Trem O Verb issues

[vitor gracie]

Hi guys. Forgive me if this has been talked about before, but can someone explain the LDR issue some of the older Rectos had? Specificly the TOVs. I just got a second one (head) and it sounds GOD AWEFUL! Switched tubes, etc and it sounds horrendous. The distortion sounds like it's... well.....distorting on itself. I can't get a clean sound on the amp on any of the settings at all due to it's nasty break up quality and the dirty channels all sound wrong and like they are over driven before the preamp section. The sound is almost like what you would imagine a broken tube screamer would be like plugged into the front of the amp. Its really bad. I am comparing it to my other Trem O Verb which sounds like a million bucks. All the sounds on that amp (the combo I own) are exactly as they are supposed to be...stupendous.

Its the same style head as my combo. Attached power chord, pointer style knobs, just sounds horrible. I have plugged it into 4 different guitars and 2 different cabs. Something ain't right. Maybe thats why the guy was so willing to part with it?

If anyone can shed light on the subject I would appreciate it.

p.s. please don't request my "tone" settings, I am an experienced Recto user and am fully aware of how to set the amp for the sounds. My other TOV was purchased brand new in '96 and I have had it for almost that whole time. I am sure there is something wrong with this new head. Just need insight on the LDR thing. Thanks.

btw, I really love this forum and read stuff here about every day. I have always appreciated the folks here.

 

[94Tremoverb]

If you've tried swapping tubes and it hasn't fixed it, I would consider returning it to Mesa for a full overhaul, or finding a good tech you trust. These are complex amps and it's not an easy thing to diagnose if it's basically working but sounds crap. (Much easier if it's totally dead .)

Typically the LDRs make things not switch as they are supposed to when they fail though, so it doesn't actually sound like that problem to me, if it's across all the channels. Have you tried running a signal directly into the FX return (obviously with the loop active, and with the Mix knob fully up) - that might show if it's a preamp or power amp issue. Is it weak on power as well? If so that might indicate that half the power section is down so it's giving only a half-wave output. That can be caused by a failure in the phase inverter circuit, a couple of burned screen resistors, or a dead OT...

 

[vitor gracie]

Thanks so much 94. I appreciate it. Well, looks like it will be going to Monsta to get looked at. I was really wanting him to mod something on another amp but this takes priority. I feel a little like I got a little bit screwed on this amp. I traded a Triaxis with a 2:50 for the TOV head. I couldn't stand the sound of the unit so I just wanted the head. The guy really made up for it in trading the matching 4X12 for some other gear of mine. He had the cab custom ordered for the TOV Head. He's a good guy. It all worked out in the end. I know he paid like $1,100 for the cab. The trade value for it was like around $500 for that cab so it kinda worked itself out i guess. It doesn't bother me too bad after the fact. I just want the TOV to sound the way it's supposed to.

The Trem-O-Verb is hands down my favorite amp Mesa has produced. They work so well for me.

Thanks again.

 

[94Tremoverb]

You know, I felt like I got a little screwed when I got my '94 too, since the seller didn't tell me about the two dead LDRs (said he never noticed, since one was in the channel cloning that he never used, and one was the Red channel reverb that he never used, so maybe...) but it was cheap, and after I fixed it it's just the best amp I've ever owned, or played through. I've played a couple of other ones and this old one just has the mojo for some reason. The others were plenty good enough as well, but this one is better . So I'm OK with it.

Monsta is a good guy, he needs another Tremoverb to compare his with right now since he's got an FX loop issue with his one .

 

[jamme61]

I bought my TOV on Ebay and had problems with it too. Like 94tremoverb said, they're complicated amps. Mesa told me that too, over the phone, and said I should send them, the amp. I've sent amps to Mesa, I've always been very happy with their work. It's a great amp and worth the time and effort IMHO good luck

 

[mefgames]

If it is an LDR issue, make sure they don't charge you. Mesa will authorize their Service Centers to replace them no charge. Mine went about a year before one of the channels just started dropping out. Took it to Mesa in Petaluma, 30 miles away, and they did a complete tune-up, charged zero for the LDR's

It's one of the best Mesa amps ever IMHO, Don't give up on it.


Good Luck, Mike

 

[peterc52]

If it is an LDR issue, make sure they don't charge you. Mesa will authorize their Service Centers to replace them no charge. Mine went about a year before one of the channels just started dropping out. Took it to Mesa in Petaluma, 30 miles away, and they did a complete tune-up, charged zero for the LDR's

It's one of the best Mesa amps ever IMHO, Don't give up on it.


Good Luck, Mike

Is it only in the US it's free or do you think it counts i europe too?

And how do you know if you should get your LDR's changed?

 

[94Tremoverb]

You would know if some of the switchable functions don't work, work intermittently, or sound weak - basically the LDRs are switches. So for example if the channel cloning switch doesn't do anything to the sound of the Modern High Gain mode when switched to Red To Vintage, or if the reverb on the Red channel sometimes doesn't work at all, and sounds like the control doesn't go above 10 o'clock even when it's working and turned all the way up, then I would suspect LDRs. (This is exactly what mine was doing when I got it.) If the amp just sounds bad or weak overall irrespective of what channel, mode etc you're in, it probably isn't LDRs since there will be at least some settings when the faulty one(s) are not used.

