Suggestions for a Mesa amp for mid heavy sound

[Mike Lamury]

I have a Mark V that I got a couple months ago and I'm just not getting the tones I want from it. Im wanting a sound that's got a solid bass foundation and cuts through with plenty of upper mids and pushes treble without getting harsh. I was thinking about possibly getting a dual rectifier but what would you Mesa guys suggest in the Mesa line? I play punk and ska/punk music.

 

[domct203]

The dual recto is more low-mid centric with a lot of presence. It’s got mids, but not like a Marshall. You should definitely try before you buy.

Do you have a players tone for reference? Everybody has a different view on perceived mids.

Also do you want something from the current lineup, or are you open to older models?

I also could not bond with the MKV 90, I found mine harsh and hollow.

To me, Mesa’s amp models over the years are really distinct, with familiar tone and feel of other Mesa models mixed in which develops that Mesa sound. IMO they really do overlap across genres well across the models.

Try to describe your idea of the perfect tone for you, and it would be helpful if you could name a few players that could represent that tone.

Dom

 

[Mike Lamury]

A great tone for me would the classic 90's mid heavy punk sound. A sound that has a solid bass foundation but isn't flubby or too bass heavy and a sound that pushes mids especially upper mids, and pushes treble too without becoming harsh. I run the gain on my Mark V on 8. Some player's sounds for example maybe lars Frederickson from rancid or even Eric Melvin from NOFX.

I'm wandering if I should maybe try to buy a triple crown used or what other Mesa amps do the mid heavy thing well?

 

[CoG]

El Hefe plays a Mark III. It's a really good punk amp. So are Single Rectifiers.

 

[Mike Lamury]

El Hefe plays a Mark III. It's a really good punk amp. So are Single Rectifiers.

Anything Mesa currently makes?

 

[CoG]

Anything Mesa currently makes?

Badlander for sure. Single Rec Series II in perfect shape costs about 40 per cent of what a new Badlander does, though...

 

[bandit2013]

Badlander is probably in that ball park you want. Nice and heavy sound but no drone or muffled low end when palm muting. Stays tight. Midrange and top end are well balanced. All three modes on each channel can deliver different gain characteristics. The BAD-100 is one of my favorite amps to date. The only punk we do when I am with the group is "Sex Pistols", mostly ACDC and other stuff. I play drums in the group as the other two cannot. Simple but effective. Crush voice is similar to the JP2C lead channel, Crunch is similar to a Recto but without the low-end drone, clean is just clean to a Plexi character (sort of). Tone controls actually do something, unlike some of the Rectifier amps I have.

I am waiting on a set of the STR445 power tubes to try in my MWDR. Looking for a low end correction for that amp. the STR448 (red bias color) sounded sic. Very first time I was ever able to play a 7 string through the amp. It was a bit thinner sounding and bright but the low end grind was hard to believe. I tried the STR448 (gray bias color) and that was just too much, almost muddy. Rectifiers have more of a scooped tone to them. The only exception is the Badlander. That sounded sic with the STR448 with the gay bias color, the reds sounded lame. Best is with the EL34 as that was its intended format.

As for the Mark V, is it the 90W? There are some tricks to improve the 90W amp with just power and preamp tube changes. I finally got my V at a point I want to actually play through it. STR441 power tubes. This is what they use in the Mark V now. Not sure if yours is a new amp or used amp. As for the preamp tubes, V1=Svetlana, V2=Tung Sol V3-V6 =NOS Beijing Square Foil Getter and the PI (V7)= Mullard reissue long plate 12AX7A. What a difference that made. Tight low end with plenty of power and punch, no flubby sounds. Decent grind, now on par with the Mark VII in all respects except for the FX loop. I will have to look into the more recent Chinese tubes (gen 9 or whatever they are, those without the silver clips on the plates. Sometimes sold as 7025 tubes. I doubt they will be better than the Beijing tubes, those were the one's Mesa used back in the late 80's to 90's. I just did not like the character of the V with the stock preamp tubes. I now feel the V can step all over the Mark VII in tone capacity. At least you have the normal/bright switch. When set to bright it sounds just like the Mark VII. Normal mode it adds in a cathode bypass cap and warms up great. However, if your Mark V is a newer model, not sure if they are the same as they were in 2012.

