Mark V 90 watt tube rolling

[timothymartin220]

Maybe you're already aware, but the 10W mode uses the two left tubes (as viewed from the rear) and the 45W mode uses the inner tubes. Of course 90W mode uses all 4 power tubes. So, when mixing colors between inner and outer a cocktail of colors is actually being used for the 10W mode and the 45W mode would only use one of the colors. Not sure what effect this would have on amp performance or tube life etc.

Yup...I am aware , but MESA made the tubes to fit and BE INTERCHANGEABLE in these sockets and the use I have put these to is in the realm of reasonable...the PROPER tubes ARE IN the proper sockets...(Mesa says how to pair them...all we did was listen to them)(they NEVER SAID you couldnt mix types...only you had to use THEIR TUBES...and buddy...WE DID)..I DID NPOT interchange tube colors in the sockets they are intended for...THAT should be the only consideration...(meaning I didnt mix inner and outer...I kept them in the proper orientation and placement...there is NOTHING in the Mesa literature that says you cannot mix them this way)...now maybe they see this and speak up...then I WILL FIGHT WITH THEM because the tube sets they have are really NOT the greatest...or we wouldnt have to DO THIS!!!! ALSO forgot to mention...I never use 45 or 10 watt mode...worthless modes that sound like bass-less ****...the one issue I have with the Mark V is it is really not a very bass heavy amp and losing ANY bass destroys the tone!!! SO NO TO 45 watt and 10 watt mode(I wish they would give a mod to switch to 90 watt only and let us mix the el-34 and 6l6 like earlier Marks...it was the 10 watt mode that made them NOT pursue this in this amp!!! ( hate 10 WATT mode...the sacrifice for this mode was WORTHLESS)

 

[mace]

I really like the 10 W class A mode. Glad they added it! I use this mode the most, all the time actually, except at gigs. It sounds lush and gooey and not as woody as the other wattages. Good power tube breakup as well when playing low gain, high volume.

 

[timothymartin220]

The funny thing is....now after ALL this...I still have the power tubes we have been discussing...but ALL the gimmick tubes are out. I am back to 12AX7's all throughout. (the only difference is i have 5 Gold Lion Russian tubes...the gold pin...not for the gold pin but tube design...but they really sound a lot like the JJ Mesa SPAX7 tubes). I have a Variac at the wall I use for regulating power (we have Niagara power in upstate New York so the fluctuation is pretty severe at times)...I keep my wall power locked at 120 volts...works best for all my amps. MY big issue is the changed circuit Mesa have in the later amps, so matching tones of earlier Marks aint possible with the amp itself...however put my 31 band Ashley eq in the loop and just use it to tweek the onboard eq and it is working for all I need....in fact i am not even bothering with my other amps at all...i have channel one set to tweed...channel two Mark 1(I have this set to a surprisingly low gain value and it still has an over the top feel that can be instantly cleaned up with the dial of the volume!!! GREAT crunch tone/screaming lead) and channel three Mark 2C+...I have the EQ's (both onboard and offboard) active at all times and balanced to sound amazing on all three channels...I am , for the first time REALLY getting everything I need out of THIS one amp...(the fact is I FINALLY got over this NEED to tone match John Petrucci....lol...and while this amp is WAYY too saturated to properly do THAT one (I mean MY personal head, it is a 2016 model and i am POSITIVE changes have been made to get rid of icepick highs)(I really have to EQ the **** to get that tone)...it has a natural tone that I am coming to believe actually smokes the **** out of the tone I HAVE been attempting to emulate!!!! And for all its flaws I have heard others have had massive issues with the power sections...mine has behaved flawlessly...my footswitch and 12v power diodes WERE an issue however.

 

[bandit2013]

No offense intended to Bandit , he is one heck of a guy and VERY smart, but THAT suggestion was totally ME! Thank you very much!!! (AND AS I TOLD BANDIT...a total accident , one of my short bottle tubes burned out and all I had was the tall bottle for spares...thats what got me to mix them...I preferered the sound of the short bottle tubes and left the good one in...so the mix!!!!)

Not offended. I gave him the opportunity to try it, based on your recommendation. It is a good blend to try if one has not had the opportunity to do so.

 

[timothymartin220]

Ahh...my bad...I assumed he read it here and mistakenly attributed the recommendation to you and not me (based on this thread)...I was unaware that you actually told someone about that little trick. Nevermind (I suppose I should be flattered that it will probably take on a life of its own now, which IS kinda cool)

 

[rarebitusa]

I really like the 10 W class A mode. Glad they added it! I use this mode the most, all the time actually, except at gigs. It sounds lush and gooey and not as woody as the other wattages. Good power tube breakup as well when playing low gain, high volume.

