Black Shadow (Celestion), China or England made?
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YellowJacket
Well-known member
I think this topic has been beaten to death around there. As far as we know, Mesa claims that their rebadged celestions are UK made but who knows these days. If it sounds good, who cares where it was made?
not sure about the "Black Shadow", but the ones currently sold on Mesa's site are real UK made Celestions. I bought two V30 8ohm speakers, and they say Made In England on a gold Celestion sticker. They sound amazing in my Port City OS.
RR
Well-known member
They do? :shock:Grindjazz said:
My pair says: CELESTION INTERNATIONAL, LTD FOXHALL ROAD, IPSWICH, SUFFOLK, ENGLAND but it doesn't say "Made In England".
RR
Well-known member
TTSTWO, I'm just giving you a hard time :wink:TTSTWO said:
Personally I would not care what country they're built or manufacture but here's what I do have a problem: China has a problem NOT to stop "the assembly line". If say they run out of supplies from let say Celestion, the head manager supervisor will look for a local vendor to substitute supplies. To them stopping the assembly line is worst than manufacture items with substitute parts.
Remember when that supervisor that substitute lead paint in those Mattel toys? He was in so much hot water he commit suicide because China is now pressure to US regulation or they'll take their business else where. But we still don't know how many products did not meet these regulations.
I could rant one but I think we discuss this in "Off Topic" forum.
TTSTWO, I'm just giving you a hard time :wink:
Personally I would not care what country they're built or manufacture but here's what I do have a problem: China has a problem NOT to stop "the assembly line". If say they run out of supplies from let say Celestion, the head manager supervisor will look for a local vendor to substitute supplies. To them stopping the assembly line is worst than manufacture items with substitute parts.
Remember when that supervisor that substitute lead paint in those Mattel toys? He was in so much hot water he commit suicide because China is now pressure to US regulation or they'll take their business else where. But we still don't know how many products did not meet these regulations.
I could rant one but I think we discuss this in "Off Topic" forum.[/quote]
No problem.
I remember reading in here a while back that the Celestions Mesa uses in their cabs are indeed made in England but if you went to buy them off the shelf at your local music store, they sell the made in China brand. Is this true? I have not checked.
Personally I would not care what country they're built or manufacture but here's what I do have a problem: China has a problem NOT to stop "the assembly line". If say they run out of supplies from let say Celestion, the head manager supervisor will look for a local vendor to substitute supplies. To them stopping the assembly line is worst than manufacture items with substitute parts.
Remember when that supervisor that substitute lead paint in those Mattel toys? He was in so much hot water he commit suicide because China is now pressure to US regulation or they'll take their business else where. But we still don't know how many products did not meet these regulations.
I could rant one but I think we discuss this in "Off Topic" forum.[/quote]
No problem.
I remember reading in here a while back that the Celestions Mesa uses in their cabs are indeed made in England but if you went to buy them off the shelf at your local music store, they sell the made in China brand. Is this true? I have not checked.
RR
Well-known member
Gosh TTSTWO, I meant to give Grindjazz a hard time. :wink:
But as far a "special design", the pair I have looks no different than the other non-Boogie yet England Made Celestion Vintage 30s pair I have.
As far quality, I can't say the China Made are inferior but as mentioned I have issues with things made in China.
[warning rant, do NOT read if you don't like ranting ]
Last company I worked for (database administrator) the shipping / receiving department kept getting duplicate serial number (SN#) on our China base products we're distributing. We made it clear all SN# has to be unique and this was the second time this happened.
Anyway, I was getting blamed (both by the China co. and shipping / rec. depart. ) that my software application is faulty. I said it can't be since you cannot enter duplicate SN# as a new record in a database.
Anyway, three weeks go by and supervisor at the depart. asked if I discover the problem (that supposedly mine). I went to the shipping / rec. depart. and found the pellet full of products with duplicate SN# to those already stocked. I took a sample pictures of these two different products with same SN# and wrote a report. Just about to send to the China co. and ship. / rec. depart. when I received an e-mail that China co. admitted to duplicates SN#.
I could rant on but I'll leave it as that.
That is true, even on their website and an article in Guitar Player Mag. that they stated their Vintage 30's are special design by Celestion at the England Plant.TTSTWO said:
But as far a "special design", the pair I have looks no different than the other non-Boogie yet England Made Celestion Vintage 30s pair I have.
As far quality, I can't say the China Made are inferior but as mentioned I have issues with things made in China.
[warning rant, do NOT read if you don't like ranting ]
Last company I worked for (database administrator) the shipping / receiving department kept getting duplicate serial number (SN#) on our China base products we're distributing. We made it clear all SN# has to be unique and this was the second time this happened.
