volume drop/cut out and static again and now NO SOUND!

[Rockin_Ron]

Had this problem once before only when in the loop in mode. Replaced V3 with a new JJ and it went away. Or I thought it did. Don't use loop in much, but yesterday while playing it started again. Volume would cut out and then come back and play perfectly normal. Are there any other tubes involved with this problem? I bought the amp used but from its looks it doesn't appear that it was played much so I wouldn't expect the tubes to be worn. Any suggestions other than replace all the tubes?

 

[hector]

I had the same problem with my LSC head, which I recently bought used. The issue has to do with corrosion or the contacts of the effects loop jacks (according to Mesa support). It's not a tube thing at all. I was told by Mesa support to spray contact cleaner on a 1/4" cable plug and insert it into the effects loop jacks of few times (rather than spray directly into the jacks). This took care of the issue for me. I'd be interested in knowing if that works for you too.

 

[Rockin_Ron]

I had the same problem with my LSC head, which I recently bought used. The issue has to do with corrosion or the contacts of the effects loop jacks (according to Mesa support). It's not a tube thing at all. I was told by Mesa support to spray contact cleaner on a 1/4" cable plug and insert it into the effects loop jacks of few times (rather than spray directly into the jacks). This took care of the issue for me. I'd be interested in knowing if that works for you too.

Hey ... thanks for your reply. Interesting, but I don't have anything plugged into the loop. I was just using it for the solo function.

 

[hector]

Same here. I wasn't using the effects loop either, but had it on for the solo control. Now, I mostly just bypass it completely. I believe Mesa also suggested just leaving a short cable plugged in the loop, if you want to use the solo control and not bypass the loop completely.

 

[Charles Reeder]

Hey:

All of the info you have thus far received is relevant to your problem...but the following IS A MUST!

This should probably receive 'sticky status' as it has been discussed before.
Mesa has even sent out a memo about this particular problem...I've seen it on this site but don't have the time to look for it...but the gist of it is:

You MUST a Chinese 12AX7 in the V3 socket in the Lonestar!

I don't remember the reason why exactly...something about all other 12AX7 tubes not being able to handle the voltage over the long haul. You CAN use other brand tubes (for a while) but they will all 'bite the dust' eventually. Some will last mere minutes...while some others will last until you are on stage in the middle of a solo and then decide to quit on you! Do yourself a favor and pick up a couple of the Chinese 12AX7s and don't get let down in a crunch.

Since installing Chinese 12AX7s in both of my Lonestar amps;I have not had another incident of crackling or volume dropout.

Charles

 

[Rockin_Ron]

Thanks for the reply! I do remember reading that on one of the posts on this forum. But if my memory serves me correct it specified against using the MESA Russian vs. the MESA Chinese. Something to the effect that the Russian tube couldn't handle the plate voltages or something like the Chinese one. But the funny thing is when I pulled V3 the first time it was a MESA Chinese. Played last night for a while and it was fine. Go figure!

I was about to order that gold series JJ set from the tube guy that get mentioned a bunch on here. Are you saying that's going to have problems?

 

[plan-x]

That chinese tube thing has cured many of problems, but here's the strange thing about it, I have been running JJ's for the last couple of years on my 04' with no problems. Apparently some of the pigs aren't as picky. :?

 

[loudguitars]

I don't have anything chinese in my lonestar. I play 3 nights a week, 4 hours a night, 140+ days a year. I have had my LSC for two years, the first thing I did was put all NOS tubes in V1,2,3,4. I leave V5 a JJ gold pin balanced for a phase inverter. I do "clean the contacts" in my loop and input side once in a while. I have NEVER had a problem. In my experience, I have had too many problems over the years with crappy chinese tubes, plus, in my opinion they sound shrill and raspy. Just my experience. A lonestar sounds great with anything under the hood, just better to me with a nice RCA, GE, or Sylvania short plate in V1 and V2. 8)

 

[ja22y]

Just get the spec sheet and look at the plate voltage rating, or ask Bob at EuT about the JJ. I'd be very surprise if the JJs can't handle the voltage.
I remember that Mesa statement too but I've always thought that it was due to bad batch of Mesa Russian tubes so they told everyone to use Mesa Chinese. And of course they won't tell you officially to use anything else but Mesa tubes

 

[Sebber]

I had a similar problem with my Lonestar Special and it (apparently) turned out to be a dry joint in the FX loop.

 

[Rockin_Ron]

I had a similar problem with my Lonestar Special and it (apparently) turned out to be a dry joint in the FX loop.

Do you mean cold solder joint? Was it pretty repeatable/predictable? Mine seems to show up on a random basis.

