New Mesa owner Mark V

Chiliphil1 · Oct 3, 2016

Hey guys, first post here.

Traditionally I'm a Marshall guy, but I was finding issue using my 2203 1/2 stack at home, so I sold it a while back and went to a Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister which did a great job of being a home amp but it was seriously lacking in the punch department. Great tone but no balls, at all. So, I tossed it on my local craigslist and a guy offered me a Mark V combo for it.. I think that was a pretty good deal on my end, so I went ahead with it.

So far I've been turning knobs and have gotten a great clean and a really nice crunch setting. I'm trying to do something with channel 3 but I am struggling! I'm sure I'll get it eventually but for now that one channel is kicking my butt! It's got lots of gain but sounds sort of thin and whooshy (not a word, I know) it's hard to describe but it just isn't quite right.. Anyhow, I'm sure I'll get that worked out eventually. For now I'm super happy with the other tones and can't wait to spend some time tweaking and getting everything right on it.

Just wanted to say hi to everyone and say that it's a great privilege to own a Mesa mark amplifier, these are almost holy amongst so many guitarists that just having it sitting in my home is amazing in and of itself, not to mention the tones!

Anyhow, if anyone has any tips I'll be glad to listen, I would love to have a Metallica tone on 3, Marshall on 2, and a clean.. if possible. Thanks!

BigBadWolf · Oct 3, 2016

Grats for your new amp.

First you'd like to know if your amp is technically ok. When people decide to sell their amps, they rarely bother to get new tubes for them. Common symptom of worn power tubes is lack of low end punch.

When it comes to ch 3 (or more or less all mark series hi gain amps/channels), you need to change your method of making sounds a bit. With a Mark you more like tune the drive and playability with your TBM-knobs and make the tone part in your eq.

So a quick DIY metal sound-ish workshop here. Ch 3, amp Mk IV, Gain 12-14 o'(clock), master 10, Presence 9, T 12, M 10, B 7-9. No eq at this point. You'll find out that putting T to the max doesn't actually give you that much high end but defines how hard your amp gets driven at that frequency. Same goes with the rest of the knobs. Especially B doesn't give you more bass practically after 9-10o', depending of your amount of gain. You may want to leave B all the way down in most cases.

What you can do next is turn your T all the way down and find out if you get the bright tones from your Presence. In that keeping your gain up happens by cranking your M up.

When you've played with TBM + Pres knobs enough, finish your sound with the real tone factory; the eq. Get to know meaning of The V and limitless possibilities of other variations. Also preset eq works in some sounds very well.

You said you're familiar with Marshalls. They, with practically all other "old" brands, have very little what you can do with their sound. Wih your V, you can practically re-make every amp in the world. Just figure out what kinda gain they use, find the "special" tone range (which is usually some kinda $10 worth of resistors and caps here and there) and have fun with remaking the next one thinking "yes, this cost 3 times as much as one of them but with this i have 30 more amps than they have". ;D

Chiliphil1 · Oct 3, 2016

BigBadWolf said:
Grats for your new amp.

First you'd like to know if your amp is technically ok. When people decide to sell their amps, they rarely bother to get new tubes for them. Common symptom of worn power tubes is lack of low end punch.

When it comes to ch 3 (or more or less all mark series hi gain amps/channels), you need to change your method of making sounds a bit. With a Mark you more like tune the drive and playability with your TBM-knobs and make the tone part in your eq.

So a quick DIY metal sound-ish workshop here. Ch 3, amp Mk IV, Gain 12-14 o'(clock), master 10, Presence 9, T 12, M 10, B 7-9. No eq at this point. You'll find out that putting T to the max doesn't actually give you that much high end but defines how hard your amp gets driven at that frequency. Same goes with the rest of the knobs. Especially B doesn't give you more bass practically after 9-10o', depending of your amount of gain. You may want to leave B all the way down in most cases.

What you can do next is turn your T all the way down and find out if you get the bright tones from your Presence. In that keeping your gain up happens by cranking your M up.

When you've played with TBM + Pres knobs enough, finish your sound with the real tone factory; the eq. Get to know meaning of The V and limitless possibilities of other variations. Also preset eq works in some sounds very well.

