Random Mark V chat...

[Rkorn]

I'd like to add that I think IIC+ sounds better with a smaller cab than the oversized one. The oversized one sounds great with Mark IV and extreme modes, where the extra clarity helps with the Mark IV's extended bottom end, however with the IIC+ it gets a bit clinical/cold sounding. A smaller cab (Orange 4x12 in this case) adds a warmer, more woody texture and fills out the bottom end/low mids more, something that tended to make Mark IV mode sound kind of muddy.

This is what I love about this amp... new finding everyday.
I bought an open back Framus fr112, couldn't be happier. Its not the speaker, its the amp!! great amp, always good sound, better cab sounds even better.
IIC+ amazed me the other day when the amp sounded a lot different, I fiddled around and ended up playing some extreme riffs not knowing it was in the IIC+ mode instead of the IV mode.
My settings are more or less the same as yours but with higher presence.

PS: the will be gone tomorrow again... cracking sounds are back (What the hell did they to the amp for this crap noises appear again after 2 weeks...)

 

[Rkorn]

3 weeks next monday... and counting.
I'm getting really really pissed...

 

[SBG200]

Just made a discovery. I had always been using a volume pedal in the effects loop so I could adjust the overall level w/o affecting the gain. I'm in a 2 guitar band so this is pretty useful to do. My basic setting was to have the vol pedal probably around 1/2 to 2/3 up so there was always room to step on the gas if needed. So I started playing around with some settings in the manual and found they sounded terrible, like "who could ever actually like this?" bad. Long story short, taking the vol pedal out of the loop really made the amp come alive. It's like the highs had been getting choked off by reducing the signal going through the loop. Either way, I'll be pulling my vol pedal out from now on and going old school (i.e. turning knobs on stage) and see how that goes.

Anyway, not a groundbreaking story, but I guess the moral is to keep an eye on what you have in the loop--it could be killing your tone.

 

[boogieman60]

The loop is really sensitive . I always A/B my loop to make sure of My settings. Play with the FX off...Then switch them on and listen..I use a Cheap Digi RP 100 with great results..just for delays. I EQed the unit..Had to roll off some bass add highs..got the thing to sound pretty transparant. and set the volume...any thing you put in the loop should have EQ and Volume controls to balance it out...otherwise you are at the mercy of whatever....it sounds like...

 

[SteveO]

Just made a discovery. I had always been using a volume pedal in the effects loop so I could adjust the overall level w/o affecting the gain. I'm in a 2 guitar band so this is pretty useful to do. My basic setting was to have the vol pedal probably around 1/2 to 2/3 up so there was always room to step on the gas if needed. So I started playing around with some settings in the manual and found they sounded terrible, like "who could ever actually like this?" bad. Long story short, taking the vol pedal out of the loop really made the amp come alive. It's like the highs had been getting choked off by reducing the signal going through the loop. Either way, I'll be pulling my vol pedal out from now on and going old school (i.e. turning knobs on stage) and see how that goes.

Anyway, not a groundbreaking story, but I guess the moral is to keep an eye on what you have in the loop--it could be killing your tone.

A standard volume pedal will have this effect on the tone when in the loop, a 25K pedal is better suited for the line level signal.

 

[screamingdaisy]

The Mark V is one of those gifts that keeps on giving.

Every time I think I've achieved the best sound I can possibly dig out of it, I accidentally stumble across another sound that's even better than the last one.

Knowing that the increasing the treble also adds more gain to the tone, I'd been keeping the treble up higher and the gain down lower. I figured this would produce a tighter, more articulate result.

About a week or so ago I decided to reverse it for some reason. I dropped the treble and increased the gain... the results were an increase in definition (due to the decrease in harmonic sizzle/fizz) and a more articulate sound.

As a bonus, I was f*cking around the other day and threw the amp into IIC+ mode. The results were awesome. If you read up a number of posts you'll see how I really didn't like the IIC+ mode with the Recto cab due to a cold/clinical sound. This new treble reduced version sounds great. Lots of midrange balls.


Now... if only I could figure out some settings for a sweet, old school crunch tone out of Mark I mode...

 

[Rkorn]

I never could find a tone that I like with Mark I mode... with single coils it sounds way better.
Now that i have a new and a lot better, the amp just came to life AGAIN!
I just wish I could reduce the sizzle when I play with constant palm mute. It seems that i hear to much of the pick instead of the notes that i am playing. I'm not talking about chuga-chuga!