 

[Rockin_Ron]

Amp was working fine last night. Turn it on tonight and very little to no sound coming from the amp. Pulled all the covers from the preamp tubes and they glowed slightly orange. EL84s looked as they always have glow orange at the bottom and a slight blue glow on the plates. Rectifier glowed orange also. Tried swapping preamp tubes but that did nothing. Then all of a sudden while a was just happening to be looking at the back of the amp, the rectumfryer tube threw a blue arc. I quickly toggled the amp off. Turned it on again briefly and nothing. Do these tubes just up and die without any warning like that? I assume I need a new 5Y3 ... correct? If there is no glow from it and I'm now not getting any sound out of the amp?

 

[Sebber]

I had a similar problem with my Lonestar Special and it (apparently) turned out to be a dry joint in the FX loop.

Do you mean cold solder joint? Was it pretty repeatable/predictable? Mine seems to show up on a random basis.

I think they're the same thing, I'm not really all that hot with electronics and soldering stuff.

 

[Charles Reeder]

Hey:

Going back to the V3 tube question.

I really do believe you CAN get tubes other than the Chinese 12AX7s that will hold up in the V3 socket...it's just that if you're going to 'play-it-safe' than I would still recommend the Chinese 12AX7s.

I had some JJ 12AX7s that lasted for quite a long time in the V3 spot. The problem was that when one went it always seemed to be at the moment that would offer the most embarassing results. I have NEVER had a Chinese 12AX7 go out on me yet. Surely one will eventually...but it would seem that witihin the design paramaters of the Chinese 12AX7s...ALL OF THEM will work for a long time. Whereas with the JJ (Tesla) 12AX7s (and other brands) some will exceed their original specs and give you lots of use in that socket...and others won't. If Bob at Eurotubes can give you some guarantees on the JJ 12AX7s in V3...then by all means 'GO FOR IT'.

If not; then use a Chinese 12AX7 in V3...after all...almost all of your particular pre-amp 'tone' is established by V1 and V2. In V3; reliability is the most important factor for consideration.
BTW: You don't have to buy only Mesa tubes to get a Chinese 12AX7. They are very easily identifiable buy sight. I have seen 'Groove-Tubes', Soldano, and Rivera branded Chinese 12AX7s. Find and take a look at just one and you'll always be able to identitfy them from ANY OTHER Make irregardless of how they are 'branded'.

As to the last posting on the Lonestar SPECIAL. It's the rectifier tube...and yes...sadly...they do go out like that.That's another Lonestar Special 'Quirk' that needs it's own 'Sticky' posting as well.

Cheers, Charles

 

[Octavarius]

Hey:

Going back to the V3 tube question.

I really do believe you CAN get tubes other than the Chinese 12AX7s that will hold up in the V3 socket...it's just that if you're going to 'play-it-safe' than I would still recommend the Chinese 12AX7s.

I had some JJ 12AX7s that lasted for quite a long time in the V3 spot. The problem was that when one went it always seemed to be at the moment that would offer the most embarassing results. I have NEVER had a Chinese 12AX7 go out on me yet. Surely one will eventually...but it would seem that witihin the design paramaters of the Chinese 12AX7s...ALL OF THEM will work for a long time. Whereas with the JJ (Tesla) 12AX7s (and other brands) some will exceed their original specs and give you lots of use in that socket...and others won't. If Bob at Eurotubes can give you some guarantees on the JJ 12AX7s in V3...then by all means 'GO FOR IT'.

If not; then use a Chinese 12AX7 in V3...after all...almost all of your particular pre-amp 'tone' is established by V1 and V2. In V3; reliability is the most important factor for consideration.
BTW: You don't have to buy only Mesa tubes to get a Chinese 12AX7. They are very easily identifiable buy sight. I have seen 'Groove-Tubes', Soldano, and Rivera branded Chinese 12AX7s. Find and take a look at just one and you'll always be able to identitfy them from ANY OTHER Make irregardless of how they are 'branded'.

As to the last posting on the Lonestar SPECIAL. It's the rectifier tube...and yes...sadly...they do go out like that.That's another Lonestar Special 'Quirk' that needs it's own 'Sticky' posting as well.

Cheers, Charles

I must say I really agree with this. V3 is the loop send and loop return, so it isn't that critical for tone. Reliability is really the most important thing here. I might also add that as far as I've seen so far, Chinese 12AX7s have top silver domes that start at a much higher point than on the Russian 2s for instance. If that makes any sense. Plus you'll instantly see the construction of the components inside having a couple of 'clue' points to look after.

 

[Rockin_Ron]

Hey:

As to the last posting on the Lonestar SPECIAL. It's the rectifier tube...and yes...sadly...they do go out like that.That's another Lonestar Special 'Quirk' that needs it's own 'Sticky' posting as well.