You said you're familiar with Marshalls. They, with practically all other "old" brands, have very little what you can do with their sound. Wih your V, you can practically re-make every amp in the world. Just figure out what kinda gain they use, find the "special" tone range (which is usually some kinda $10 worth of resistors and caps here and there) and have fun with remaking the next one thinking "yes, this cost 3 times as much as one of them but with this i have 30 more amps than they have". ;D

Thank you for the reply. I've spent more time with it and am more or less happy with the tone but the major issue I am having now is brightness. I've used the EQ, and the knobs and it's either too bright or it's muffled. I cannot seem to get it to a point where it isn't harsh. I'm actually using the extreme mode as the mark IV and IIc+ seem to be fizzy whereas the extreme is cleaner and more pronounced. Even the crunch is sounding bright to me but I have the EQ on "preset" with that channel.

I guess I'll have to keep working with it. Your explanation is very helpful that I should not consider the knobs to be effective in EQ but use the sliders to shape the tone.

BigBadWolf · Oct 4, 2016

Chiliphil1 said:
...major issue I am having now is brightness...

It can be difficult first. There is quite a lot to control in a V. Every pot or slide has its power sweet spot. The point where everyting starts to happen fast. First you turn yhe pot or move the slide for a quite long way without any dramatic change and then, before even noticing it, you're gone over. Avoid large adjustments when you get near the tone you wan't.

Practically everything that is round in your amp effects to gain and distortion points. However the rule changes when the gain is low enough. That takes its time to figure out. Roll out T--> roll it to 9 o---> to noon--> to 15--> all in, and you notice something odd. First you get more brightness, but after certain point the sound distorts and goes darker again. You also find out the "sweet spot" where it starts to happen. Since there is so many points where your amp makes distortion, you'll need to find your perfect mix between them.

You just need to find out the sweet spots. And when you do, near that move very carefully. Sometimes finding the perfect tone seems like trying to balance a football on a sharp knife. It is really that small moves. Location of said sweet spot moves a bit depending what you've done elsewhere. That's why i suggest really finding out what each pot and slide does before trying to make sounds perfect. Make some "average", turn every knob and slide to 0 and full and learn to pick out the frequenzy where it works. For example classic V shape in eq is a classic, but you may have to do even opposite of it to get your personal sound.

Don't be afraid of rolling everything down and starting all over again. You don't learn to operate your amp if you find a perfect tone by mistake and glue the pots in place. I know that a shortcut or two would come up handy, but in this the long route pays. Giving you exact positions for each knob don't help, since it changes with every guitar and every player. That's why all sound settings seen in internet are just starting points.

What you need also to remember, is that you have a V combo. With your open back C90 you don't actually do perfect tonal copy of 4 x 12 closed back with V30's in it. However keeping your combo on the floor "makes the earth move". Don't sit just in front of the speaker and try to get the sound since that doesn't work.

And don't try to find your perfect tone at smallest possible volume. Althou the amp has great master volume, the sound itself needs some room to breathe in. Usually when at normal practicing levels, you notice that you have overdone most of your sounds in your dark and silent bedroom (put some lights in there. Who lives in all dark? U even ok? ;D).

U want soften something? Try (just for an example) taking from T and go full M. Then cut the middle range out in your eq.

This may sound like i work in Mesa's advertizing department when i say that only your imagination limits what you can do with the amp. But no. Sadly no. Actually looking at my poor excuse of english should prove i'm not. I think that with their prices they can afford a person with skills in english ;D

All people coming from other brands to Mesa Mark amps should forget everything they've learned about making sounds to an amp. The sooner they do, the sooner they start to find their own sounds. The good ole M-think with bass and treble to noon and middle to 9 o' just doesn't work.

Chiliphil1 · Oct 4, 2016

BigBadWolf said:
Chiliphil1 said:

...major issue I am having now is brightness...

Click to expand...

It can be difficult first. There is quite a lot to control in a V. Every pot or slide has its power sweet spot. The point where everyting starts to happen fast. First you turn yhe pot or move the slide for a quite long way without any dramatic change and then, before even noticing it, you're gone over. Avoid large adjustments when you get near the tone you wan't.