As for the Triple Crown, The TC100 will have the bottom end but not as heavy as the Badlander. The TC is more tune to a Marshall tone but early version, unlike the JCM800 2204 or whatever it is. Closest Marshall tone is the Silver Jubilee 2555x as I have one of those. The Badlander is one of those amps that is hard to reference. More like a hot-rodded 2204 done properly but different and refined.

 

[domct203]

If your looking for a current model the TC-100 or Badlander would be a good choice.

I think the TC-100 is under rated, with a good EQ in the loop and a single preamp tube change they scream. CH 2 can be very in your face, and with a decent boost will have no issue with high gain. The Tight and Normal switches work really well, Tight is just that, with tight bass and clear highs. Normal adds more bottom, which gives the impression of less gain, but a boost pedal fixes that and can be dialed somewhere in between. CH 3 is a bit different, more compressed and fluid. I own two and use them in a stereo rig for heavy rock/metal.

I haven’t played the Badlander yet, but from everyone’s impressions here and elsewhere on the net it’s a great amp as well, a bit different from the traditional Rectos, but worthy of the name.

One’s tone is very subjective, is there a Mesa dealer near you that you can try these amps before purchase?

Dom

 

[GJgo]

If you're serious about upper mids, bringing some honesty to the discussion, that's just not Mesa's thing. Closest thing I've played to that is the Badlander however that amp has a complete lack of bottom end. Listening to your description I've gone through much the same thing for years, and finally (today actually) I have a Silver Jubilee arriving that should fit the bill. Marshall mids, actually has some ***, and plays well with V30s. If you want upper mids nothing beats a Marshall. Now, if you want mid or low mids, Mesa is your jam.

IMO Marks (that still don't do upper mids- 2200 is too low) are too tight for ska / punk. Any time I try to play that style on a mark I'm left wanting something that's a little looser & more wild. Rectos are looser & more wild for sure, but nowhere near upper mids.

Every time I see a touring band with one guitarist on a Mark or a Recto, and another guitarist on a Marshall or other British amp, the Mesa gets buried in the mix. Saying this as me being one of the biggest Mesa fanboys there is, while they do magic in the bedroom and the studio, they are challenged live.

 

[domct203]

I’ll agree with the Silver Jubilee, in fact IMO the TC-100 is in that ballpark.

Yes indeed, don’t rule out other amp makers, I have a Marshall DSL in my stable and it is a great amp. But I do prefer that ‘Mesa Sound’ and feel, as well as good lower volume tones, something my Stiletto Deuce can do better than the DSL.

Overall what matters is what works for you. It’s really hard to have someone else understand that tone in your head. Listen to the music you like and research their gear, all of it because there are a lot of ingredients to good tone, including the player and personal style. Try as many amps as possible then research them as well to find more comparisons of those you try to other amps.

Over the years I’ve learned that I favor the sound of maple topped single cut guitars, especially with a mahogany body, so it’s no surprise that I play mostly Les Pauls. I enjoy the structure and nuance of modern tones so I use high output pickups, but not the same pickups across my guitars because some pickups just work better in that guitar.

If you do get to go out to try amps be sure to bring your own favorite guitar.

Dom

 

[rarebitusa]

Yes indeed, don’t rule out other amp makers, I have a Marshall DSL in my stable and it is a great amp. But I do prefer that ‘Mesa Sound’ and feel, as well as good lower volume tones, something my Stiletto Deuce can do better than the DSL.


Dom

+1... for sure if someone really wants a Marshall... there's no substitute for the real thing but if you dig that Mesa DNA, a Stiletto with the right speakers is a very cool.

 

[bandit2013]

If you're serious about upper mids, bringing some honesty to the discussion, that's just not Mesa's thing. Closest thing I've played to that is the Badlander however that amp has a complete lack of bottom end. Listening to your description I've gone through much the same thing for years, and finally (today actually) I have a Silver Jubilee arriving that should fit the bill. Marshall mids, actually has some ***, and plays well with V30s. If you want upper mids nothing beats a Marshall. Now, if you want mid or low mids, Mesa is your jam.