 

[screamingdaisy]

I never could find a tone that I like with Mark I mode... with single coils it sounds way better.
Now that i have a new and a lot better, the amp just came to life AGAIN!
I just wish I could reduce the sizzle when I play with constant palm mute. It seems that i hear to much of the pick instead of the notes that i am playing. I'm not talking about chuga-chuga!

I've gotten good tones out of the Mark I mode, they're just kind of specialized into areas that I don't really delve that deep. For instance, I get great ZZTop style sounds out of it, but I'm not in a ZZTop cover band so I don't really need a channel dedicated to that sound.

The problem is that crunch mode isn't all that useful to me. When I dial it in the way I like it's too similar to how I have channel 3 set up, so it becomes a redundant option. I also can't get a great low/mid gain sound out of crunch mode. The voice just seems to loose power as I back off the gain. Mark 1 mode on the other hand sounds has a set of brass balls... if only I could figure out how to harness them...

So I'm going for a "necessity is the mother of invention" kind of thing. I figure that if I keep using Mark I mode I'll be forced to work with the sound of it, and that I'll eventually stumble onto some setting that works really great.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Found this page while looking up something on the Mark IIC+...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_Boogie_Mark_Series

I found this detailed description of the Mark V, in which I've bolded the part I found really interesting. I've long felt that Crunch and IIC+ modes were extremely similar sounding, although I could never quite manage to get them to sound identical. I've mentioned it a number of times on this forum, but no one ever really responds to my comment. It's nice to know I'm not just hearing things.

The Mark V was introduced as the pinnacle of Mark Series innovations in early 2009. Much like its close cousin, the Triaxis Preamp, it features many voicings based on previous Mark Series amplifiers. It has three discreet channels, much like the 3 channel Dual Rectifiers, each with their own three band tone stack, gain, master, and presence controls. Each channel also has three modes, which control several of the amplifier's 49 relays to mirror the circuit it is modeling. Channel 1, or the clean channel features a Clean mode, based on Rhythm 1 of the Mark IV, Fat mode, which is taken from the Lone Star Classic, and Tweed mode, which boosts the gain into medium breakup, much like the amplifiers of its namesake. Channel 2 features Edge, which pays homage to various british circuits, particularly the Vox AC30, and Marshall JTM, Crunch, which is a lower-gain, looser version of the IIC+'s lead mode, and Mark 1 which is an exact replication of the original amplifier's Input 1 circuitry. Channel 3 includes the IIC+ mode, which is a faithful recreation of the elusive "Liquid Lead" tone, the IV mode, which is a Mark IV with the presence shift pulled out, and Extreme, which is a Mark IV with the presence shift pushed in.
The Mark V introduces for the first time, a channel-assignable graphic EQ. Older Boogies were equipped with graphic equalizers, but did not allow the flexibility that the Mark V's does. Each channel has a toggle switch able to select between active, off, or footswitched. Similar to the Express, and F-series amplifiers, the graphic EQ also features channel-assignable contour knobs.
The Mark V, similar to its predecessor, comes standard in a Simul-class format, but with a twist. Early Simul-class power amps were configured for SC-75 watt operation, or A-15 watt operation, or an increase of 10 watts when in pentode mode. The Mark V is biased warmer to produce an output of SC-90 watts, A-45 watts, and Single-Ended 10 watts, similar to the Lone Star. Channel specific multi-watt toggles dictate the power amplifier's operation class.
Additional features include Recto-Tracking, with the included 5U4G dual diode, three discreet reverb level knobs for each channel, a Pentode-Triode switch for Simul-Class operation, a variac Power option (identical to the Rectifier's Bold/Spongy switch), output and solo controls, and a new 8-button footswitch. Many complaints have arisen regarding the exclusion of an in-built MIDI interface, which is also absent on many of Mesa's high-end products, with the exception of the Triaxis Preamp.

 

[SBG200]

Found this page while looking up something on the Mark IIC+...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_Boogie_Mark_Series

I found this detailed description of the Mark V, in which I've bolded the part I found really interesting. I've long felt that Crunch and IIC+ modes were extremely similar sounding, although I could never quite manage to get them to sound identical. I've mentioned it a number of times on this forum, but no one ever really responds to my comment. It's nice to know I'm not just hearing things.

