Need HELP w/ metal tone!! getting crazy with Dual Rectifier!

HI. again sorry for posting the same issues again ...

its about 2nd week that I got the Mesa Dual Rectifier... but still couldn't get the tone that I wanted...

I have got some suggested preset but they didn't work fine...

All that want to get Emppu Vuorinens lead and Rythm tone which are already too rectoish!
you can listen this guy easily by searching the Band "Nightwish".. obviously try to listen soundcheck or live non mixed vids please...

GEAR:
ESP HORIZON II
3CH Dual Rectifier
1960B 4 x G12T-75 (dont have enough bugget left to replace it with mesa cab atm!)
G-sharp Tc electronics
sonic maximizer 822i rack mount(not using)
MXR Dyno comp
shure sm57

... no hot plate or eutenuetor in use!

please let me know for settings! any advise will be appreciated!

Channel: 2 lead or 3 rhythm? modern? vintage? - rear: spongy or bold? tube or diode?
master? output? and other EQ stuff?

my bugget can handle boost/OD pedal if any of you advise any of them? - OD808 preferred by others much and keeley MT-2 in my thoughts..

The dude has kind of a generic Recto tone, which shouldn't be too hard to dial in. It's a little more scooped than normal, but that's due in part to the G12T-75s in his Marshall cab.

The lead tone has a lot of sustain without the typical Tubescreamer sound, so my guess is that he's using the DynaComp to compress his leads.

The top end sounds rolled off on his live rhythm and lead tones, but that could be the sound engineer EQing the guitar out so that the keys and vocals to cut through clearly.

Beyond that, keep in mind that half of what people call the "Recto" tone comes from the bassist, which is something I hear a lot of in Nightwish.

I always ask this before asking for tone knobs.
What's your guitar??

gain 1 o oclock, mid 11-12 oclock, treble 12-1 o oclock. bass 11 o oclock. prescence 9-10 o clock
+maxon od808(gain o, tone 12 o clock. level maxed)
modern bold diode .......................metal!

wildrat666 said:

gain 1 o oclock, mid 11-12 oclock, treble 12-1 o oclock. bass 11 o oclock. prescence 9-10 o clock
+maxon od808(gain o, tone 12 o clock. level maxed)
modern bold diode .......................metal!

Click to expand...

thanks for the preset! I will try them tomorrow morning and reply back the post... I am using 50w setting.. and playing @ output 12oclock - master level 9 or 10 oclock..

by the way.. dont have 808 yet... as I looking to it or a keeley modded MT-2 or OD9...?.. dont know if they needed..
so your suggested preset still smillar to emmpu without boost as well?

to screamingdaisy and Rkorn

sorry for misunderstanding.. the gear list that I mentioned is belonging to me.. not to the guy..
that guy has custom ESP horizon and Dual recto with 1960cabs (not sure if its vintage series).. that the only gear seen on his rig atm..

he is easy link to his gear list :http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-plays-what/367-nightwish-emppu-vuorinen-guitar-gear-rig-and-equipment
... many gear listed, but most of them is not used such as psa1.1 and mesa power amp at the moment.. or MT-2(not sure for this one) ..

wildrat666 said:

gain 1 o oclock, mid 11-12 oclock, treble 12-1 o oclock. bass 11 o oclock. prescence 9-10 o clock

Click to expand...

Those are almost identical to the settings I told him. On his first thread about this same issue. :roll:

just remember a tone in a mix is completely different to when your playing alone .not sure if your going for this tone in a band setting or not At home messing around I turn my bass up to 12.30 and presence right down and it sounds great but with the band those settings dont work . the bass comes down to 11 oclock and the precense gets dialed up a bit as there's too much low end messing with the bass .

If you heard this guys tone by itself it would proabably sound completley different . Also sound guys always shape the tone in the mix. sometimes for the better :evil:

wildratt666's setting on modern is a good one. real close to mine but I use tube rectifers cause I like the sag feel .but I checked a couple of nightwish clips and it should get you in the ballpark .

Also dont forget tone is also in your hands . the way you fret and pick . If your style is different to his then you'll never sound the same

I checked the tone setting that you guys send me.. Its OK for now.. but I think it can be better thou.. I went in to the PA system(EQ balanced) with sm57, the sound get more tight and aggressive through the PA cabs. may be thats the only solutions.. I couldn't get the exact sound just from the AMP AND CAB...

and for the lead solo tone: I have tried: channel 2 - vintage - bold & tube ... bass 11- 12, gain 1-2 oclock, mid 5 oclock! treble nearly off, presence off! ... still I sound so treble!!!

by the way could like to know from your experience..? should use output level? or master volume? because tone shapes with them.... should I use Output high? or master high? or balanced? ... remember I am not using Hot plate.