IMO Marks (that still don't do upper mids- 2200 is too low) are too tight for ska / punk. Any time I try to play that style on a mark I'm left wanting something that's a little looser & more wild. Rectos are looser & more wild for sure, but nowhere near upper mids.

Every time I see a touring band with one guitarist on a Mark or a Recto, and another guitarist on a Marshall or other British amp, the Mesa gets buried in the mix. Saying this as me being one of the biggest Mesa fanboys there is, while they do magic in the bedroom and the studio, they are challenged live.

Would that be a 50W or the 100W?

Did you get the matching cab to go with it. That one is loaded with the 70W V30. The Jubilee is the only amp I have liked with those speakers. It also sounds killer through a Recto 412 cab too.

It is a good match to the RA100 if you have the right tubes in it. Silver Jubliee 2555x is stock with the Tung Sol EL34B tubes. Heavy amp too.

 

[Mike Lamury]

Thanks for all the responses. I've actually been considering maybe the badlander as Mesa isn't making any triple crowns right now. I have a marshall DSL40 that does the mids well but kinda lacks tight bass and can get harsh at times. Good amp though. I got my Mark V 90 because I was going for the versatility of the 3 channels but it seems like it's always a fight to get good tones. I'm in a rural area and can't really try anything before I buy it so that sucks. I guess I'll look more into the badlander....

 

[Eevil]

I’ve settled to Mark V head.. and it’s finicky beast but after a while kinda settled with clean/crunch/MarkIIC -setup

Been thru Stiletto/RA/ED/Diezel/Bogner stuff and the Mark V has been a champ.. and Euge Valovirta’s youtube clips kinda got me considering the Mk V again while GASing around

Glad I got this amp again (with Stiletto 4x12)

 

[bandit2013]

Thanks for all the responses. I've actually been considering maybe the badlander as Mesa isn't making any triple crowns right now. I have a marshall DSL40 that does the mids well but kinda lacks tight bass and can get harsh at times. Good amp though. I got my Mark V 90 because I was going for the versatility of the 3 channels but it seems like it's always a fight to get good tones. I'm in a rural area and can't really try anything before I buy it so that sucks. I guess I'll look more into the badlander....

There is a fix for the Mark V90. I never expected mine to sound so **** good but glad I held onto it.
Some of the tubes listed may be hard to get though. They were very inexpensive some time ago and in full abundance too. Mesa used then in the 1980-1990 time frame. Chinese Military grade square foil getter 12AX7A tubes. Sold by Ruby. The observable trait is the square foil getter. These tubes were made in the Beijing factory by Shuguang (assuming that is the company name). After the Beijing plant was closed, they moved to a different factory and produced them with a round halo getter. Those are not as good. If you can get them, they are key for V3,V4, V5 and V5. Only 4 will be needed. These are not the Chinese Silver Specials. Those have a round halo getter and are not the one's made in Beijing.

https://reverb.com/item/53575106-12ax7-beijing-foil-gettersSome of them can also be found searching for 7025.

These would work just as well.
https://reverb.com/item/70827338-me...d-pin-spax7-12ax7-ecc83-preamp-tube-1990s?bk=

The rest can be found at tube depot or TheTubeStore or any other place that sells current production tubes.
V1=Svetlana, V2=Tung Sol, V7=Mullard 12AX7A reissue long plate.

To top it off: you need to get some Mesa STR441 tubes. Greens preferred. These power tubes will have some very interesting grind characteristics. Tucked mids is how they are described. I did not like them in the JP2C but when I tried them in the Mark V90, holy crap this sounds great. I only had the amp chassis pulled to rube roll the preamp section.

 

[GJgo]

Would that be a 50W or the 100W?

Did you get the matching cab to go with it. That one is loaded with the 70W V30. The Jubilee is the only amp I have liked with those speakers. It also sounds killer through a Recto 412 cab too.

It is a good match to the RA100 if you have the right tubes in it. Silver Jubliee 2555x is stock with the Tung Sol EL34B tubes. Heavy amp too.
View attachment 1961

100W Badlander.