Anyway, I was getting blamed (both by the China co. and shipping / rec. depart. ) that my software application is faulty. I said it can't be since you cannot enter duplicate SN# as a new record in a database.
Anyway, three weeks go by and supervisor at the depart. asked if I discover the problem (that supposedly mine). I went to the shipping / rec. depart. and found the pellet full of products with duplicate SN# to those already stocked. I took a sample pictures of these two different products with same SN# and wrote a report. Just about to send to the China co. and ship. / rec. depart. when I received an e-mail that China co. admitted to duplicates SN#.
I could rant on but I'll leave it as that.
konstantine RK
Well-known member
well the people in China will soon be revolting for some better working conditions and better pay so you keep it real!
RR
Well-known member
That might be true, or that is expected but we don't know how the government will handle 'this'.konstantine RK said:
But look at Japan. If you remember the 70's where we frown on Japanese products. Now-a-days, Japan made guitars in the 70's, 80's are being snatch up. A lot of Made in Japan products are expensive and high quality (Macintosh hi fi gear) and that's because progressive standard of living went up same with their labor cost now companies are looking to the Far East like Korea, China, Indonesia, ...
... like a US old timer said: " ... probably not in my lifetime or my grandkids lifetime but US labor force will come back and I will be laughing in heaven how all those businessmen thought production overseas was the answers."
Yes, MESA Celestion are made in England. Most Celestion you purchase from Guitar Center are made in China.
... I purchase Weber's. Oh by the way, Weber Company just about had a relationship / dealing with about ALL US speaker companies which includes Eminence, Utah, Warehouse, Tone Tubby to name a few.
Thundersteel
Active member
A lot of people, including me. If it says "made in China" on it, then I won't buy it, unless it's not available from anywhere else.
RR
Well-known member
True, I would admit I'm a hypocrite too since I shop at Walmart and Harbor Freight.Rkorn said:
My point is state above with my dealing with our China Distributor for the company I worked for why I am reluctant to purchase China made product.
... Celestion has a plant in China to cut down on manufacture cost for some of their speaker models. I would have been nice for them to hand down some of the saving to their customers. True, they don't have to do that.
Case in point: Somewhere in the mid 80's Randall Smith got a solder station to manufacturer and distribute his amps faster to his customers. At that time, I notice he dropped his amp prices too. His amps were in such a demand, he probably could have kept to the original price.
Just sayin'
mikey383
Well-known member
Rkorn said:
I've never seen a V30 that had the wattage rating on it. Mesa has claimed they were rated at 70 watts, but have brought that down to 60.
There was a thread a while back about Chinese VS. UK made V30s. Problem was, they were comparing a broke-in UK V30 with a brand new Chinese V30. There was another thread, where after the Chinese speaker was broken-in, it sounded identical to the UK speaker.
A spox for Celestion posted on a thread in another forum and said that the only speakers made in the UK are the ones that specifically say "Made In England". Otherwise, they're made in China.
Cheapshoes
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Look for a little rectangular sticker on the side of the magnet somewhere (usually turned so you can't see it easily) that will state where it was made. The Mfr/importer has to state where it was made. The pretty name & address label sticker on the back of the magnet is a marketing gimmick. I would definately not get hung-up on where it was made. if there is a diff between speakers from these mfr plants, it's not the country of origin, but the specs and QC/iso-standards set by Mfr. management. I've had Schecters and ESPs made in Indonesia, Korea, and China, that are amazing guitars, and played Fenders from these same countries that I could not recommend to a third grader. OTOH, a Chinese Celestion speaker may be diferent from an England-made-one, but could be excellent for one application, and completely unsuited for another. Besides, last I heard, England is in very deep doo-doo financially, and is more likely to be looking for ways to cut corners and costs, than is China.
It would be a sign of poor marketing however, to have two standards for one speaker branded label - a great way to build a bad reputation. Better to call it something else so the customer knows what they are getting. Granted, this can be taken perhaps a bit too far .... Custom Shop Strat > Signature Strat > Am Dlxe Strat > Am Fender Strat > 50s/60s/70s Strat > Std Fender Strat > Vintage Vibe Strat > Std Squier Strat > "Affinity" Squier Strat "Strat Pak" Strat.. . But at least you have an idea what you are getting at whever level you choose, irrespective of location of manufacture.
It would be a sign of poor marketing however, to have two standards for one speaker branded label - a great way to build a bad reputation. Better to call it something else so the customer knows what they are getting. Granted, this can be taken perhaps a bit too far .... Custom Shop Strat > Signature Strat > Am Dlxe Strat > Am Fender Strat > 50s/60s/70s Strat > Std Fender Strat > Vintage Vibe Strat > Std Squier Strat > "Affinity" Squier Strat "Strat Pak" Strat.. . But at least you have an idea what you are getting at whever level you choose, irrespective of location of manufacture.