Yes I'm with you with that, 10 W mode is really sweet

 

[tbonesullivan]

I also really like the 10 Watt mode, and Honestly I end up using Channel 1 and 2 far more than Channel 3, at least at present. The high gain channel definitely takes the most skill and tweaking to get a sound you like, and it's also REALLY FREAKIN LOUD.

 

[bandit2013]

Ahh...my bad...I assumed he read it here and mistakenly attributed the recommendation to you and not me (based on this thread)...I was unaware that you actually told someone about that little trick. Nevermind (I suppose I should be flattered that it will probably take on a life of its own now, which IS kinda cool)

It is cool man. I was asked what would go well with a pair of STR440 greens. Considering that tube is no longer in production, the STR441 came to mind almost immediately. Based on what you are using, I tried it myself as I had STR440 greens and STR441 greens. Thanks for that.

 

[Wolfgar926]

PLEASE and thank you, not one mention of this topic. Everyone talks about the V-4 and V-6 AT7 "Mod" but not one person points out the obvious. The V-4 and V-6 positions are THE ideal positions for tube rolling. I find that V-4 gives you marked changes to the gain of channel one and two and V-6 gives you the desired effect for the red or channel three. I do not know why these are important to the sound, by reading the schematic you would THINK that v-3 and v-2 were a LOT more important but there it is. I currently have a Gold Lion 12ax7 in v-6 and a chinese 12ax7b in v-4 (I have Gold Lion in every other position except PI...which is a custom graded Mesa 12ax7-a Russian (Find one of those). The Gold Lion sounded a little stiff in the first two channels, EH was DARK, I had JJ's in and they were ok so settle on Chinese for now, although I have a feeling I would LOVE Tung Sol in this position (v-4)...and the Gold Lion in V-6, forget about it!!!. Good luck. (Which tube you use matters, I had a Gold lion in v-6 and it was NOISY...changed it and now the gain is tight and noise free...same tube and it isnt exactly like Gold Lion are cheap...but there it is...some suck even when you pay an ignorant premium)

 

[bandit2013]

Based on above, V4 is only for tailoring the CH3. V6 if not using the FX loop also tailors CH3.

The most important tube of all is the Phase inverter V7.
What has a lot of influence on tone are: V1, V3, V6 (when using the FX loop) and V7.
Sticking with the stock Mesa 12AX7 (JJECC83s) lends itself to a boxy tone. May also be related to ice pick characteristics. Mullard CV4004 will enhance the boxy tone. Gold Lion B759 is basically the Mullard reissue long plate 12AX7A tube. Also same as the Sovtek LPS but do not expect them to sound the same. Mullard LP and the GL B759 sound the same to me. I have one of the GL B759. The Gold Lion Standard ECC83 tube is a Chinese version, gen 9 or something like that. I have a few Ruby branded versions and the Preferred series 7025 tubes. Not bad tubes but can be bright.

The saturation mod originally was targeting V6 in hopes to correct the FX loop issue. The original poster removed his posts from the thread, so you do not get the concept. The V4 trick was to curb the ice pick issue with some Mark V. I literally had to dial back on the gain and treble just to use CH3.

the STR441 Power tubes are a good fix for the ice pick tones. A decent moderate gain tube in V1 like a Svetlana 12AX7 is a good choice for defined cleans and aggressive high gain. There is not much gain on V1 but enough to push the following stages. Since V3 is active in all three channels, a typical gain stage but will influence tone considerably. This tube position will define how slopy the bass will sound or how tight it will sound. The final tube in the lineup is the Phase inverter. It is not a high gain circuit but does affect tone depending on tube quality. Mullard 12AX7A long plate reissue is wll balanced and I found does not add to muddy tone or too bright. V4 and V5 are basically the lead drive circuit for CH3. Simple as that. The Saturation mod does not address anything other than CH3. In some cases, changing to the JAN/Philips 12AT7 may not do much of anything different. I found that out recently. Once you get away from the Mesa 12AX7 (JJ ECC83s) you can really change the overall effect of the Mark V90. It is just a matter of experimenting to find what works for you.

 

[timothymartin220]

Based on above, V4 is only for tailoring the CH3. V6 if not using the FX loop also tailors CH3.