The Mark V was introduced as the pinnacle of Mark Series innovations in early 2009. Much like its close cousin, the Triaxis Preamp, it features many voicings based on previous Mark Series amplifiers. It has three discreet channels, much like the 3 channel Dual Rectifiers, each with their own three band tone stack, gain, master, and presence controls. Each channel also has three modes, which control several of the amplifier's 49 relays to mirror the circuit it is modeling. Channel 1, or the clean channel features a Clean mode, based on Rhythm 1 of the Mark IV, Fat mode, which is taken from the Lone Star Classic, and Tweed mode, which boosts the gain into medium breakup, much like the amplifiers of its namesake. Channel 2 features Edge, which pays homage to various british circuits, particularly the Vox AC30, and Marshall JTM, Crunch, which is a lower-gain, looser version of the IIC+'s lead mode, and Mark 1 which is an exact replication of the original amplifier's Input 1 circuitry. Channel 3 includes the IIC+ mode, which is a faithful recreation of the elusive "Liquid Lead" tone, the IV mode, which is a Mark IV with the presence shift pulled out, and Extreme, which is a Mark IV with the presence shift pushed in.
The Mark V introduces for the first time, a channel-assignable graphic EQ. Older Boogies were equipped with graphic equalizers, but did not allow the flexibility that the Mark V's does. Each channel has a toggle switch able to select between active, off, or footswitched. Similar to the Express, and F-series amplifiers, the graphic EQ also features channel-assignable contour knobs.
The Mark V, similar to its predecessor, comes standard in a Simul-class format, but with a twist. Early Simul-class power amps were configured for SC-75 watt operation, or A-15 watt operation, or an increase of 10 watts when in pentode mode. The Mark V is biased warmer to produce an output of SC-90 watts, A-45 watts, and Single-Ended 10 watts, similar to the Lone Star. Channel specific multi-watt toggles dictate the power amplifier's operation class.
Additional features include Recto-Tracking, with the included 5U4G dual diode, three discreet reverb level knobs for each channel, a Pentode-Triode switch for Simul-Class operation, a variac Power option (identical to the Rectifier's Bold/Spongy switch), output and solo controls, and a new 8-button footswitch. Many complaints have arisen regarding the exclusion of an in-built MIDI interface, which is also absent on many of Mesa's high-end products, with the exception of the Triaxis Preamp.

I'd be curious to see who actually wrote that in, i.e. if it was an MB engineer stating what they intended, or if it's just some random guy that thinks that's what he hears.

 

[SBG200]

My first Mark V annoyance. I was playing an outdoor gig in the sun yesterday and I couldn't see any of the lights on my footswitch at all. It would probably have helped if 1) the LEDs themselves were brighter, or 2) the light covers were actually clear or just not there at all. Channel switching wasn't an issue since you step on the channel button once and it's on, and I control my EQ settings from the amp. The real issue was not knowing when my solo boost or effects loop were on. I'd have to step on those switches an extra time or two and play to really tell where they were, which, in the middle of songs, was a drag.

No complaints about the sound though. I was running it at 45 watts on all channels and it didn't even break a sweat. Plenty loud, and with a V30/C90 combination, crispy.

 

[phyrexia]

Found this page while looking up something on the Mark IIC+...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_Boogie_Mark_Series

I found this detailed description of the Mark V, in which I've bolded the part I found really interesting. I've long felt that Crunch and IIC+ modes were extremely similar sounding, although I could never quite manage to get them to sound identical. I've mentioned it a number of times on this forum, but no one ever really responds to my comment. It's nice to know I'm not just hearing things.

I'd be curious to see who actually wrote that in, i.e. if it was an MB engineer stating what they intended, or if it's just some random guy that thinks that's what he hears.

Crunch mode does not share the same topology as the IIC+ mode. I do not believe the circuit is similar enough to be called a 'lowgain iic+". crunch has lots more low end too, doesn't it?

 

[screamingdaisy]

Crunch mode does not share the same topology as the IIC+ mode. I do not believe the circuit is similar enough to be called a 'lowgain iic+". crunch has lots more low end too, doesn't it?

When I listen to crunch mode it sounds like a lower gain version of IIC+ with a notched mid and boosted bottom end. It's as if they listened to a bunch of studio renditions of the C+ sound and created a channel that could produce those tones without the need for studio magic.

Still, I'd be interested in any details anyone could provide about the topography of the two channels, or what - if anything - the Crunch mode is modelled after.