I did not get the matching cab, all my cabs are 2000-2003 V30 loaded Traditional Straight Recto 4x12s and they fit the bill. Life got a lot better after I 86'd all the 2005 & newer V30s.

Here's a quick clip.

 

[JPBoogie]

I have a Mark V that I got a couple months ago and I'm just not getting the tones I want from it. Im wanting a sound that's got a solid bass foundation and cuts through with plenty of upper mids and pushes treble without getting harsh. I was thinking about possibly getting a dual rectifier but what would you Mesa guys suggest in the Mesa line? I play punk and ska/punk music.

Hey Mike, I deal with the same issue of being in the country... that being said, a 4hrs trip to the store helped me pick a TC50 a few years back. I am not a Mesa amp expert like some others here so keep that in mind with my comments: I never looked back.

I played around with some tubes and the most recent revelation was thanks to @bandit2013 (12AT7 from JAN Philips). That single tube change my amp sound improve a lot. Not a necessity but something to keep in mind if you go the Triple Crown route.

I owned different amps in the past, Marshall JCM800 from the 80's (2210?), a Mesa DC10, solid state amps with tube preamps, different 412s, etc. Why I chime in is because the TC has this versatility and potential to sound both British and American but with its Mesa signature IMO. On channel 2 you'll definitely find Marshall-ish sounds... but with a boost before the amp or EQ in the FX it will totally change its color to something else. Channel 3 is a Mesa channel for sure... in CH 1 you may find Fender-ish / Vox-ish tones. Hard to describe perfectly... I regret not getting the TC100 but I am super happy with my TC50 and how it can be so versatile by itself, even more so with added pedals and one single tube swap.

And then there is a toggle switch that will tighten your sound and open the door to gain madness if that's what you look for. CH3 on tight, with the right guitar, will bring you to Punk in Drublic sounds, super close to the Recto's (I guess) they were using then.

Let us know what you settled for! All the best and remember, you can't go wrong with either a Bandlander or TC... it's a MESA!!!

Cheers,

 

[Mike Lamury]

Hey Mike, I deal with the same issue of being in the country... that being said, a 4hrs trip to the store helped me pick a TC50 a few years back. I am not a Mesa amp expert like some others here so keep that in mind with my comments: I never looked back.

I played around with some tubes and the most recent revelation was thanks to @bandit2013 (12AT7 from JAN Philips). That single tube change my amp sound improve a lot. Not a necessity but something to keep in mind if you go the Triple Crown route.

I owned different amps in the past, Marshall JCM800 from the 80's (2210?), a Mesa DC10, solid state amps with tube preamps, different 412s, etc. Why I chime in is because the TC has this versatility and potential to sound both British and American but with its Mesa signature IMO. On channel 2 you'll definitely find Marshall-ish sounds... but with a boost before the amp or EQ in the FX it will totally change its color to something else. Channel 3 is a Mesa channel for sure... in CH 1 you may find Fender-ish / Vox-ish tones. Hard to describe perfectly... I regret not getting the TC100 but I am super happy with my TC50 and how it can be so versatile by itself, even more so with added pedals and one single tube swap.

And then there is a toggle switch that will tighten your sound and open the door to gain madness if that's what you look for. CH3 on tight, with the right guitar, will bring you to Punk in Drublic sounds, super close to the Recto's (I guess) they were using then.

Let us know what you settled for! All the best and remember, you can't go wrong with either a Bandlander or TC... it's a MESA!!!

Cheers,

Thanks for the info. I would rather get a TC100 but Mesa isn't making them currently and I would rather buy a new amp so Im thinking about getting the badlander 100. I'm definitely going to look into the badlander more.

 

[Jay Omega]

I have a Mark V that I got a couple months ago and I'm just not getting the tones I want from it. Im wanting a sound that's got a solid bass foundation and cuts through with plenty of upper mids and pushes treble without getting harsh. I was thinking about possibly getting a dual rectifier but what would you Mesa guys suggest in the Mesa line? I play punk and ska/punk music.

What are your settings, and what speaker cab are you using?

 

[Mike Lamury]

What are your settings, and what speaker cab are you using?

I've been using the extreme mode on channel 3 and running into either a 2x12 or 4x12 with non Mesa V30's.