but didn't know which, he was very helpful and let me try both amps. I was in the store for over an hour! It was awesome. We went through all the features on both amps. I mean come on, that's pretty cool considering he knew from the start I was not exactly going to buy the amp in the midst of back-packing around the world so It's not like I was a potential customer. I did buy a T-Shirt however! Anyway he really helped me decide.. Well actually He didn't because I loved both amps so much I had to have both! Haha.

Sorry for straying off topic. I hope you find the amp for you. I stand by my advice, try for yourself before you buy. The internet can only help you by a small amount and you really need both amps in the same room as you to know for sure. Good luck!

 

[LesPaul70]

The power section on the RKII only comes into play once the amp is pushed, and I mean pushed beyond bedroom levels. Playing around with the progressive linkage at low volumes only seems to increase / lower bass frequencies (as well as a slight change in volume).

That's not entirely how my experience with the RKII Progressive Linkage has been...I do hear certain very clear sonic differences at relatively low volumes (home-playing volume, trying out different sounds). For example, EL34s definitely give your tone more midrange body and fullness. And then there was the one case where I tried to clone my clean tone on channels 1 and 2...and could never quite succeed, I got very close but when I switched the channel, the sound and the feel were different, like on totally two different amps. I thought there was something wrong with my ears, I was hearing things, hallucinating, or something
....then I realized I had different Prog Linkage settings on the two channels. (facepalm!)

But do take anything about the RK II with a grain of salt. I'll be the first to admit I'm still not an expert on that amp. I still haven't tamed mine for band use. The band-volume sounds I dial on my RK II at home still fail in various ways when I actually go live with the band...(I may be posting about this on the Recto subforum shortly.)

 

[discordance_axis]

The power section on the RKII only comes into play once the amp is pushed, and I mean pushed beyond bedroom levels. Playing around with the progressive linkage at low volumes only seems to increase / lower bass frequencies (as well as a slight change in volume).

That's not entirely how my experience with the RKII Progressive Linkage has been...I do hear certain very clear sonic differences at relatively low volumes (home-playing volume, trying out different sounds). For example, EL34s definitely give your tone more midrange body and fullness. And then there was the one case where I tried to clone my clean tone on channels 1 and 2...and could never quite succeed, I got very close but when I switched the channel, the sound and the feel were different, like on totally two different amps. I thought there was something wrong with my ears, I was hearing things, hallucinating, or something
....then I realized I had different Prog Linkage settings on the two channels. (facepalm!)

But do take anything about the RK II with a grain of salt. I'll be the first to admit I'm still not an expert on that amp. I still haven't tamed mine for band use. The band-volume sounds I dial on my RK II at home still fail in various ways when I actually go live with the band...(I may be posting about this on the Recto subforum shortly.)

Then you have a much better ear than I do for these things. In my defence I'm riddled with tinnitus and play with ear plugs (even at lower volumes). I'm going to have another play and listen harder next time I fire it up. Sorry for the misinformation.

 

[FactaNonVerba]

I'd agree with trying both before you buy or as already suggested find a store with a returns policy. It's a lot of money to always be wondering ""What if?". There's more to an amps characteristics than what you hear, it's to do with how it feels also. You also need to try it with your own guitar as well, that makes a huge difference.

The power section on the RKII only comes into play once the amp is pushed, and I mean pushed beyond bedroom levels. Playing around with the progressive linkage at low volumes only seems to increase / lower bass frequencies (as well as a slight change in volume). However, that's not to say that it sounds bad at lower volumes. In fact It doesn't sound bad at all at these volumes.