Cheers, Charles

Yes you would correct. When I contacted MESA this is the response I got from their customer service,

".... There are also no known faults in the rectification of the Lone Star Special. However, it is know that the recto tubes may not last as long when compared to something like our Dual Rectifier 100 watts heads. The rectifier tubes in our Dual's may last 5-10 years, where we expect the Lone Star Special Rectifier tube to last roughly 1-5 years when played in the 5 to 15 watt positions regularly. So in comparison, you can see there is definitely a difference, and this may be why you've heard what you have. I hope that helps explain things better"

I bought the amp used and it is in pristine condition, so its hard to say how much it was played before I got it. Personally, I just got 3 months from the recto tube and all the other tubes are fine. I seriously doubt this amp is 5 years old, so that's why I was thrown for a loop when this tube just quit like that. I guess I'm playing too much in that sweet 5 watt 2nd harmonic overdrive mode.

 

[VanillaGodzilla]

I know this is an old thread but I want to add my experience to this. I have a early 2000's LSS and have gone through a handful of 5Y3 tubes, I've found that the older ones last longer, even if they were used when I got them.

As far as this particular volume dropping issue - I ended up turning off the effects loop. Cleaning the input jack and replacing the tube didn't help my situation. Since I've bypassed the loop I've not had any issues.

 

[user 21540]

This was a bulletin sent by Mesa in 2008. JJs will work and last as cathode followers AFAIK but nothing Russian lives long in those positions:

SOUND “DROP-OUTS”? / INTERMITTENT SIGNAL
One Possible Cause
Most (but not all) Mesa/Boogie amplifiers have one or two “cathode follower”? tube stages in their preamps. Tube selection is CRITICAL in these stages.
Specifically, in a 12AX7 tube used as a “cathode follower”?, the voltage difference between that present at the cathode, as compared with the heater voltage, can be withstood or tolerated by certain types of tubes, whereas other tubes will fail. The failure of a “cathode follower“ tube will cause sound dropouts or signal loss.
For the past few years, Mesa has been using two types of 12AX7 tubes: ones originating in Russia (Sovtek EH), and ones originating in China. The Russian (Sovtek) tube is NOT reliable as a cathode follower. Of the tubes we are using today (March 2008), ONLY THE CHINESE 12AX7 IS RELIABLE AS A CATHODE FOLLOWER.
In conclusion, if you are troubleshooting for signal dropout in a Mesa/Boogie amp, suspect a cathode follower tube, and try replacing it with a Mesa 12AX7 that is marked as “CHINESE”? (silk-screened on the tube itself).
Below is a partial list of Mesa amps and cathode follower tube locations:
GUITAR AMPS BASS AMPS
Lone Star & LS Special: V3
M-Pulse: V2
Stiletto: V3 & V4
Venture: V2
Road King I: V3 & V4
Big Block 750: V4
Road King II: V3 & V5
Titan: V4
Roadster: V3 & V5
M2000: V2
Dual & Triple (2ch or 3ch): V3 & V4
Bass 400+: V2
Tremoverb: V3 & V4
ANOTHER POSSIBLE SCENARIO may occur in the “SPONGY”? (or on some models, “TWEED”?) power setting: the reduced filament voltage may cause very low output from a RUSSIAN preamp tube. Again, the recommended fix is to replace the “sagging”? tube with the CHINESE type of Mesa 12AX7 – which are more immune to this type of failure.

 

[tbonesullivan]

This was a bulletin sent by Mesa in 2008. JJs will work and last as cathode followers AFAIK but nothing Russian lives long in those positions:

Not "technically" correct. Anything Russian with a Spiral Filament design will not last long in the Cathode follower position. That filament design does not tolerate the over spec cathode to filament voltage that cathode followers generate. This is the same design used in the Sovtek LPS, EHX, Tung-Sol, and most of the Russian "reissue" style tubes.

On a side note, these also do NOT generate enough heat during undervoltage situations, so they do not work with the Mesa Variac. You end up with a VERY weak sound. I could never figure out why on spongy my TremOVerb was so anemic, or why if I turned it to "bold" and then back to "spongy" I had more power. Why? Because I heated up the tubes.

Now, the good old Sovtek 12AX7WA / WB/ WC will work FINE, as they have traditional filaments.

 

[user 21540]

Not "technically" correct. Anything Russian with a Spiral Filament design will not last long in the Cathode follower position. That filament design does not tolerate the over spec cathode to filament voltage that cathode followers generate. This is the same design used in the Sovtek LPS, EHX, Tung-Sol, and most of the Russian "reissue" style tubes.

On a side note, these also do NOT generate enough heat during undervoltage situations, so they do not work with the Mesa Variac. You end up with a VERY weak sound. I could never figure out why on spongy my TremOVerb was so anemic, or why if I turned it to "bold" and then back to "spongy" I had more power. Why? Because I heated up the tubes.

Now, the good old Sovtek 12AX7WA / WB/ WC will work FINE, as they have traditional filaments.

Fair enough. I've had 12ax7s die for me in that section on my Rocket 44 in the past. They were all Sovtek made. But the quality of 12ax7s is generally poor today anyway. Anyone who has lived through a plane crash or had a child with a de novo genetic condition will tell you that sometimes all the holes in the cheese line up. When I think of it, I've had loads of tube failures in the first gain stage tube too which on the Rocket 44 is V2.