Practically everything that is round in your amp effects to gain and distortion points. However the rule changes when the gain is low enough. That takes its time to figure out. Roll out T--> roll it to 9 o---> to noon--> to 15--> all in, and you notice something odd. First you get more brightness, but after certain point the sound distorts and goes darker again. You also find out the "sweet spot" where it starts to happen. Since there is so many points where your amp makes distortion, you'll need to find your perfect mix between them.

You just need to find out the sweet spots. And when you do, near that move very carefully. Sometimes finding the perfect tone seems like trying to balance a football on a sharp knife. It is really that small moves. Location of said sweet spot moves a bit depending what you've done elsewhere. That's why i suggest really finding out what each pot and slide does before trying to make sounds perfect. Make some "average", turn every knob and slide to 0 and full and learn to pick out the frequenzy where it works. For example classic V shape in eq is a classic, but you may have to do even opposite of it to get your personal sound.

Don't be afraid of rolling everything down and starting all over again. You don't learn to operate your amp if you find a perfect tone by mistake and glue the pots in place. I know that a shortcut or two would come up handy, but in this the long route pays. Giving you exact positions for each knob don't help, since it changes with every guitar and every player. That's why all sound settings seen in internet are just starting points.

What you need also to remember, is that you have a V combo. With your open back C90 you don't actually do perfect tonal copy of 4 x 12 closed back with V30's in it. However keeping your combo on the floor "makes the earth move". Don't sit just in front of the speaker and try to get the sound since that doesn't work.

And don't try to find your perfect tone at smallest possible volume. Althou the amp has great master volume, the sound itself needs some room to breathe in. Usually when at normal practicing levels, you notice that you have overdone most of your sounds in your dark and silent bedroom (put some lights in there. Who lives in all dark? U even ok? ;D).

U want soften something? Try (just for an example) taking from T and go full M. Then cut the middle range out in your eq.

This may sound like i work in Mesa's advertizing department when i say that only your imagination limits what you can do with the amp. But no. Sadly no. Actually looking at my poor excuse of english should prove i'm not. I think that with their prices they can afford a person with skills in english ;D

All people coming from other brands to Mesa Mark amps should forget everything they've learned about making sounds to an amp. The sooner they do, the sooner they start to find their own sounds. The good ole M-think with bass and treble to noon and middle to 9 o' just doesn't work.

Thank you again. Your English is just fine to me, no problems there.

I'm going to keep working with it, I had a great sound last night, just very bright. I used the sliders to pull the treble down and add some mids and it was almost there, just a smidge of fizz left that I'm trying to dial out. I am confident that I will get there but I am also confident that it's going to take me a while.

Monstercastle · Oct 4, 2016

Congrats! Love the Mark V. I have my head setup pretty the way you describe. Clean, Crunch, mayhem. Here's how I run mine most of the time in my studio through my Mesa traditional 412a. I also run an MXR 10 band EQ in the loop for minor surgical tweaks mainly to cut a little at 1K and add a little low end back in when I'm playing lower volume. The Hotplate is only used sparingly & because I already owned it. I've also added a Friedman BE-OD that I run into the clean (as set) for a killer hot-rodded Marshall tone.
Tubes are all fairly new because I bought the head new a year ago. I did swap out all the preamp tubes and replaced them with Mesa SPAX7's. Kept the others for spares. Amp is dead quiet. I'll never sell this beast.

Chiliphil1 · Oct 4, 2016

Monstercastle said:
Congrats! Love the Mark V. I have my head setup pretty the way you describe. Clean, Crunch, mayhem. Here's how I run mine most of the time in my studio through my Mesa traditional 412a. I also run an MXR 10 band EQ in the loop for minor surgical tweaks mainly to cut a little at 1K and add a little low end back in when I'm playing lower volume. The Hotplate is only used sparingly & because I already owned it. I've also added a Friedman BE-OD that I run into the clean (as set) for a killer hot-rodded Marshall tone.
Tubes are all fairly new because I bought the head new a year ago. I did swap out all the preamp tubes and replaced them with Mesa SPAX7's. Kept the others for spares. Amp is dead quiet. I'll never sell this beast.