 

[MusicManJP6]

I'm really digging this thread. Glad someone brought it back to life so I could catch up. ScreamingDaisy, I can appreciate your seasoned ears and the thoughts you have added to this thread.

Just last night I came to some realizations....

Mark I mode sounds killer in 45w/tube, master at 1:00, bass off, GEQ off, everything else to taste

Also found that I much prefer lower presence (9:00ish) and slightly higher sliders (last two) in CH3 - seems to smooth out the top end

I'm digging CH1 - Fat in 45w/tube with master cranked as well

Only thing I'm worried about is the channel masters since they are the FX loop send. All I have in the loop is a Flashback delay and it still sounds great so I'll run with it!

 

[screamingdaisy]

I'm using some settings I pulled off Mesa's new sound samples on their website...

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Mark_Series/mark5/mark5.html#gpm1_4

Ch-1: I already had their "Fat Clean" setting dialled in, only with a touch less bass as I'm using humbuckers.
Ch-2: I like the "Crunch" setting they have. It's kind of dark and I really have to work for each note, but it's a change from the way I normally dial it in and I like the variety it adds as I tended to dial in Ch2 to sound very similar to Ch3.
Ch-3: The "Mark IV Rock Rhythm" setting is really cool. Again, it's a lot darker than what I'd typically dial in, but it has a nice crunchy edge rather than the more saturated "chug" I tend to dial in. The only thing I had to change over the demo is that I don't like using Triode with EL34s. I find it gives them kind of a weird feeling.

It's cool that they mixed up the power settings on their demos. I typically lean towards the max headroom/90w settings, however the examples they gave had a lot of 45w type stuff. I think this is the first time I've ever used the amp with all channels in 45w mode and liked the results enough to stick with them for awhile.

It's nice to have some new sounds up my sleeve to work with.

 

[zilla]

I just spent the entire evening exploring the possibilities of the mark I mode.

all I can say is... incredible!

I boosted the signal with a tube screamer and I was in heaven.

 

[SBG200]

I just spent the entire evening exploring the possibilities of the mark I mode.

all I can say is... incredible!

I boosted the signal with a tube screamer and I was in heaven.

Agreed. My main (and favorite) sound in the V is Mark I mode with the gain around 9-10 o'clock and a TS for boosting when needed.

 

[boogieman60]

I use a comp. to boost the sig. works well for me..can get some awesome pinch harmonics.on the clean chan. in Fat mode. I have also used the tube screamer in that way..I find that instead of always switching channels if you boost the one your on, it can give you the lead tones you are looking for. That being said going from 2 to 3 is a blast...I have 2 set up for a nasty crunch sound and 3 set up for a singing lead tone in mk 4 mode. when I toss in the comp on 3 I have unending sustain...ah..the beauty of it all.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I don't remember when I switched back to 6L6s (been several months as a minimum) but I switched back to EL34s again today. Every once in awhile ill change something and my wife will comment that something sounds better than normal. Today was one of those days.

For context, I've been trying really hard to get a better sound out of my Widebody mini-stack. I have both an open back top and front ported bottom. Typically the top sounds too mid heavy, lacking definition and producing a choked off bass response with a weird compression on bass notes. The bottom cab thumps, but sounds kind of harsh on the top end and is super directional (i.e., hard to hear).

I've swapped speakers several times, never really nailing the sound I want (or even nailing any sound that I find remotely inspiring). The results are always too boxy with a weird response. In fairness, these cabs sound great at band practice, but I don't really like them when they're on their own.

Today I stuck EL34s back in and the sound was excellent. Their frequency response seemed to suit the cabs better and the results were far more natural feeling. I felt inspired, my wife noticed.

That is all.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Kind of a crappy picture, but it should help the explanation.

Top 1x12 cab is a G12M-25, open back.
Bottom 1x12 cab is a Mesa V30, front ported.

With 6L6s I couldn't get the right response. I figure it was too much bass and low mids, didn't jive with the 1x12 cabs regardless of my speaker choice and gave off a weird compression. The cabs sound fine through an SM57, or at band practice... but standing in front of them when jamming at home has always been uninspiring.

With EL34s however both cabs smoke. Crunch sounds outstanding and Mark IV just screams. The compression is far more natural and the bottom end isn't bloating out. The G12M is adding a totally different vibe than I'm used to when playing through a Recto cab. More vintage, more crunchy. I think I'll leave it in there.