The LDRs are not actually that unreliable, but there are 25 of them in the Tremoverb so it's not that unlikely you may have one or two go out at some time either. Whether they're for things you use or not depends on whether you notice! (I do believe the guy that sold me mine, in fact.)

The Tremoverb (like the original 2-channel Dual Rectos) is also relatively unusual in that all the tubes are used in all the modes all the time - apart from the rectifier tubes in Solid State mode - so if you get a fault which does *not* occur in a particular setting, you know it isn't tubes.

I agree with mefgames too, this is one of the greatest amps ever made by Mesa or any other company, don't give up on it. It's complex but fairly straightforward to service once you can identify the exact fault, and no worse a bet in the long term than most other amps.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

:mrgreen: It's a lot easier to work on than a Road King! :mrgreen:

Hey Def,
My combo is a later one, made in 1998. I talked with Mike B. about it a few weeks ago and he said that I barely missed the cheap LDR issue.
Basically, they bought a boat load of LDR's (actually, he said that the company owed Mesa a bunch of money and traded the boat load of LDR's for some of their debt). He said that it has been a "Thorn in my ***," ever since. Funny guy, I like him! Doesn't even play guitar, but has great taste in tone!!!!!!

Anyway, if you unplug the amp, turn the standby to Play and let it sit for about 20 minutes, it should be safe to take the chassis out.
The Vactec LDR's have 3 lines of text on them and the text is very legible.
The cheaper ones (forgot the name, must be lack of coffee) have 2 lines of text that is a little blurry around the edges.

It is hard to say from a distance what the trouble may be, but LDR's also can partially fail. Most of the time, like 94 said, you will notice it because things just won't work properly. Sometimes though, they act like a semi-clogged drain pipe in the sense that they do not allow all of the signal to pass through them when they should, or they do not block all of the signal.

This sounds more like a circuitry issue, bad tube socket, bad solder connection, bad bias supply, etc.
Can you narrow it down?
Does it do this on both channels?
Have you tried 1 known good preamp tube, 1 position at a time to see if you maybe got a new tube that is bad?
You said it does it in all of the distortion channels, I'm guessing you mean Blues and Modern on the Red channel?

The more stuff you try, the easier it is to nail down.
On the other hand! :lol: My contracting business is officially out of work next week, so I need something to do other than plumbing (not a plumber, but have to act like one sometimes) around the house!

 

[vitor gracie]

Andy, (aka: Monsta) it's funny... I am finally home from touring and all that talk we did on the phone about modding has to wait. Lol! I'm a little bummed about it but I'm sure you can see how this is bigger. I'll use the TOV this weekend then ship it to you Monday. I'm sure it's not anything major. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. The loop on this one (ironicly) doesn't sound that bad at all.

Later today I'll do some trouble shooting for ya bro. Your the best man!

And thanks to all for the words of encouragement. I agree, the amp is worth the trouble. I forget sometimes they can be FIFTEEN YEARS OLD! I expected it to be perfect out of the gate like my Roadster. I still feel the sounds on the TOV (when working right) fit my playing the best.

I'll post an update soon.

 

[guitarzan1143]

It was Silonics, the company with the shitty LDRs. When they go bad, it effects channel switching, causing really shitty distortion, volume swelling, bad cleans, sometimes the EQ and knobs of ONE channel will effect the other. Mesa replaced all of mine, a few tubes, and a full going over for 150 dollars, not including shipping. Very reasonable and fair. came back sounding like the best amp i have ever heard.

 

[vitor gracie]

Update. The issue is definitely the LDRs. The tech I took it to was on the phone with Mike B. For a half an hour. There are four of them that are bad. If this is any help to any older Recto owners, my amp sounded like some of the dirty was coming through in the clean channel and a LOT of the clean sound was coming through the red and orange dirty channel.

The result was when I palm muted on the dirty, it was horribly muddy in a really bad way. Imagine playing a song off of a Lamb of god record or any chunky metal band on the clean channel with your humbuckers. Yuck. Now imagine dialing in some of that god-awful flubb into your insainly awesome Recto orange or red channel. One word-gross.

I seriously thought something was wrong with my new guitar. But all my others sounded like that. Ironicly the only channel uneffected was the Blues mode. Weird. I'll have an update soon. Mesa sent the parts for free.

 

[mbmesa]

Is there a way I can test the LDRs in my TOV without taking them out ? My TOV is one of the early ones and so far has been going strong except for a lack of bass response (overall) lately. I don't think its the LDRs because there is less bass in all channels but if there is an easy way to test them, then that would take that out of the picture.

 

[94Tremoverb]

You can't test them except by opening up the amp and metering them in operation - although you don't need the high voltage on, you can leave the amp on standby and the LDRs still operate, so it's not that risky - but you still need to know what you're doing.

But if the lack of bass response is across all channels and modes, it's not an LDR issue. Try changing tubes first.

 

[rectofried]

does the 2 channel rectos have the ldr issue?. mine sounds like mud and real weak volume wise only in vintage channel 2. the distortion sounds terrible in that mode only.

 

[94Tremoverb]

Yes, the 2-channels use the same LDR switching. A fault in one mode only is most likely to be this, since most of the other parts, including all the tubes, operate in all or at least two modes.

 

[rectofried]

i guess the tech i sent it to missed it...not surprising though.. :roll: