Tremoverb with 4x12 speaker pairing suggestions

[RoadKinger483]

Hey guys, as some of you all may know from my other thread I recently accquired a 2001 (i believe) Mesa Tremoverb head. Sounds really nice and smooth and not as thrashy sounding as the rest of the rectifier series amps to my ear yet I still love that thrash :lol: . Either way, I'm running it through a Standard Oversized Mesa 4x12 with (England made) Vintage 30's. It sounds good but was wondering if you guys have tried this amp with any other speakers? I'd like something clearer and more crisp sounding for the cleans yet still really round and warm (I like my tone with quite a bit of lowend) but still retain the british mid flavor for the dirty channel. I like a tight punchy bass sound yet warm and nice mid character for drive tones. I was thinking about some Warehouse Guitar Speaker variants or some Scumbacks. Perhaps a mix of 2 different models in an X pattern. Any suggestions are welcome as there are so many speakers these days to choose from. Thanx

 

[b0nkersx]

I'm a big fan of the Celestion G12K-100 speaker. It's got punchy mids, super powerful and tight bass, and plenty of top end. Awesome cleans and awesome high gain tones.

Compared to a V30, the G12K-100 has more treble but less sizzle (a good thing IMO), smoother mids (no V30 honk), and more powerful bass that's about as tight as a V30. I run two G12K-100s and two V30s in an x pattern. It sounds like that's something might want to try. You'd only have to buy two new speakers if you go this route as well.

As standalone speakers, I like the G12K-100 better for cleans, and it's a toss up for high gain. I think having two of each is as good as it gets for me.

Also, from what I've read and from soundclips I've heard, the WGS Veteran 30 is a Celestion V30 with the upper mid character smoothed out. You could give that a shot, but a V30 wouldn't be a V30 if it didn't have its particular upper midrange character.. so it may not give you what you're looking for. I personally think the rectifier benefits a lot from having some extra weight in the upper midrange that the V30 gives.

Alternatively, you could look into EVMs. They are expensive and heavy though.

 

[RoadKinger483]

I'll definitely have to check out that G12K-100...sounds like something that might compliment the Tremoverb. I have been eyeing the WGS Veteran 30 for a while now. I definitely want to do something in an x-pattern. I play in a local cover band at the moment so I need something that's going to handle everything well and convinginly. I mostly play a PRS Singlecut with #7 pickups or a PRS Custom 22 with Burstbucker Pro pickups. I like lower output pickups because of the dynamics and clarity and just have the amp and pedals do the work.

Any more suggestions or ideas would be great...Thanx

 

[b0nkersx]

What kind of tones do you need? If you are going to be playing a lot of classic rock (Hendrix, Zeppelin, etc) there are better choices than the G12K-100.

Also if it helps with the description a G12K-100 is a G12T-75 (speaker Marshall uses a lot in their cabs) without scooped mids and with less sizzle.

 

[RoadKinger483]

We play mostly 90's - 2000's rock / alternative music....(Pearl Jam, STP, Incubus, Jimmy Eat World, Alterbridge, Third Eye Blind, Rancid....list goes on) We are starting to do more Classic rock ala Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Lynyrd Skynyrd, and sme 80's dance as well. So I have A LOT of ground to cover. I really don't like the Celestion G12T-75 speakers. They sound unnatural to my ears....no mids, hollow, kinda shrill top end. I do like V30's and have played some Greenbacks too. So, I was just wondering what else would pair good with the amp and music???

 

[b0nkersx]

Honestly I think V30s are your best bet. IMO they cover more ground than any other speaker. Are you mainly looking to improve your clean sounds? How set are you on changing them? To me it doesn't sound like the solution to your needs lies with speaker selection.

Greenbacks would be OK for the older stuff but even if you run two greenbacks and two V30s in an X pattern you will still only get 100W handling - it will flub and woof pretty easily and you run the chance of blowing the speakers at higher volumes.

 

[RoadKinger483]

hmmm....yea, I wanted a not so heavy mid tone for the cleans. I like the way the drive sounds but the cleans are a little too dark. I prefer dark sounding amps but I want to have a snappy, clear, punchy clean tone. Yet still warm enough to take pedals well; like my fulldrive 2, OCD, Suhr Riot, triqngle era big muff.....

 

[YellowJacket]

v30 + c90 is a great combination for Mesa amps. Mesa amps have a lot of detail in the tone and too much interference like speaker distortion can interfere and create mud.

 

[RoadKinger483]

ok, I decided to at least keep 2 of the V30's in the cab dn just replace the other 2. I also decided that I want a speaker thats gonna improve the clean channel. Something with more pronounced highs and maybe a bit more scooped in the mids (MAYBE). I don't really like that scooped mid, hollow tone though. Nothing extreme in these catagories just something along the lines with a good tight bass of couse

 

[YellowJacket]

Well, I think both G12H 30s or c90s are profitable options to mesh with the v30s. It depends what you want.

c90s will give you more rich low mids, smoother highs, and a better lead tone. The tone is overall smoother and less bright but the speaker pairing yields a very even and transparent tone. You will definitely be able to hear all the details of your crunch tone.