The most important tube of all is the Phase inverter V7.
What has a lot of influence on tone are: V1, V3, V6 (when using the FX loop) and V7.
Sticking with the stock Mesa 12AX7 (JJECC83s) lends itself to a boxy tone. May also be related to ice pick characteristics. Mullard CV4004 will enhance the boxy tone. Gold Lion B759 is basically the Mullard reissue long plate 12AX7A tube. Also same as the Sovtek LPS but do not expect them to sound the same. Mullard LP and the GL B759 sound the same to me. I have one of the GL B759. The Gold Lion Standard ECC83 tube is a Chinese version, gen 9 or something like that. I have a few Ruby branded versions and the Preferred series 7025 tubes. Not bad tubes but can be bright.

The saturation mod originally was targeting V6 in hopes to correct the FX loop issue. The original poster removed his posts from the thread, so you do not get the concept. The V4 trick was to curb the ice pick issue with some Mark V. I literally had to dial back on the gain and treble just to use CH3.

the STR441 Power tubes are a good fix for the ice pick tones. A decent moderate gain tube in V1 like a Svetlana 12AX7 is a good choice for defined cleans and aggressive high gain. There is not much gain on V1 but enough to push the following stages. Since V3 is active in all three channels, a typical gain stage but will influence tone considerably. This tube position will define how slopy the bass will sound or how tight it will sound. The final tube in the lineup is the Phase inverter. It is not a high gain circuit but does affect tone depending on tube quality. Mullard 12AX7A long plate reissue is wll balanced and I found does not add to muddy tone or too bright. V4 and V5 are basically the lead drive circuit for CH3. Simple as that. The Saturation mod does not address anything other than CH3. In some cases, changing to the JAN/Philips 12AT7 may not do much of anything different. I found that out recently. Once you get away from the Mesa 12AX7 (JJ ECC83s) you can really change the overall effect of the Mark V90. It is just a matter of experimenting to find what works for you.

So, this is late but here is the update on my search for proper nirvana with this MArk V amp....I REALLY decided to get rid of it a month or two ago and when I did started trying things I had never done before...REALLY. One is I went to Mark I mode and found a low gain (on the dial) setting that SCREAMED.....now...the normal Mesa articulation went out the window for this tone...but I found some semblance of heaven!!! Mark I mode....Normal position i[-on the thick switch....90 watt...gain at 10:00...volume at 10:00, presence at 2:00, Treble maxed, Mid at 2:00 and bass at 7:30(not minned)...using the geq...normal mesa V (I cut the 240 a tad more severely...but that is my taste)...and ride your volume to go from clean to crunch. Also the lead channel...stick it in Triode mode (blends well with the channel 2)...and channel 1 goes tweed mode all day...it is kinda a triple threat now...and it IS ADDICTING>>>>>I havent touched a knob in months....go from channel to channel having a blast (the contrast of the SMEAR of sound that channel two is like this with the full articulation of tweed and the wall of tone on three...and well...cant get enough!!! AMD WAS GOING TO SELL IT..CHEAP!!!! Channel two is as best as I can describe...a wall of Marshall only with a smear of sound motif thrown in...articulate ...NO!!!! Like I said...I have Tweed set up to do the ariculate thing (*from crunch to clean)...channel two does this smear of sound thing (crunch to clean), and the three drive channels with triode engaged...blends with these other two channels so much better than Pentode (in triode..2c+ becomes a single note thing and mark iv a chord thing...and extreme comes when you NEED that extra definition and clarity, articulate...kinda...the closest this amp comes to it, at least in the high gain stages...tweed and clean are the height of articulation , actually I would call them the pinnacle of moldable...you can get them to smear or behave)(who knew thinning the tone this way would help this much!!!)...it objectively sounds better in pentode...and in practice sounds better in triode (meaning play it out of context and you will pick pentode every time...play it in context with other things going on and your trying to match channels for tone and feel and triode become SUPER useful)..I dont play with others enough!!!! For me this was a revelation!!



i swear I CAN spell...my keyboard is **** and I get tired of correcting.

 

[bandit2013]

You are not alone on thinking to ditch the V and move on. I have been on there since 2013 shortly after I got the Mark V90. Why I still have it? Have no clue. Every time I get a new amp, like the JP2C in 2016, want to see how it compares. Then recently the Mark VII. Lets tube roll again, and again.

Here is a new song in light of the "rolling on a river" CCR. Gotta keep on rolling, rolling, rolling the Mark V. How does it compare to the JP2C? rolling, rolling, rolling the Mark V. Got a new amp the other day, they call it the Mark VII, so how does it compare? Rolling, rolling, rolling the Mark V. I can't stand it in triode or pentode, what is this terrible noise I do hear? Rolling, rolling, rolling the Mark V.

