Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

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MatCarfi76
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Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by MatCarfi76 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:15 pm

OK - with my triple rec, I decided I was gonna get a few pedals - and actually have amassed a few MXR pedals... lol - anyway - here is what I got - just would like a few opinions here - help me get started... I know trying out different things is best, just like a few suggestions....

I have a BOSS TU-3 Tuner, then an MXR Noise Clamp - out of it I have a SLash Wah, MXR EVH Phase, an MXR Wylde OD (think I ever will use this?), an MXR Black Label Chorus, an MXR EVH Flanger, and a Ross modded MXR Dyna Comp... on the way, a 5 channel true Bypass box, with a tuner mute..... I will be getting, when funds permit, an MXR Carbon Copy...

With the bypass box, and 5 seperate loops, I can use the Amps effects loop, put it all out front, etc..

Thanks in advance....

MrMarkIII
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Re: Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by MrMarkIII » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:08 pm

One way to go:
Guitar
TU-3 Tuner
Dyna Comp
Slash Wah
Wylde OD
(All Into The Bypass Box)
Amp Input

In The Loop:
EVH Flanger
Black Label Chorus
Carbon Copy
Noise Clamp

To me, the wild cards are the Dyna Comp and Noise Clamp.
Any noise before a Compressor (Wah, O/D, also amp gain) will be amplified by the compressor as it tries to make the noise as loud as the guitar signal. Most folks would not put the comp in the loop. The Noise Clamp at the beginning won't help with any noise generated after it. So, the most noise is going to be created by the Wah, OD, and high gain amp channel. You just have to figure out where in the chain the Comp and Clamp help the most without adding to the noise or gating off the sound too early.
It might help to start with one or two pedals at a time to get a feel for the interactions.

cheameup
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Re: Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by cheameup » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:20 pm

me personally I like all effects except delay if front of the amp . even my reverb I have in front but I only use it on clean channel . I like flanger in front for dirt sounds as well . its a bit less swooshing jet sound in front but I like that

wah postition is pretty subjective but like mr mark I'd put it after the compressor


If your getting a delay I cant recommend enough getting one that you can kill the dry signal on. it makes it all so much better. for 18 months I messed with my loop and delay sound. I use a fair of delay in our songs and I always had issues getting to sound like i wanted . I had a volume boost with the loop . It wasnt till I took everything else out of the effects loop and ran my dd20 in wet only that it clicked and sounded 100% right .

but to use kill dry the delay needs to be the only thing in the loop

MatCarfi76
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Re: Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by MatCarfi76 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:01 pm

I kinda get the idea.. The noise clamp actually has it's own loop - so even with would you run it in the loop? Just curious... I think I can run it straight, without the loop, and use it as a smart gate would run.. But it is designed to run a loop for the pedals...

plapnab
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Re: Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by plapnab » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:32 pm

You might have problems running the Phaser and Flanger in the loop if your loop is parallel. Might have to put those in front...somewhere behind the Wah, Compressor , OD and tuner.
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MatCarfi76
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Re: Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by MatCarfi76 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:44 pm

SO if my loop is parallel, its a 3 channel Mesa Triple Rec, probably from late 2000's, so I think it is... those effects theoretically, if are on, will always bleed through? But don't forget, I will have a 5 channel bypass thing working, so will it still not work in the loop? I am seriously a novice with this sort of thing - past 25 years has been spent playing either with a way in front, or direct into the amp....

plapnab
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Re: Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by plapnab » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:19 pm