It's funny, Reading about your trip to the Hollywood store reminds me of myself. I'll share the story for fun:

I was making the exact same amp choice 4 years ago. While I did a world trip traveling through Asia, Australia & the USA I fore planned a trip to the Mesa store in Hollywood 6 months ahead in order to try a Road King and the (then brand new) Mark V. I can't remember the guys name but when I told him that I was from England and explained how scarce Mesa amps are over on this side of the pond (and expensive!) and that I really wanted one but didn't know which, he was very helpful and let me try both amps. I was in the store for over an hour! It was awesome. We went through all the features on both amps. I mean come on, that's pretty cool considering he knew from the start I was not exactly going to buy the amp in the midst of back-packing around the world so It's not like I was a potential customer. I did buy a T-Shirt however! Anyway he really helped me decide.. Well actually He didn't because I loved both amps so much I had to have both! Haha.

Sorry for straying off topic. I hope you find the amp for you. I stand by my advice, try for yourself before you buy. The internet can only help you by a small amount and you really need both amps in the same room as you to know for sure. Good luck!

The guy I spoke with at the Hollywood store was also very helpful. I hope it didn't sound like I was saying otherwise. The thing is, though, I got the feeling (from him, as well as others, in other shops) that he was really trying to sell me on the Mark V. That might just have been my perception, though. But yeah, I'm definitely going to try the Road King before I buy. As you said, that's too much dough to be throwing around carelessly.

 

[FactaNonVerba]

The power section on the RKII only comes into play once the amp is pushed, and I mean pushed beyond bedroom levels. Playing around with the progressive linkage at low volumes only seems to increase / lower bass frequencies (as well as a slight change in volume).

That's not entirely how my experience with the RKII Progressive Linkage has been...I do hear certain very clear sonic differences at relatively low volumes (home-playing volume, trying out different sounds). For example, EL34s definitely give your tone more midrange body and fullness. And then there was the one case where I tried to clone my clean tone on channels 1 and 2...and could never quite succeed, I got very close but when I switched the channel, the sound and the feel were different, like on totally two different amps. I thought there was something wrong with my ears, I was hearing things, hallucinating, or something
....then I realized I had different Prog Linkage settings on the two channels. (facepalm!)

But do take anything about the RK II with a grain of salt. I'll be the first to admit I'm still not an expert on that amp. I still haven't tamed mine for band use. The band-volume sounds I dial on my RK II at home still fail in various ways when I actually go live with the band...(I may be posting about this on the Recto subforum shortly.)

I just read your post in the Recto subforum. Very interested in hearing how this works out for you.

 

[LesPaul70]

Then you have a much better ear than I do for these things. In my defence I'm riddled with tinnitus and play with ear plugs (even at lower volumes). I'm going to have another play and listen harder next time I fire it up. Sorry for the misinformation.

I wouldn't call it "misinformation". I would say it's probably just that some players are just more sensitive to these things than others. Me, I've been through a 6L6->EL34->6L6->EL34 cycle with my Mark V just because I couldn't decide which power tube type I wanted to keep. Their feel was very different to me - I had to play differently. For example, I felt that the EL34s were more 'forgiving' in certain ways whereas the more rigid and clinically 'objective' 6L6s underlined and emphasized every tiniest sloppy attack or bad timing (both of which I'm guilty of more often that I'd like to acknowledge).

In the end, I decided to go with the EL34s because they sounded richer, crunchier and more 'alive'. Also, their high end character was much more agreeable to my ears than shrill icepick of 6L6s, and they made channel 2 modes work much better.
The drawback was that I had to compromise the low end depth and sound three-dimensionality.

 

[LesPaul70]

I just read your post in the Recto subforum. Very interested in hearing how this works out for you.

Yeah, I'm still learning... :?

The RKII is indeed turning out be quite the puzzle to dial in. Not exactly what I expected. I got such awesome tones at home at first, it seemed like every knob combination was a match made in heaven. Totally unlike Mark amps that can take hours or days or weeks of non-stop dialing before you find the golden tones.