The G12H 30s will add speaker distortion into the mix but it will give you more of a warm and woody characteristic to the tone. Depends what you want....

I also like G12m 25s but this is different yet again, with even more speaker distortion. The G12m 25 actually has a very similar tone to the v30 so you really gain a more looser and open tone than anything.

Another popular combination is a G12T 75 with the v30. This will give more high end crunch and grind to the tone. It makes it 'beefier' in a way.

I prefer c90 and v30s with mesa to reduce / eliminate mud. Up to you what you like...

 

[b0nkersx]

c90s will give you more rich low mids, smoother highs, and a better lead tone. The tone is overall smoother and less bright but the speaker pairing yields a very even and transparent tone. You will definitely be able to hear all the details of your crunch tone.

The G12H 30s will add speaker distortion into the mix but it will give you more of a warm and woody characteristic to the tone. Depends what you want....

I also like G12m 25s but this is different yet again, with even more speaker distortion. The G12m 25 actually has a very similar tone to the v30 so you really gain a more looser and open tone than anything.

Another popular combination is a G12T 75 with the v30. This will give more high end crunch and grind to the tone. It makes it 'beefier' in a way.

I prefer c90 and v30s with mesa to reduce / eliminate mud. Up to you what you like...

Just a reminder, you need to be careful with G12H 30s and G12M 25s with a recto. A 4x12 will only be able to handle 120 watts with two G12H 30s and two V30s, and will only be able to handle 100 watts with two G12M 25s and two V30s. You run a significantly higher risk of blowing a speaker.

To add more in the way of discussion, I like the G12K-100 better than both the G12T-75 and C90 with rectos. I think you should give it a shot - it has punchy mids that aren't honky or scooped, with plenty of cut and thump.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I did the G12M-25 for awhile and it sounds great, but it won't give you a more detailed clean tone IMO. They produce a warmer, woodier sound with a nice vintage scratchy effect when you palm mute. The rolled off top end makes it seem like you're using less gain than you are as there's less fizz/sizzle on the top end, however the added speaker distortion stacks another layer of dynamics you can control with your fingers... it's kind of interesting.

The C90 will give you a more detailed clean tone. It's still a mid humped speaker, but relative to a V30 it sounds more neutral. Bigger bottom end, more push in the low mids with less punch in the upper mids. With a Recto it pairs really nice with vintage high gain, but I find it a bit weak with modern high gain due to the lack of upper mid punch. I've never tried them mixed (x pattern) in the same cab, but I've run C90 and V30 cabs side by side and they mate well.

I really don't like G12T-75s, although I do admit to liking they way they can record. After growing to hate my G12T cab switched it to an X-pattern with V30s and liked the improvement, but after awhile the G12T's scratchy top end really got to me and I reverted to using all V30s.

That said, I tend to favour V30s. They're not as strong as the C90s when it comes to bold lead tones, but they do get much more aggressive sounding when it comes to rhythm guitar and seem to contain the guitar to all the right frequencies.

Lastly, when it comes to playing on a live stage, microphones love V30s.

 

[RoadKinger483]

Thanx for all the suggestions guys....right now, with the info you guys have provided, it looks like I might be in the market for a pair of either C90's or G12K-100's. I'm kind of leaning more towards the Celestions though. I wish there was a way to hear them before I buy them....

 

[94Tremoverb]

I wouldn't worry at all about using either G12H-30s or G12M-25s. Celestions are very conservatively rated by comparison with most other speakers, four 25W Greenbacks will handle a 100W amp no problem, and four G12H-30s comfortably. The Tremoverb does not put out a full 100W in any mode other than Bold/Diode anyway - it's more like about 80W in Bold/Tube, 70W in Spongy/Diode and 60W in Spongy/Tube. (I did measure it once but I forgot where I put the figures - those are close though.) I currently have a stock V30 and a Gold (50W) in my Tremoverb combo, and I'm not concerned about that at all... even though the Gold isn't mine and costs a fortune .

The best I've ever heard my Tremoverb sound for clean and classic tones was through an old straight Marshall cab from about '69 or '70 with original G12M-25s in (which I know is cheating ). The bigger cab meant that it didn't roll off the bottom end quite as much as Greenbacks sometimes can, and it still sounded pretty good for the heavy stuff too. If it was mine I would have swapped two of them out for H30s though, I love that combination for more vintage tones.

For tighter modern sounds with a Mesa amp it's very hard to beat V30s and C90s.

 

[YellowJacket]

Yes, this v30 / c90 combination has been proliferating on the boards here. The oversized 2 x 12 with the v30 and c90 is far and away the best cab I have ever heard with my Recto.

Do you have any experience with thiele (TL806) type enclosures? I finally broke down and got an Electra Dyne. I'm trying to get my Thiele 2 x 12 speakered in a way that works favourably with the Electra Dyne. I have 2 G12m Heritage speakers in it right now and it sounds very nasal. I'm thinking a v30 and c90?

 

[RoadKinger483]

Played my first gig with this new setup over this past weekend and the V30's sounded pretty good!!! Having said that, I think the only speakers I might be interested in at the moment are the WGS V30 variants that are supposed to fix that mid range