What Would You Do?

[pjrake]

i'm curious as to how you guys would handle if faced with my situation.

my current setup is a dual rectifier head and marshall cab (4x12). my board consists of a TU2 tuner, TS9 tubescreamer, BOSS NS2 noise gate in front of the amp. through the FX loop i have a rocktron xpression.

since i have always been someone that just wants a great dirty sound and great clean sound i really don't need alot of pedals to change tones throughout a song (which sometimes i question why i got an xpression in the first place!) and what i'm looking for is to switch with just one switch of a button dirty to clean. i'm currently using the MESA foot controller for the amp switching and Midimate for the effects.

now for the problem: i have to mod the FX loops (around $75) to get the xpression to sound great, which at this moment does not. also, the tubescreamer is a dream come true when it comes to a killer distorted sound but must turn that pedal off when playing clean (thus creating an extra foot stomp).

since money is somewhat of an issue, this is my dilemma before my band starts to do gigs (in about four weeks). after weeks (and months) of planning my "gig rig" and what i need, this is what i came with:

running MIDI housing pedals on pedalboard (to eliminate "tap dancing"):
* axess electronics CFX4 9 (to switch amps $165 + $50 for the dual rectifier custom cable total $215)
* axess electronics GRX4 (for the TS9 to turn on and off when going from clean to distortion. i can also have the noise gate here for true bypass since i don't need it on in my clean channel $250)
* 2 space rack (for my xpression and furman power conditioner $100)
* patch cables (i'm estimating here but around $60 for the george l's)
* mod FX loop for xpression ($75, you'll see later why i put this here)

total: $695

or i can go more of a rack unit route:
* GCX audio switcher (to switch amp and pedals $399)
* rack drawer (can't keep my pedals too far away from the CGX so need to take them from my pedalboard and place them in some rack drawer $100)
* rack space (probably 6 space to make room for the drawer and CGX in addition to the xpression and furman $150)
* patch cables ($60)
* mod FX loop ($75)

total: $785

going MIDI will eliminate the tap dancing, but it's more gear to carry for a show, which is okay, but something to consider.

my drummer suggested something the other night which got me thinking and here is where i ask what would you do in my situation. instead of going MIDI and "rack unit" to elimiate the tap dancing fiasco, he suggested i get a combo amp for my clean sound. so all i would need is a good AB switch ($100). i can route the TS9 and noise gate one way to the MESA and have the xpression running in the FX loop of a combo amp. i can hard bypass the FX loop on the dual rectifier thus no need for a mod. as a matter of fact, i can get rid of the xpression and just run a nice delay and chorus pedal, which is what i really use the xpression in the first place, just for delay and chorusing, so that eliminates a rack space as well (yay!!). however, it would mean carrying an extra amp on stage(boo!), even though it's a combo amp.

so, to finally end my dilemma i ask you what would you do. my drummer already has a fender combo amp (50watts) in the studio (i forget which one actually) but i can probably even get maybe like a line6 flextone III (my old teacher had one and that's all he used on stage, but he plays jazz; i play modern rock ala godsmack). the flextone already has built in effects so i won't need a delay and chorus pedal. instead of spending all that money on MIDI equipment and rack units i can get a nice amp (the flextone is $600), an AB switch and call it a day!

some would say why have an amp like a dual rectifier if you're just using one channel. it's true, hence my dilemma. i'm a tube guy so my distortion has to be pure and would never get a different amp. i've searched long and hard for my distorted tone and found it in the dual rectifier. when it comes to clean i don't mind solid-state or modelling amps but not when it comes to bone-crushing distortion it's tubes all the way.

what would you guys do? i have four weeks before my show. thank you for reading my post.

 

[jbird]

Someone else please help this guy because I have bad advise! Simplify! Don't know why you need the tubescreamer for a killer distorted sound? Dump the noise supressor (it's not a noise gate, per se). Now, assign your loop with the chorus/delay (whether it be Intelliflex/Pedals) to only the channel you desire it on (clean- 1)! So, in this manner you can leave the clean channel effects always on, and tap once on the Mesa footswitch to access your chorused/delayed clean channel! For your dirty channel, tap once, and walla! :idea:

Like I said, bad advise huh? Coming from a Single channel amp kind a guy! 8) But that's what I'd do, if I had to! :wink:

 

[stash49]

The best thing to do is get two heads-a lonestar for example, for cleans and whatever for dirty (I prefer stilletos. Get two 2x12s or run your cab stereo. Get rid of as many effect in your signal chain as you can, and keep only what is absolutley essential.

