New DC-10 Owner

[adamlanghans]

I recently purchased a mint condition DC-10 for $600 bucks. This thing is beautiful. Admittedly, it was pretty grainy at first, lacking sustain. The master volume jump was annoying, too. I still had faith, however. After switching out the power tubes for some JJ's, and three of the preamp tubes, I knew that this amp was apt to change in a very good way. I read some of the tube recommendations here, and after many many combinations, I've smoothed out that grain and found a new amp in this baby.

Here's where the magic is at:

Power tubes: Winged C 6L6's (although the JJ's sounded nearly the same, not darker as people say)

Preamp tubes:
V1: Groove tubes 5751
V2: JJ ECC81
V3: JJ ECC803
V4: JJ ECC81
V5: JJ ECC803
V6: JJ ECC81


I am using this amp in a progressive death metal band, although I often play blues, satch-style rock, jazz, etc.
These tubes do NOT reduce the gain. They change the gain structure. I must have tried 15 combos of preamp tubes before coming to this. I have other JJ's, groove tubes, and ruby tubes, so I know what I'm saying when I say this amp now sparkles.

I would describe the sound as having a percussive sparkle, with a nice juice to it. The sound is focused, but not too much so. The crunch is really chunky, instead of buzzy. My mesa now out-crunches my bandmate's Peavey XXX and 5150 (don't be hatin', they're great amps).

Eventually, I'd like a recapping and some Mercury Magnetic transformers (as much $$$ as buying another amp!), but for now, this is a great sound.

Last of all, I use an Ibanez rg2550e prestige as my main guitar, but I've tried an ESP, a washburn strat-copy, and an Ibanez artcore through this amp. They all sound tasty through this amp.

 

[MJ Slaughter]

Welcome to the club. I love my DC-10 head so much I bought a DC-3 combo for a grab-n-go amp but it doesn't have anywhere near the girth the 10 has. Did you get the combo or head? Playing live and having a chance to turn it up a bit gives me total satisfaction and controllable sustain for as long as I need. I did a cap job on mine and it seemed to tighten up the low end a bit but I have not thought about upgrading the OP transformer.

If you're going to be running something through the fx loop you might consider doing the serial loop mod.

 

[SonicProvocateur]

A recap maybe, but I wouldn't suggest changing the transformer's out; it what gives the Mesa it's character!

Playing with the tubes is best though! It can change the tone TONS - even more tonal character change, also try running something like a TS9 or green screamer in front of it! Gain city for the DC series. I'd like one for a backup for my Mark!!

 

[adamlanghans]

A recap maybe, but I wouldn't suggest changing the transformer's out; it what gives the Mesa it's character!

Playing with the tubes is best though! It can change the tone TONS - even more tonal character change, also try running something like a TS9 or green screamer in front of it! Gain city for the DC series. I'd like one for a backup for my Mark!!

With this tube set-up, I have alllllllllllll the gain I need. I have a Keeley TS9 Flexi pedal, and I shant be needing it.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Well ****! That's a great price!
I don't have mine anymore or I would try that tube combination.


As for the Mercury Magnetics....
I've done a lot of experimenting and here is what I have found.

Power Transformer - It does seem to add a certain smooth character to an amp to change the PT. Not sure it's worth the extra $250 though.

Choke - This made a large difference in smoothing out every amp I tried it in. On my Maverick though, I did not have the money to get MM transformers, so I tried removing the endbells of the choke. This seemed to have a noticeable effect also and was absolutely free!

Output Transformer - This has a tremendous effect on most amps with under sized OT's, like Mesa has. My Heartbreaker sounds freakishly huge and clear now. The distortion is so much creamier and the cleans just sing. I also noticed an incredible amount of extra sustain that simply wasn't there before the swap.


I would just get a MM Output Transformer and pull the ends off of the Choke and you will have one of the best sounding DC-10's out there.

 

[lockbody]

Well sh!t! That's a great price!
I don't have mine anymore or I would try that tube combination.

In your old one I run:
V1 JAN Phillips 5751
V2 JAN Phillips 12ax7
V3 EH 12ax7
V4 JAN Phillips 12ax7
V5 GE 5 Star 12at7
V6 *whatever you had in there when I got it.

In my old DC-5 I ran the "Edward" mix:
V1-3 12ax7
V4 5751
V5-6 12at7

And for that amp it was awesome, but it didn't work for the DC-10 The at7 in the PI slot just emasculated that amp somehow. I know I had you goose the gain a tad when I bought it, but running that 5751 in V1 turns that amp into the ultimate classic hard-rock cover amp (which is what I'm doing right now). Swapping V1 and V4 turns it back into a face melting beast.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Damnit Bob! Now you got me gassing for another one!!!!!!!!