MatCarfi76 wrote:SO if my loop is parallel, its a 3 channel Mesa Triple Rec, probably from late 2000's, so I think it is... those effects theoretically, if are on, will always bleed through? But don't forget, I will have a 5 channel bypass thing working, so will it still not work in the loop? I am seriously a novice with this sort of thing - past 25 years has been spent playing either with a way in front, or direct into the amp....
Off the top of my head I cannot imagine any scenario where those two effects will work through a parallel loop. I'm not sure what you mean by "bleeding through"...I'm guessing maybe your saying that if they are bypassed or not turned on they will not effect your sound. Which of course is true. However when running, in my experience reverb, delay and maybe chorus work fine in parallel. But, distortions, overdrives, phases, flangers, wahs etc... don't. Something about how the parallel loop splits the singal gives them this weird hollow phasing effect. Only one way to find out is to experiment.
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94Tremoverb
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Re: Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by 94Tremoverb » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:58 pm

Analog phasers and flangers work fine in a parallel loop - that's where I run mine usually. Digital ones, or any other digital effect including delay that digitises the dry part of the signal (this includes Line 6 delays for example), don't. Digital delays that only digitise the delay repeats (e.g. Boss) work fine. The problem is caused by the digital latency between the dry signal in the effect and the dry path through the amp's mix control. You get a nasty comb-filter effect like a stuck flanger that sucks tone and (if it's bad enough) volume.

Don't ever put a distortion, fuzz or even overdrive in the amp's loop, whether parallel or series. It will most likely sound bad, probably kill the signal level and in some cases can make the amp unstable and self-oscillate. In very rare cases it can even damage the amp if the oscillation fries something (it can be outside the range of hearing so you might not notice immediately).

Compressors aren't generally a good idea in the loop either unless they're studio-quality, line-level types that can handle the much higher level in the loop and have a decent signal-to-noise ratio. Which the Dyna Comp definitely doesn't...

plapnab
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Re: Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by plapnab » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:04 pm

94Tremoverb wrote:Analog phasers and flangers work fine in a parallel loop - that's where I run mine usually. Digital ones, or any other digital effect including delay that digitises the dry part of the signal (this includes Line 6 delays for example), don't. Digital delays that only digitise the delay repeats (e.g. Boss) work fine. The problem is caused by the digital latency between the dry signal in the effect and the dry path through the amp's mix control. You get a nasty comb-filter effect like a stuck flanger that sucks tone and (if it's bad enough) volume.

Don't ever put a distortion, fuzz or even overdrive in the amp's loop, whether parallel or series. It will most likely sound bad, probably kill the signal level and in some cases can make the amp unstable and self-oscillate. In very rare cases it can even damage the amp if the oscillation fries something (it can be outside the range of hearing so you might not notice immediately).

Compressors aren't generally a good idea in the loop either unless they're studio-quality, line-level types that can handle the much higher level in the loop and have a decent signal-to-noise ratio. Which the Dyna Comp definitely doesn't...
So, specifically will his MXR phaser and flanger work in the loop? I have an MXR Phase 90 and it sounds terrible to the point about unuseable in the loop but sounds fine out front. Don't know about an EVH phaser but I have to imagine its pretty much the same. Don't know anything about the MXR flanger...never used one.
Dual Rectifier 4X12 Slant Mesa Cabinet
PRS Standard 24 20th anniversary
Fender Stratocaster USA Gilmore EMG setup
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mastora
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Re: Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by mastora » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:31 am

The phazer will probably sound better in front of the amp instead of in the loop, because the phazer is not realy a timed effect (as I found out myself not too long ago). Try it out front and see what happens.

94Tremoverb
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Re: Effects Chain... PEDAL ORDER.

Post by 94Tremoverb » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:12 pm

plapnab wrote:So, specifically will his MXR phaser and flanger work in the loop? I have an MXR Phase 90 and it sounds terrible to the point about unuseable in the loop but sounds fine out front. Don't know about an EVH phaser but I have to imagine its pretty much the same. Don't know anything about the MXR flanger...never used one.
Depends how you set the Send level. The MXRs have low headroom and can easily distort in the loop if you set it high. It's a headroom issue not because it's a phaser or flanger though - my Boss phasers and flangers work perfectly in the loop, and my (original) MXR Micro-Choruses do too, if you keep the level very low.

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