Thank you for the picture. I'll dial that in and see what I get. I am becoming more and more convinced that my problem is the fact that it's a combo. I'm now getting killer tone but it's so fizzy and thin.. I'm going to have to look into getting a cabinet and then see what I've got.

For anyone who is interested currently here are my settings.

Variac power setting

Channel 1
fat, EQ off, 90 watts, bold
G 10:00
T 11:00
M 1:00
B 10:30
P 12:30
Vol 5:00

Channel 2
crunch, EQ on, 90w, EQ preset
G 3:00
T 8:30
M 10:00
B 10:30
P 11:00
Vol 10:00

Channel 3
Extreme (or MKIV) EQ on, 90 watts, normal
G 12:30
T 3:00
M 1:00
B 9:00
P 1:00
Vol 8:30

Sliders are
80 top line
240 middle line
750 between bottom and middle line
2200 middle line
6600 just above middle line

Monstercastle · Oct 4, 2016

Try pulling back the treble on channel 3. My understanding of the treble control is that the higher it's set, the less signal passed to the rest of the tone stack. In my experience that helps fatten up the channel. I like the treble up on channel 2 crunch though.

Chiliphil1 · Oct 4, 2016

Monstercastle said:
Try pulling back the treble on channel 3. My understanding of the treble control is that the higher it's set, the less signal passed to the rest of the tone stack. In my experience that helps fatten up the channel. I like the treble up on channel 2 crunch though.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but if I try to lower the treble the tone gets completely clubby and "wet blanket" like. My first instinct was to turn down the treble when it was bright but after reading the manual and just spending time with it I found that the best results for my taste came with high treble and low 6600 slider.

I'll give it a shot though, rolling it back.

SamuelJ86 · Oct 4, 2016

My combo is more sensitive to rooms and where they're placed in those rooms than my 2x12. For whatever reason, I'm no acoustic engineer, but I enjoy my combo best placed in a corner. You'll get more straight projection putting its back against a wall, maybe some more low end. And I always found it to be too bright when I put it in the middle of a medium sized room. It certainly makes a difference. It might help you and it might not, but it's worth experimenting.

Chiliphil1 · Oct 4, 2016

SamuelJ86 said:
My combo is more sensitive to rooms and where they're placed in those rooms than my 2x12. For whatever reason, I'm no acoustic engineer, but I enjoy my combo best placed in a corner. You'll get more straight projection putting its back against a wall, maybe some more low end. And I always found it to be too bright when I put it in the middle of a medium sized room. It certainly makes a difference. It might help you and it might not, but it's worth experimenting.

You're absolutely right. When we were messing with it last night I took it out to my storage building and it was just sitting out in the floor, painfully bright. In the house it's about 6" or so from a wall, so it definately did add a lot of bottom end to the tone. At this point my goal is one of two things, either a wide body 1x12 to stack it on or a 4x12 to run it through. I honestly don't think I'm going to be happy with it as is. I can get it where it's good but it isn't "there". I'll have to save my pennies but a cabinet should be doable within the not so distant future and that should cure my ills. Also looking into a head shell and maybe converting to a head once I've got the cabinet.

iceman · Oct 4, 2016

I honestly don't think I'm going to be happy with it as is.

I wasn't happy with my V until I ditched the combo and moved it to a head. Night and day difference especially on CH3. I use a PortCity 2x12 OS, can't recommend them enough.

Monstercastle · Oct 4, 2016

Yeah, I've never been able to bond with combos. I much prefer the sound of sealed cabs.

Chiliphil1 · Oct 5, 2016

I was able to get a cabinet today. It's not a Mesa but it's a Earcandy buzzbomb. According to the website http://earcandycabs.com/product/buzzbomb-2x12/ it's supposed to be all wood, hand made, hand wired, etc. It's loaded with Eminence Legend v12's. Sounds really good, have not been able to really open it up yet but at house levels it's nice. Also grabbed a Schecter C-1 with EMG's while I was there, it works very well with this set up.