 

[adamlanghans]

Forgive my ignorance -- I'm still (and always will be) learning as I go...

What, exactly, are the "end bells"? If you could quickly explain how to do this, I would be much obliged.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but....

Endbells:
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/english-store/End-bells-for-Transformers-c-27_118/

They are glued together and held on by a piece of bent metal on the Mesa Chokes.

I got the idea from Paul Patronette at Mercury Magnetics. He basically says that any choke with end bells is worthless because they block the majority of the magnetic flux. He says that any choke will work better with no end bells. I looked at pictures of every Vintage amp that I could find. Especially the ones that are highly sought after. Most of them had no end bells on their chokes.

I did a little experiment on my Maverick by playing it for about 30 minutes at a decent, but not extremely loud volume. Then, I removed the end bells on the choke and played it again for about an hour with the same exact settings. I have to admit, the amp seemed to sound much more musical and was a little bit more quiet. Take my experience with a bucket of salt, but I'm not putting the end bells back on.

 

[adamlanghans]

Thanks very much! I'll try this and report back as soon as I can.

 

[adamlanghans]

How am I supposed to get the glue off? I'm having a very difficult time seeing how I can get these things off.

 

[ErickG]

I haven't looked at my amp... But an End Bell is just a cover for the power transformer? Looking at the link provided by Monsta-Tone the pictures show what looks like a cover of some sort. Removing this cover "can" improve the sound?

Since being educated is a good thing... Review the DC-5 Schematic, the choke is where the power is reduced from 110 to something the amp uses? Just a guess based on what the word choke can mean.

Thanks,
Erick

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I had to use a little bit of gentle force.
I used a small screwdriver or chisel.
Place the choke on a hard surface like your work bench. Don't do it while you're holding it.
I put the screwdriver up against the edge of the endbell and gently tapped it with a hammer. Don't kill the choke or stab yourself though.



According to Paul, the end bells on a choke dampen the magnetic field too much.
The purpose of the choke is to provide smoother DC power. It helps to minimize the DC Ripple after the 1st filter capacitors.

I have only tried this on 1 amp. I did replace the choke on my Heartbreaker, but I replaced the entire transformer set at the same time.
On the Maverick, I removed the end bells before I replaced the Output Transformer and tried it.
I noticed that the amp seemed to breathe a bit more, and like I said, it seemed a little bit more quiet as well.
This, in no way at all, was a controlled environment and maybe not even a valid experiment. I did like the results though, so I kept it that way.


Now.....back to the DC-10......

 

[adamlanghans]

*UPDATE*

I haven't gotten around to taking those endbells off yet; I'm in an active band and university, so I can't afford to have my amp out for that long.

What I HAVE tried, however, is replacing the two middle power amp tubes with some Mullard EL34s I had lying around. The combo of 6L6 Winged C's with the EL34s gets the amp a LOT closer to a petrucci-type lead tone. The rhythm channel doesn't sound as glassy, but I mainly use the lead in my band. Oddly, however, it seems like a very small amount of gain is gone. I'll have to play around with the preamp tubes again...

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Better get your Bias checked!
I'm not saying that this is a bad idea, because it just may work, but I would definitely check the Bias. Otherwise, your amp could be headed for a complete melt down!

 

[adamlanghans]

The 6L6s are rated at 26 and the EL34s are at 29. I read that the DC 10's were rated at about 45, and the tubes do indeed seem to run a bit cold (only a faint blue glow). I've already spent hours playing, with no signs of hum, noise, or anything like that.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Hmmmm! I'm gonna have to keep this in mind!

Eurotubes sells sets of 6L6/EL34's that are fairly closely matched.
Might have to give this a try in my Heartbreaker. It sounds so good with EL's though that I just don't want to mess with it.

 

[adamlanghans]

Okay, what's the deal? I did the volume mod, but any difference in taper is negligible. Yes, I'm sure I did it right.

Maybe I should just replace the pot entirely? If so, anyone have any good recommendations?

 

[Monsta-Tone]

It's all about the volume that you play at. The Volume Mod only really affects lower volume playing.
The idea is to get rid of the huge jump between no volume and concert volume.

 

[adamlanghans]

That jump is what I'm complaining about. It sure gave my roommates a shock when I tried it out last night!