Then my RKII went live with a band for the first time, and reality hit rock-bottom hard. I still haven't had a night with the band where the RKII sounded even half as good as it did alone at home. Which is actually kind of surprising, since my 2-channel Rectos sound great at home and drop-dead gorgeous in the band mix, with no special dialing or tweaking required. I believe a part of the reason is that the Road King is based on the more modern 3-channel Rectifiers, which do require some tweaking or you can get fizz and other kinds of unwelcome sounds. At least a 2-channel veteran like me obviously cannot expect their 2-channel experience to translate directly into Road King/3-channel Recto settings.

 

[FactaNonVerba]

Sorry to hear it's been so hard to dial in. I wonder how much the different cabs have to do with it...I hope you figure it out soon.

 

[dlpasco]

I own a Road King II, and I own a Mark V.

I have had the Mark V for two years and the Road King for more than a year.

At this moment I can not tell you which one I would prefer to keep as I learn something new about them almost every week, and I play them pretty much daily.

If I had to make a Sophie's choice I might pick the Mark V over the Road King, but I'd be traumatized about it for years . Since I can't bring myself to do that, I have them both. You would likely love either one.

Folks,

I play some classic rock (think 70's, some 80's), grunge, anything 90's, blues, some more modern stuff, and reggae, but not much in the way of metal.

That's enough right there for me to suggest the Road King II. The Mark V is versatile, but more metal to me. I have similar tastes musically to you, I think, with some jazz and a lot of metal thrown in as well, which is part of my own problem

However, They are both excellent amplifiers and you will likely be very happy with either one.

1) I've heard some state that Mesa EL-34s don't really sound too much different in their amps than 6L6s. Is this the case? Or is it not as noticeable until you really crank it?

I think it makes a big difference, really, if you are looking at the Mark V. I reached the point where I ditched the EL34s in the Mark V, in part because some of the tones where I might use EL34s are available on the Road King. I also found that, although EL34s made Edge mode pretty interesting, I didn't really care much for what it did to my cleans.

2) Some have said--without going into any further detail--that they thought the progressive linkage/speaker/loop assignment circuitry detracted from the overall tone of the Road King. Has anyone here observed this? If I went with the RK, it would be specifically for these features, which is why the Roadster is not in my lineup.

Nah. Not at all.

3) How does each of these amps sound at bedroom levels? I'll be playing at these volumes for a while, until I can get a band together to jam/play out with.

They both sound really good at bedroom volumes. And better and louder volumes.

4) Which one pulls off a better Marshallesque (think JCM) tone? This is not my primary reason for getting one of these amps, which is why I'm not going for the Electra-Dyne or RA.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Road King II's Brit mode (Channel 2), with EL34s, does this best, if you crank the channel's master volume on it. I have a hard time getting a good clean tone at an audible volume on Channel 1 at the same time if I do this though, because cranking 2’s master volume means that I need to turn the amp's output volume down quite a bit.

5) If I do go with the Mark V, which cab does it sound best with?

I like rectifier cabs with it, although I am currently running my Mark V through the speakers of a Tremoverb combo loaded with V30s. I've played through C90s and V30s and prefer the later.

To the person that had their RK tone change in their band mix, have you checked the FX loop level? It makes a significant change in the overall tone, and can be harder to spot while playing unaccompanied once your ear gets accustomed to it.

 

[FactaNonVerba]

Thanks, dlpasco! Between your advice and that of the others who've responded, I'm definitely leaning toward the RKII. Now if only I had the money...

 

[LesPaul70]

To the person that had their RK tone change in their band mix, have you checked the FX loop level? It makes a significant change in the overall tone, and can be harder to spot while playing unaccompanied once your ear gets accustomed to it.

Yeah, you are definitely on to something here. After a few more band sessions with 'King, I'm starting to notice the same thing. If I cut the FX level send too much, I lose top-end bite and brilliance and my sound becomes muffled. OTOH, if my channel Masters are too low, I get fizz, which was my initial problem. So the key to good tone seems to be finding the ideal balance between the channel Master volumes and the FX send volume. Closing in on it (I get closer and closer every session) but haven't quite unlocked the sweet spot yet.