 

[timothymartin220]

You are not alone on thinking to ditch the V and move on. I have been on there since 2013 shortly after I got the Mark V90. Why I still have it? Have no clue. Every time I get a new amp, like the JP2C in 2016, want to see how it compares. Then recently the Mark VII. Lets tube roll again, and again.

Here is a new song in light of the "rolling on a river" CCR. Gotta keep on rolling, rolling, rolling the Mark V. How does it compare to the JP2C? rolling, rolling, rolling the Mark V. Got a new amp the other day, they call it the Mark VII, so how does it compare? Rolling, rolling, rolling the Mark V. I can't stand it in triode or pentode, what is this terrible noise I do hear? Rolling, rolling, rolling the Mark V.

Yup..it is the Herpes of amps...once you get it...no matter how much you might want to...you cant get rid of it!

 

[domct203]

I spent more time tube rolling and knob twisting than playing my MKV90. For a long time I just couldn’t let it go, I think some of that was psychological; ‘but it’s a Mark series’ guilt I carried. There is an inherent resonant mid-frequency in the high gain modes that I just don’t find pleasing. I also found that any decent presence setting to make the amp cut also made it shrill. It was always a love/hate thing with that amp, I wouldn’t play it for a few months then plug in and love it. But after an hour or so I was right back to hating it LOL.

Finally let it go a couple of years ago, I just played it to keep the caps fresh. I guess I miss the amp, but don’t regret selling it at all.

Dom

 

[timothymartin220]

I spent more time tube rolling and knob twisting than playing my MKV90. For a long time I just couldn’t let it go, I think some of that was psychological; ‘but it’s a Mark series’ guilt I carried. There is an inherent resonant mid-frequency in the high gain modes that I just don’t find pleasing. I also found that any decent presence setting to make the amp cut also made it shrill. It was always a love/hate thing with that amp, I wouldn’t play it for a few months then plug in and love it. But after an hour or so I was right back to hating it LOL.

Finally let it go a couple of years ago, I just played it to keep the caps fresh. I guess I miss the amp, but don’t regret selling it at all.

Dom

Personally did the Studio Pre (miss it)..Triaxis(have it).. and Mark V...now just want a IV and forget the tone quest for EVER!!!

 

[Eevil]

I’m on my second Mark V and even though it has its quirks it’s still solid amp with glorious tones

Went thru many amps and kinda got fed up with chasing tone ghosts every day mind interpretation of the actual tonality will differ and will piss or please me the player.. and listening to Euge Valovirta’s videos about the Crunch/Edge modes I reconsidered the Mark V again

Stock preamp tubes and mesa str in power amp

This is a great amp

 

[bandit2013]

Personally did the Studio Pre (miss it)..Triaxis(have it).. and Mark V...now just want a IV and forget the tone quest for EVER!!!

If you seek the mark IV, you have two options. Look for a Mark IVA version (it is the short head version) or get the Mark VII. The Mark IVB (wide body) is just as boxy as the Mark V.

The Mark VII does come with sticker shock, So does the Mark VIA on the used market. Mark VII is the same size as the JP2C. the JP2C has far more tone density but it could be the STR415 tubes I have in it. Mark VII does some justice to the IIC+ and IV modes. The Mark V cannot touch it. Then there is the crunch and VII modes. almost similar to the V (using Extreme instead of the VII mode) it gets sort of close. What is a better match to the crunch and VII would be the Badlander crunch and crush. Almost a dead match but totally different preamp circuits.

 

[domct203]

I want to add another Mark Series back into my stable, but I know for certain it will not be the MKV90 for me. Regardless of what I tried, tubes, speakers, boosts, etc, it’s just not my amp.

I’m stuck between the JP2C & the MKVII, but that’s for another thread.

Dom

 

[rarebitusa]

I’m on my second Mark V and even though it has its quirks it’s still solid amp with glorious tones

Went thru many amps and kinda got fed up with chasing tone ghosts every day mind interpretation of the actual tonality will differ and will piss or please me the player.. and listening to Euge Valovirta’s videos about the Crunch/Edge modes I reconsidered the Mark V again

Stock preamp tubes and mesa str in power amp

This is a great amp

plus no one says "Mesa Boogie" better then Euge

 

[Eevil]

plus no one says "Mesa Boogie" better then Euge

Curse or benefit being a Finnish

Your lingua franca is built completely different than our tribal communication