 

[pjrake]

Someone else please help this guy because I have bad advise! Simplify! Don't know why you need the tubescreamer for a killer distorted sound? Dump the noise supressor (it's not a noise gate, per se). Now, assign your loop with the chorus/delay (whether it be Intelliflex/Pedals) to only the channel you desire it on (clean- 1)! So, in this manner you can leave the clean channel effects always on, and tap once on the Mesa footswitch to access your chorused/delayed clean channel! For your dirty channel, tap once, and walla! :idea:

Like I said, bad advise huh? Coming from a Single channel amp kind a guy! 8) But that's what I'd do, if I had to! :wink:

thanks for the bad advice. lol

TS9 cuts through the mix much better than without it. more and more bands (killswitch engage, unearth, bullet for my valentine, paul gilbert, etc) are using em. after trying it out, i wouldn't play without one.

the BOSS noise gate is probably the best pedal i have ever owned, dating back in my days with my peavy 5150! i've heard others on this board say they do not use a noise gate; i just cannot fathom how in this style of metal you can play the stop and go type rhythms without one, the dual rectifier will just feedback too much (or any high gain amp for that matter).

i've tried assigning the loop to channel 1 only; the problem is the DR's parallel loop, it's not very good and it hates pedals! my small clone can hardly be heard through the FX loop, but sitting in front of the amp sounds good.

i've been tap dancing with my previous band for over six years onstage and finally decided to do something about. just trying to find the best way to go about it. the more i think about it the more it's becoming evident i'll need the axess devices.

 

[pjrake]

The best thing to do is get two heads-a lonestar for example, for cleans and whatever for dirty (I prefer stilletos. Get two 2x12s or run your cab stereo. Get rid of as many effect in your signal chain as you can, and keep only what is absolutley essential.

i've been looking at the lonestar today actually. i would like to keep all the amps "in the mesa family" and it'll look cool onstage too!

haven't priced them yet. how much do they go for? i would get the combo and run maybe a chorus and stick with the amp's reverb.

thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Elpelotero]

here's a curveball...



get a POD Live XT and mod your amp to do Serial Loop. POD is about 300-400 and the mod is 75. THen all that's left is the CFX4. POD's and parallel loops don't mix at all.

This is what my singer does in my band. He clicks one button on the POD and it switches everything on the recto head. You can stay with one amp and just carry around a little floor efx unit. The Line6 efx are great and very versatile. Plus, you get to use it for silent playing at home. THe Pod also has a TS9 patch, but I doubt it compares to the real thing.

**whichever option you choose, order the CFX4 now. It takes 3-4 weeks to ship, unless you find it on ebay or something.

 

[Boogie4Life]

Something to think about... You might run into serious ground loop issues with two amps and wind up spending some serious $$$ trying to get rid of it. You already have more than one channel on the amp now so why not utilize it. I am partial to midi to switch everything and just got rid of my GCX for a Switchblade. Sure it would be more gear but wouldnt another amp be more gear to ? :wink: Food for thought.

 

[pjrake]

Something to think about... You might run into serious ground loop issues with two amps and wind up spending some serious $$$ trying to get rid of it. You already have more than one channel on the amp now so why not utilize it. I am partial to midi to switch everything and just got rid of my GCX for a Switchblade. Sure it would be more gear but wouldnt another amp be more gear to ? :wink: Food for thought.

you are right: either way i'm still carrying extra gear, an extra amp or rack units... unless i get the axess MIDI devices.

the switchblade is too expensive fore me, unfortunately. if money was not an issue, i would get the switchblade; it looks like the best MIDI switching unit out there (better than the GCX).

 

[pjrake]

get a POD Live XT and mod your amp to do Serial Loop. POD is about 300-400 and the mod is 75. THen all that's left is the CFX4. POD's and parallel loops don't mix at all.

This is what my singer does in my band. He clicks one button on the POD and it switches everything on the recto head. You can stay with one amp and just carry around a little floor efx unit. The Line6 efx are great and very versatile. Plus, you get to use it for silent playing at home. THe Pod also has a TS9 patch, but I doubt it compares to the real thing.

