Best solution for headphones on Mark V?

[brianpozar]

Hi!

I want to be able to use my Mark V late at night and crank it more than I can now by switching to headphones. The most obvious answer would be the Cab Clone but it doesn't seem that simple because I've read lots of reviews stating that the headphone out on the Cab Clone was an afterthought and sounds fairly flat. I'd love to get the most out of having such a high-end practice amp and if the headphones sound anemic, I would have buyer's remorse.

Anybody have a good alternative solution? I haven't used cab simulators or attenuators before so I'm kind of lost when looking at those options.

Anybody using the Cab Clone in this way with good results?

Another question is, what would be a good way to inject mp3's into the mix so that I can silently practice with backing tracks.

Being able to record is not a requirement, just a nice to have.

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

 

[primal]

There are no low cost solutions I am aware of.

You could go this route

http://www.soundpure.com/p/two-notes-torpedo-live/9370?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=feed&gclid=CJfV_rKr9MICFfPm7AoduloAjQ

I have heard some great recordings with that.

But again, that probably is a lot more than you want to spend.

If I were going to spend that much money, I would try to find an axe fx standard or ultra instead.

 

[Agustín Collia]

Another alternative to that would be to buy the Cab Clone and try the headphone out, and if you're not satisfied pair it with a soundcard such as a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4. If you go that route, you'd be using an XLR cable from the Cab Clone's direct output to one of the soundcard's inputs, then connecting the headphones to the soundcard's headphone out. This will also allow you to add backing tracks from your computer as well as record silently.
Also remember that every part of the system counts, if you buy $20 headphones, it'll sound like crap whether you're playing through a POD or through a Mark V.

 

[drs]

Trying to listen to a MkV with headphones is like driving your funny car on a 2 mile commute to work. I'm sure it can be done but why? I'd buy a low cost modeler and use that. I can't see many solutions that would sound better and the one's that are slightly better than a modeler are all $500+.

 

[domct203]

Trying to listen to a MkV with headphones is like driving your funny car on a 2 mile commute to work. I'm sure it can be done but why? I'd buy a low cost modeler and use that. I can't see many solutions that would sound better and the one's that are slightly better than a modeler are all $500+.

+1

The money you will spend for a proper load box/cab sim etc would be better spent on a good practice rig.

I use a Yamaha THR10 for practice outside of the band room. Remarkable little practice amp, and a much better option for headphone practice.

Dom

 

[brianpozar]

I appreciate all the replies and thoughtful advice.

To address the replies thus far.

1. I built a Champ clone (5F1 circuit) about a year ago so I do have a great practice amp. But that amp actually has a higher low volume threshold than the Mark V. So I typically practice more with the V at night (which is just about the only time I get to play).

2. Not using $20 headphones. Have the Audio-Technica ATH-M50x which are supposed to do a pretty good job for non-professional headphones.

3. I've done the modeling route. Had a line 6 head and a couple POD's over the years. Couldn't stand them. My reasoning for wanting headphones on the Mark V is because I want real tube tone and to be able to crank the master more. Also, I want to utilize my effects board (which includes nice pedals like the Strymon El Capistan). I've definitely had GAS for the AxeFx II but I want to play, not tweak presets all day. Plus, I feel like modeling has another generation or two before it really arrives. Also, I can use my Mac or iPad (I have an adapter) along with GarageBand or even RockSmith for some basic modeling.

4. The Yamaha THR is something I will look at some more over the weekend. I'm not sure I'll go with that but it is an intriguing looking little box.

I think I'm still sort of leaning towards the CabClone just because of the price point and the fact that I can get the most out of my investment in the Mark V. But I'd still love to hear any other suggestions if anyone has them.

Also, if anyone has the CabClone or the Mark V:25, I'd love to get your input.

 

[Agustín Collia]

I don't have a Cab Clone or a Mark V:25, but I've been intrigued by the Cab Clone and the V:25 because of other reasons (mainly consistency in the sound from venue to venue). Here are 2 clips I found on youtube that were recorded with the Cab Clone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exTQMltTfWo&list=FLsu9kjysnnToYy_BFY1VC-w&index=36
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BjXdDQ6oZo&list=FLsu9kjysnnToYy_BFY1VC-w&index=37
Don't know if it's your style of music, but hope it will give you an idea of what the Cab Clone is capable of.

 

[primal]

I appreciate all the replies and thoughtful advice.
...

3. I've done the modeling route. Had a line 6 head and a couple POD's over the years. Couldn't stand them. My reasoning for wanting headphones on the Mark V is because I want real tube tone and to be able to crank the master more. Also, I want to utilize my effects board (which includes nice pedals like the Strymon El Capistan). I've definitely had GAS for the AxeFx II but I want to play, not tweak presets all day. Plus, I feel like modeling has another generation or two before it really arrives. Also, I can use my Mac or iPad (I have an adapter) along with GarageBand or even RockSmith for some basic modeling.