Monstercastle · Oct 5, 2016

Nice!

Chiliphil1 · Oct 7, 2016

I got to open it up today :twisted: MAN, oh MAN! This amp is flat awesome. The crunch mode was so punchy and nasty, it reminded me very much of my old Marshall 2203 when it was full tilt, channel 3 was unreal, massive bottom end, cutting tone, rich dynamics. This thing is a beast, I am so glad that I got this amp and now the speaker cabinet.

Griddigger · Oct 8, 2016

I have a mark v 90 head, a 4x12 recto and a 2x12 recto cab. I still can not believe the huge difference between the two cabs. On the 2x12 I have the bottom end I missed with a 1x12. But the highs are piercing my ears so I have to dail down the presence to about nine o clock. And the trebble slider half way. Treble knob at one o clock. All at the channel 3 mark v/II+ modes. On the 4x12 however I can dail the presence and trebble way up and stil not sounding piercing/ice picky but fat and creamy. The petrucci tones in his video on the 4x12 are making sense to me. But it sounds really bad through my 2x12. I am dailing the highs down and at gigging volume it sounds just great. I really love the sound of the 4x12 at all volume levels though (it is night and day) but it is so heavy that I leave it at home standing in my living room and just lug the 2x12 to practice or gigs.

bandit2013 · Oct 8, 2016

edited:....I had to go back and edit this post and added this comment to the top, this is in response to the last post before this one as I did not see it when I was typing..... the 2x12 sounding harsh vs the 412.... this is making me think that some of the V30 speakers are not created equal. I could not stand the original V30 in my old Recto cab (bought in 2000) but my new one is amazing. Night and day difference. Tone balance of the new cab is perfect. Ok, 16yr old cab obviously the speakers are broken in right? no. I barely ever used it since I bought it... I did reuse the V30 in a traditional sized cab with a different amp. Even after returning them back to the OSR 412 they sound terrible. New OSR 412 is like I said, perfect. Now have a new Rect. Vertical 2x12 and that one sounds just as good as the new OSR 412 (OSR = Over Sized Rectifier). There may be something about the V30, when they were made, materials, or workmanship that may make a difference in their tone and character. Just a thought..... 8)

original post:
I am probably one of the few that started out with a head and converted to a combo. Unfortunately I was unable to compare the Mark V to my reliable Mark III combo. I had 12 years to compare it to the Mark IV combo. Also had bought a Mesa OS Recto 412 at the same time I bought the Mark IV combo. Long story short,,,, when I bought the Mark V head, I purposely bought the head to use with the 412 cab. If you thought your Mark V combo was bright, a 412 loaded with V30 speakers is not a solution. Since then I bought another 412 cab to use with my RA100 head, it is bright but not brittle like the Mark V. I removed the V30's and installed 4 EV. Sounded better but still bright. I bought a Roadster head and that solved my problems at least with the 412 cab.

When I got the combo shell, it came with the MC90, I could not bond with that speaker and did not care for it all that much in the Mark IV combo either. At low volumes and clean it sounds great. Push the envelope a bit and sounds more like a blown speaker. Since I had a few extra EV speakers, I put that in the Mark V combo, so far best for clean for dry type sound, but sterile on CH2 and more so on CH3. Sounds great in the 4 ohm output jack. Also have a 1x12 ext. cab with an EV in it. Running the pair was amazing. Decided to try something else as I was not ready to give up on the Mark V, Celestion Cream 90W Alnico. Yeah baby... it is a vintage voiced speaker that seems to combine the character of the EV and the V30 without being harsh. Speaker selection may make a difference. Good to hear your new cab is a solution.

Also preamp tube selection was a key in reducing harshness of the Mark V. With Mullard 12ax7 long plate in V1, I can actually use the treble and presence control on CH3. Normally had to set both low about 10oclock on the dials. Now I am actually setting them much higher.