**whichever option you choose, order the CFX4 now. It takes 3-4 weeks to ship, unless you find it on ebay or something.

that's interesting. something i did not think about. thanks.

from the looks of it, it looks like getting a mod is inevitable. unless, i run all my pedals in front of the amp (inlcuding chorus and delay) and switch them with the CFX4 and GRX4.

 

[eaeolian]

I'd go with the MIDI rig and FX you like, personally. I have a similar situation, and I use a Nobels Alex-1 to switch my TS in and out, and a CFX4 to switch the amp. All of my delays/mod/gate are from a G-Major, but if I preferred something else I'd have used the GRX4. I was very underwhelmed by the DMC GCX - I use an original Ground Control as my MIDI switch, but the GCX seemed overly expensive for the features.

If you could find a Nobels Alex-2, you *could* do the TS and noise gate with it, and it's less than a GRX4, but they're not so easy to find in North America.

 

[Boogie4Life]

Something to think about... You might run into serious ground loop issues with two amps and wind up spending some serious $$$ trying to get rid of it. You already have more than one channel on the amp now so why not utilize it. I am partial to midi to switch everything and just got rid of my GCX for a Switchblade. Sure it would be more gear but wouldnt another amp be more gear to ? :wink: Food for thought.

you are right: either way i'm still carrying extra gear, an extra amp or rack units... unless i get the axess MIDI devices.

the switchblade is too expensive fore me, unfortunately. if money was not an issue, i would get the switchblade; it looks like the best MIDI switching unit out there (better than the GCX).

Well I wasnt trying to to talk you into the Switchblade cause for some ppl it might be overkill. :lol: I just think your much better off with one amp and then going for the midi switching option. Far less headaches in the long run. :wink:

 

[pjrake]

Well I wasnt trying to to talk you into the Switchblade cause for some ppl it might be overkill. :lol: I just think your much better off with one amp and then going for the midi switching option. Far less headaches in the long run. :wink:

dude, you are right. midi is the way to go. i really don't want to lug another amp.

i looked more into the GCX and found out that it's a pain to use unless you use their midi pedalboard (the ground control) and i already have the midimate.

i guess it'll be the axess units then. after i fix the FX loop on my dual.

thanks again for the input!

 

[Elpelotero]

talk to hal9000 about his setup. he uses a gmajor and a fcb1010 floorboard. the floorboard has all the buttons to press and it controls the gmajor via midi. the gmajor has channel switching options as well. or you can get a cfx4. this will be a very inexpensive but quality setup.

 

[strumminsix]

IMO, stay away from any multi-fx unless you are comfortable with the limitations. I own 2 PODs and love the simplicity which overcomes the sound being less than ideal in certain situations.

That said, I'd go for a GCX and switcher and keep it all in a rack behind you.

 

[kingster911]

I myself am a big pedal user and although I don't own one, I am intrigued by the Bradshaw custom switching units. Custom pedalboards that give you what looks like the mesa footswitches but to control your board like an external trigger for every one. just my 2 cents

 

[oneamongthefence]

In my opinion, get the gcx. That way you can run your pedals in it's loops. I have the gmajor and the dmc ground control pro and everything i do is a matter of one button. I have a row of presets for each song that turn my amp channel to what i need and whatever fx's i need. It's simple and sounds great. I can understand wanting to use actual stompbox pedals for certain reasons, so here in comes the gcx. I plan on getting one and programming one of my "instant access" buttons on my gcp to flip on or off a stompbox and therefore i can program a preset to automatically bring it up or off.
so..trade in your xpression, get a g major(come out about even) sell your midimate and get a dmc gcp(might cost you $300 for used gcp and you'll get around $100 for your midi mate) and then buy a gcx($400). $600 and you're controlling everything with one button and still have many options open to you on the fly for those spontaneous live show moments. But i have a biased opinion cause that's my setup

 

[stash49]

If you really really care about your cleans, nothing compares to an LSC, and it's well worth the extra trip out to the car. They go for about a grand, used. Once you start doing your clean sounds on the loanstar, you'll be addicted. Have you ever heard of ANYONE who did not love the LSC and got rid of it? Nope. To own it is to love it. It will never take the place of the high gain montsers, but you'll be lying to yourself about "how acceptable" recto, or even roadster/rkII cleans are compared to it.