I would disagree on modeling requiring another generation. I own an Axe FX II (also owned a standard and ultra) and in my opinion it has arrived. Unfortunately it cost an arm and a leg. As far as tweaking, I don't mess with any settings that are not standard amp settings. I think those who do get in that tweaking rut do because they can. But I also think that is also a lot of internet chatter from folks who are just passing on what they heard about the early generation axe fx (standard and ultra) which was still phenomenal but did require a little tweaking under the hood that the AXE FX II does not.

Back on topic.

I think I'm still sort of leaning towards the CabClone just because of the price point and the fact that I can get the most out of my investment in the Mark V. But I'd still love to hear any other suggestions if anyone has them.

Also, if anyone has the CabClone or the Mark V:25, I'd love to get your input.

As luck would have it I picked up my Mark V:25 yesterday and used cab clone last night.

I actually have to admit I was impressed with it. I was not expecting it to sound as good as it did.

I would put it on par with some of the palmer speaker simulator recordings I had heard in the past. Very usable!

That said, if I am recording the mark V25 I am micing the cab, cause as good as cab clone sounds, it's still not the same as running it through a cab.

But it may be good enough for what you are looking for.

As far as injecting an MP3 so you can play to backing tracks.

The best way I can think of would be a recording interface.

My Axe FX II is my recording interface so I can't comment on others, but I would assume even the cheapest ones would be able to be output devices for you computer so you could hear your computer audio through your headphones and here the output from cab clone.

This way you could play mp3 backing tracks from your band on your computer and play along, or even go to guitarbackingtracks.com and play along to that as well.

I think I used one of those cheap m-audio devices years back like this.

At the end of the day, I do understand wanting to use your own amp, even if it is in a very impractical way.

I don't think cab clone will be as good as micing your amp, but it is still pretty good imo. A lot better then I expected it would be.

 

[primal]

what type of music do you play?

If I have time this weekend maybe I can record some clips for you with the cab clone.

Been using it more this morning till the family leave.

More and more impressed with it the more I use it.

First thing is that you have to EQ it differently then you would going through a cab. Which of course makes sense given that if I switched cabs with different speakers I would also have to eq it differently.

But I am finding after playing with the EQ and adding some room reverb to the sound it is pretty **** good.

 

[brianpozar]

I play a wide variety of music. A little 60's, 70's rock, 80's metal, Satch, a tinge of jazz, blues, and country. A bit of classical. Nothing from today. For purposes of the Mark V, if you were to record something, a heavy riff with a ripping lead would be good.

I saw something on another site that made me realize some of the complaints about the Cab Clone sounding quiet or flat were coming from people who weren't pairing it with a Mesa Head and/or weren't running at 100 watts or had high impedance headphones. Being that the device is passive, it seems you've got to put a good deal of juice through it to get the volume.

Based on the above and the latest comments, I think I'm going to bite the bullet. I think it is going to give me what I'm after.

I really appreciate the responses, you guys are very helpful. I'll update this post and share my experience after I get it.

 

[primal]

Here is something I threw together this afternoon.

Enter Sandman

https://soundcloud.com/sarge117/cab-clone-test-enter-sandman

No post recording production. All Delay and reverb added as it was recorded so it is similar to what you would do with your pedal board.

Sorry, I don't have a wah so the leads do not have it.

Doesn't sounds as good as the real cab, but still usable in my opinion, and better then I was expecting it to sound.

 

[brianpozar]

Cool, thanks Primal. I think that sounds more than adequate for my purposes. Of course, the real test will be when I have my headphones on and whether or not I can "feel" the music.

Nice playing too. I thought I was duped into listening to the actual Kirk part there at first.

 

[primal]

Ha!

Thanks for the comments.

Yeah if you listen close enough you'll probably hear some mistakes.

Here is the backing track I used.

http://www.guitarbackingtrack.com/play/metallica/enter_sandman_(3).htm

The cab clone feature is pretty cool. Not perfect, but better then anything else in that price range IMO if you want to use your own amp.

 

[Jiveman]

Hi,

I'll chime in as well... I have a MKV head and was struggling finding ways to use it in my apartment. Even the 10-watt mode was too loud for my environment. Got the CabClone finally. Really happy with it!

There are two separate ways that I think of CabClone: 1) practicing, and 2) recording. But I do them DIFFERENTLY, and that's an important distinction, for me. Let me explain.

I don't use the headphones output from CabClone, but when I tried it initially, I thought it sounded good enough for practicing, and most-importantly, it allowed me to use the amp and settings very similarly to how I'd do it live (plus I could use whatever pedals or EFX in the loop, etc.). The way I connect it is with an old, tiny analog Behringer 2-channel mixer. Computer sound card goes to mixer. Cabclone XLR output goes to another channel on mixer. Mixer output goes to computer speakers (decent Sony's, but nothing fancy). I hit play on computer in whatever audio player I want. Play along, or practice.