Shoragoth said:

and for the lead solo tone: I have tried: channel 2 - vintage - bold & tube ... bass 11- 12, gain 1-2 oclock, mid 5 oclock! treble nearly off, presence off! ... still I sound so treble!!!

Click to expand...

That's the G12T-75s. When I had them I ran my EQ nearly the same way.

by the way could like to know from your experience..? should use output level? or master volume? because tone shapes with them.... should I use Output high? or master high? or balanced? ... remember I am not using Hot plate.

Click to expand...

Put the channel master of your loudest channel (probably channel 3) around 10:00, then turn the master output up... preferably somewhere between 11:00 and 1:00.

Adjust your other channel masters to balance the loudest one, but leave your loudest channel around 10:00. Doing this reduces the likelihood of overdriving the effects loop, which in turn keeps your amp sounding clearer.

screamingdaisy said:

Shoragoth said:

and for the lead solo tone: I have tried: channel 2 - vintage - bold & tube ... bass 11- 12, gain 1-2 oclock, mid 5 oclock! treble nearly off, presence off! ... still I sound so treble!!!

Click to expand...

That's the G12T-75s. When I had them I ran my EQ nearly the same way.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Mix two v30s with two c90s if you want to smooth out the highs and get a better lead tone!

Shoragoth said:

I checked the tone setting that you guys send me.. Its OK for now.. but I think it can be better thou.. I went in to the PA system(EQ balanced) with sm57, the sound get more tight and aggressive through the PA cabs. may be thats the only solutions.. I couldn't get the exact sound just from the AMP AND CAB...

and for the lead solo tone: I have tried: channel 2 - vintage - bold & tube ... bass 11- 12, gain 1-2 oclock, mid 5 oclock! treble nearly off, presence off! ... still I sound so treble!!!

by the way could like to know from your experience..? should use output level? or master volume? because tone shapes with them.... should I use Output high? or master high? or balanced? ... remember I am not using Hot plate.

Click to expand...

Mid 5 oclock??? treble off??? hmmmm should sound like **** and boomy
the channel 2 vintage has a very mid tone compared with channel 3 modern. very good for lead actually
try to bypass the loop then......
Ive used my settings for a long time with different mesas....works for me but that´s a personal preference
a mesa cab with v30´s is a different thing too
keep the settings experiment going...you lll find your own settings and tone I hope

wildrat666 said:

Mid 5 oclock??? treble off??? hmmmm should sound like sh!t and boomy

Click to expand...

It's actually kind of cool. Mids dimed, treble off and presence to taste used to be a common trick for scooping a Recto without scooping the mids.

I must try this settings next time.......fun with new inputs.
for me that sounds like really crazy settings....cool

That's the G12T-75s. When I had them I ran my EQ nearly the same way. [/quote]

Exactly. Mix two v30s with two c90s if you want to smooth out the highs and get a better lead tone![/quote]


its hard for me to replace speaker at the moment.. 1960cab is brand new and dont want to spend any more for a few month ..
by the way was it still treble with the G12T-75`s?

I use to go back and forth playing my Rec with G12T-75's ( nice broken in old JCM800 cab) many times and always found it to be too harsh. Way too much highs going on that I could never dial out. The best I've heard with the Recs is mixing some greenbacks with V30s.

right now I put the sonic maximizer in use trou the loop..

more tight ends! much more clear sound but sounds more digital

another issue.. my recto`s master per channel is @9- 10 and main output @12 ... and it almost impossible to go in front of the amp as facing to it... sounds very dirty!! distorted and not clear sound... behind the amp! sounds great! any advise??

shall I look for a boost/pedal ? OD808- OD9 - keeley MT-2

and any more idea about the gear that I use?.. and the tone that I want to have??

Shoragoth said:

and any more idea about the gear that I use?.. and the tone that I want to have??

Click to expand...

NO !

BENNY said:

Shoragoth said:

and any more idea about the gear that I use?.. and the tone that I want to have??

Click to expand...

NO !

Click to expand...

thanks for help then.. no need to be rude.

Shoragoth said:

right now I put the sonic maximizer in use trou the loop..

more tight ends! much more clear sound but sounds more digital

Click to expand...

Sonic Maximizers tend to do that. It's like an EQ that's a little too scooped... at first it sounds good, but over time you start to realize that something is missing.

another issue.. my recto`s master per channel is @9- 10 and main output @12 ... and it almost impossible to go in front of the amp as facing to it... sounds very dirty!! distorted and not clear sound... behind the amp! sounds great! any advise??

Click to expand...

Turn down the volume to a level that sounds good to you.