I put the blame to my tone quest on the Mark V, if it was not for that amp, I would not have two RA100's, Roadster, and the JP-2C. I have no complaints on the latter. Tone quest is complete... You are not alone when it comes to brightness of the Mark V. There are ways it can be tamed. Speakers and tubes are one way.... there is always a compromise to go with it such as how the clean and crunch channel is effected for the sake of tuning the High gain channel. I will not be hard on the Mark V as it is a good amp, but for some it is not easy to bond with as it is quite different that its predecessors.... :roll:

APEMAN · Oct 8, 2016

Chiliphil1 · Oct 8, 2016

bandit2013 said:
edited:....I had to go back and edit this post and added this comment to the top, this is in response to the last post before this one as I did not see it when I was typing..... the 2x12 sounding harsh vs the 412.... this is making me think that some of the V30 speakers are not created equal. I could not stand the original V30 in my old Recto cab (bought in 2000) but my new one is amazing. Night and day difference. Tone balance of the new cab is perfect. Ok, 16yr old cab obviously the speakers are broken in right? no. I barely ever used it since I bought it... I did reuse the V30 in a traditional sized cab with a different amp. Even after returning them back to the OSR 412 they sound terrible. New OSR 412 is like I said, perfect. Now have a new Rect. Vertical 2x12 and that one sounds just as good as the new OSR 412 (OSR = Over Sized Rectifier). There may be something about the V30, when they were made, materials, or workmanship that may make a difference in their tone and character. Just a thought..... 8)

original post:
I am probably one of the few that started out with a head and converted to a combo. Unfortunately I was unable to compare the Mark V to my reliable Mark III combo. I had 12 years to compare it to the Mark IV combo. Also had bought a Mesa OS Recto 412 at the same time I bought the Mark IV combo. Long story short,,,, when I bought the Mark V head, I purposely bought the head to use with the 412 cab. If you thought your Mark V combo was bright, a 412 loaded with V30 speakers is not a solution. Since then I bought another 412 cab to use with my RA100 head, it is bright but not brittle like the Mark V. I removed the V30's and installed 4 EV. Sounded better but still bright. I bought a Roadster head and that solved my problems at least with the 412 cab.

When I got the combo shell, it came with the MC90, I could not bond with that speaker and did not care for it all that much in the Mark IV combo either. At low volumes and clean it sounds great. Push the envelope a bit and sounds more like a blown speaker. Since I had a few extra EV speakers, I put that in the Mark V combo, so far best for clean for dry type sound, but sterile on CH2 and more so on CH3. Sounds great in the 4 ohm output jack. Also have a 1x12 ext. cab with an EV in it. Running the pair was amazing. Decided to try something else as I was not ready to give up on the Mark V, Celestion Cream 90W Alnico. Yeah baby... it is a vintage voiced speaker that seems to combine the character of the EV and the V30 without being harsh. Speaker selection may make a difference. Good to hear your new cab is a solution.

Also preamp tube selection was a key in reducing harshness of the Mark V. With Mullard 12ax7 long plate in V1, I can actually use the treble and presence control on CH3. Normally had to set both low about 10oclock on the dials. Now I am actually setting them much higher.

I put the blame to my tone quest on the Mark V, if it was not for that amp, I would not have two RA100's, Roadster, and the JP-2C. I have no complaints on the latter. Tone quest is complete... You are not alone when it comes to brightness of the Mark V. There are ways it can be tamed. Speakers and tubes are one way.... there is always a compromise to go with it such as how the clean and crunch channel is effected for the sake of tuning the High gain channel. I will not be hard on the Mark V as it is a good amp, but for some it is not easy to bond with as it is quite different that its predecessors.... :roll:

Yeah, that brightness was definately an issue but I figured out how to get around it. Basically it's all in the 6600 slider. I boosted the treble on the knob to about 3:00 then bring the 6600 down until it flubs and the back off a little. With that you get a nice thick tone without the harshness. With the combo I can get closer to the "classic V" but I do still keep that 6600 a little lower than the top line.

A guy just offered me a Marshall JVM410H with 1960 cabinet in trade for it. I'm on the fence but I'm really liking what the mark is doing now. If I hadn't gotten that cabinet I probably would have been all over that JVM.

New Mesa owner Mark V

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