EDIT: Oh, and, an analog mixer like this usually has a headphone output. So if I want to, I can use headphones with the mixer. USB interfaces can do that too, I think. But I would do this instead of using headphones from CabClone, as I don't have anything but the MKV in it.

The sound doesn't have the same feel or oomph as through a cabinet, as you can't really get the air movement. But, I don't need that. I need to practice through the amp, using its settings and tweaking channels along the same way I would when playing through a cab.

I also have a small USB interface (Presonus AudioBox) and that is connected with my mixer, too. I don't use it for practicing. Just for recording.

Now... recording... different story. I recorded the CabClone XLR output into my PreSonus USB device, and it was "OK," meaning better than nothing, and certainly good enough for recording quick ideas and whatnot. But, what I found that worked for me MUCH better is using cabinet Impulse Responses (IRs) in an DAW (I use Reaper). I purchased Mesa Rectctifier V30 cabinet IRs from Redwirez. Now, the connection: In this case, the CabClone acts as just a dummy load box (connected to MKV speaker output as normal). But then I take the MKV Slave Output directly out of MKV head and into my USB interface. This is the raw, nasty, unprocessed signal. I record that in my DAW. Then I apply Recto V30 IRs on top of that, trying different kinds (there are many, many different mics and positions available). I can even combine multiple mics and settings and I can try them without having to re-record my original guitar track, until I find the tone I like.

So long story-short. For me, CabClone + XLR output into a small analog mixer (or USB interface) and I'm happy for practicing. CabClone + MKV Slave Out + Cabinet IRs, and I'm happy for recording.

I guess the third use for me is live. Instead of micing the cabinet, I go MKV into CabClone and then CabClone passthrough into cab. Then CabClone XLR into sound board. Unless you have great quality mics, mixers, speakers, AND sound engineers, this method works better than using a cheap mic. And no stage sound bleed, of course.

Good luck.

 

[brianpozar]

Really interesting post there on your recording and practice setups Jiveman. I think I'll be coming back to re-read this later.

For now, I wanted to post an update for anybody else that comes up with the same scenario as mine. I received my Cab Clone tonight and just got done jamming with it for the first time. I'll be keeping it. It gives me exactly what I was after. I can't tell much of a difference between the tone I'm getting in my headphones and the tone that comes from my vertical recto 2x12 with V30's. But now I can dime everything at 90 watts and not lose my hearing. It's cool because the harmonics come through so much more and the gain sounds much more throaty on channel 3. One thing I found is that I quickly ran out of headroom on channel 1 but rolling back the guitar's volume helped that a lot.

This is going to let me practice loud and have the music in both ears, rather than sitting right in front of the cab at 10 watts trying not to wake anyone up.

Now, if I could just get the Mark dialed into a tone that really works for me. I'm still on the hunt, but I have some EL34's on the way that I hope will get me closer.

 

[Jiveman]

Sweet! Glad you're liking it. I couldn't agree more regarding being able to use the 90-watt mode and dial things the way you'd really want to with a full cab. Also, any knob tweaking comes through as well, and allows you to keep learning and bonding with the amp. Just don't expect things to be exactly the same between how it sounds through CabClone/headphones and the cab, of course.

Regarding recording... I will add that one additional trick that CabClone allows me to do is, while using MKV Slave out into my USB interface to record it, I simultaneously take CabClone XLR out into my little analog mixer. This allows me to hear a "decent" guitar tone while recording, instead of listening to the harsh, unpleasant, raw Slave-out tone. After it's been recorded, I engage the IRs for playback and mixing, and all is well.

All in all, CabClone allowed me all this flexibility (plus better live usage, for my needs), and combined with the fact it is a passive device, equals one great unit and a good purchase, for me personally.

 

[primal]

Spent some more time with cab clone today.

Previously I had been using the xlr out, going to a little IMP
http://www.zzounds.com/item--WHRLITTLEIMP?siid=1672&gclid=Cj0KEQiA8rilBRDZu_G8hszXraoBEiQABlB9YyKcl3AXJ9mcF5qTL1LNJq18NMWpjtsapGUWYqQ9iWcaAmr-8P8HAQ

Going into the front of my Axe FX (Using a blank patch so just getting the Mark V25)

Today I used the headphone out and it sounds fairly different to my ears. Much better in fact then the xlr output. Has me wondering if I haver some impedance matching issue or something.

The headphones output sounds really good. The XLR output sounds good as well just brighter to me. Still sounds good, but a tad less warm then when listening straight out the headphone jack.

Anyone else using cab clone running into this?

Really has me wondering if I that impedence transformer is brightening it up somehow.

 

[rusted7cl]

you should use a torpedo live (or a studio)...
this things sound great and had a headphone out

for example..

https://soundcloud.com/gcespedes/where-the-shadows-fall-demo-blackflow

the guitars were a mesa mark V and a 5150III, i use only my torpedo VB101 for cab simulation...

i always use mi combo late at night for practice since i have the torpedo.