NAD JP2C, well ok, almost

[soloistthree]

Hello all! I've been cruising these forums since probably 2001, which is a crazy long time to not join/post Anyway, FINALLY got a Mark III green-stripe a few weeks prior, and I loved it so much that I pulled the trigger on a JP2C yesterday. It'll probably be a week before I get it, but I'm super excited about it!

I was actually going to grab a Mark VII at the same time, or a Badlander, which I'm still on the fence about. Any opinions there? I'm totally on this Pokémon-like trip with these Marks now, "got to catch them all", lol. Any opinions you guys have on the Mark VII and the BL? Is the Mark VII redundant, since I have the JP? Also, is the new Mark VII mode anything close to the badlander?

 

[bandit2013]

Some advice on the JP2C after you get it. Have fun. See what power tubes they are using in the amp, I am curious if they are still using the STR443 or did they make a change to the STR448 or STR445 tubes. When I bought mine in 2016, it came loaded with the STR440 which I feel are far better sounding than the STR443 tubes. The STR448 opened up a new world of tone which I felt was missing with the STR443 tubes when I tried them. The STR445 also sounded good too. The best option if you do not mind spending $500 on a quad of tubes, this is a special order but you need to get them direct from Mesa by emailing customer service. They may still have the STR415 Sylvania tubes but are not set up for retail purchasing. It is a special request, more of a private transaction. Highly recommended. If they are not available, bummer. The next best thing is the STR448 in green or gray bias color. Both the STR448 and the STR415 will wake up the JP2C to its full potential. If you like the tubes that are in it, no need to change. I felt there was more chime in the clean channel with the STR448 tubes. I got those in a gray bias color just like the other tubes I have tried. STR415 are only available in green which is used as the gold standard for Mesa testing.

As for the Mark VII, it is not redundant by any means. Sure, the IIC+ mode is on par with the JP2C (if the amp has the STR415 power tubes installed in it). It may be a tad bit brighter but very close to CH 2 in all respects. The tone density is a bit more with the JP2C as it is a Class A/B amp. Note definition is usually related to the bias color in the Mark VII. Mine came with the STR445 greens, I changed to the yellow bias color in the STR445 tube which improved note definition. Now it is much closer to the JP2C with the STR415 tubes. Mark IV mode is also close to the JP2C channel 3, and the fat clean is very much the same as the clean channel but the exception is that you can get more gain out of the Mark VII clean channels. Tone controls behave a little differently than the JP2C. Since they do not sound identically the same, just very similar, it is not redundant. Also the Mark VII can do other things the JP2C cannot do. Without a doubt, I am sure I could dial in the JP2C to mimic crunch as I could do with the Badlander. The Mark VII has two modes that will be out of phase with the JP2C if you decide to run them in parallel. Crunch and IIB. This is also the case with the Badlander but with the crunch mode only. Crush will be in the same phase and in a similar spectrum of character as the Mark VII and JP2C. Mark VII mode is an extension of the crunch as this inserts the lead dive circuit in a different location. The tone stack becomes post gain in Crunch and Mark VII modes. In the IIB, IIC and IV and both clean modes, the tone stack is pre-gain.

The other difference is the power section. Simul-Class vs Class A/B. JP2C and the Badlander are both Class A/B. The Mark VII runs full pentode in 90W, drops the Class A/B outer pair of tubes in 45W extended class A but still pentode, and at 25W it is extended class A in triode. There may be some similarities to the Badlander100, it too runs two tubes in triode in the 25W power setting but it will be a Class A/B not extended class A. The Badlander sounds best with the STR447 EL34 or the new STR446 EL34 (red base TAD tubes). I really like the STR446 EL34 a bit better but not using them as I have two Badlander 100 used in stereo. The STR448 in the gray bias color also sound great in the Badlander but the EL34 is much better for this amp.

I would say there are some similar traits with the Mark VII and the Badlander 100. The clean modes are different but equally as good. I can dial in the BAD clean for that plexi sound where as the Mark VII gets a little wooly with a moderate gain on the clean. Not quite the same circuitry used in the preamp. Crunch vs Crunch, they are close but different. Blending of the BAD and mark VII sound really good together. The BAD has one slight advantage, note definition is more detailed than the Mark VII but this depends on the power tubes used in the Mark VII. Also the BAD has a variac power mode that brings the amp much closer to the MWDR characteristic and scoops out the tone. No Variac power on the Mark VII or JP2C. As for the VII modes, it is also close to the Crush mode on the BAD. Close but not identical. There are some tonal variations with the BAD as the preamp circuit is different than the Mark amp. The BAD still uses the cold clipper circuit and dc coupled cathode follower for the tone stack driver. This is not found in the Mark VII. It does not mean you cannot get a close approximation of the BAD with the Mark VII or even the JP2C. That was my first thought when I ran the BAD in Crush, it sounds like the JP2C, call it the poor man's JP2C as that amp is now priced above what I would be willing to pay.

I would almost say the Mark VII has the Badlander built into it, only in terms of character and tone. I can dial in the Mark VII to get very close to the Badlander and I can also do the same with the JP2C. There are still differences in response and characteristics which is more related to the preamp circuits than the power tube circuit but that also play a role in the differences. Here is a graphic matrix of the JP2C, Mark VII and BAD. This is for the gain modes only. JP2C and Mark VII share a common topography but are different in vocal characteristics.

The rounded rectangles represent one triode in the 12AX7 tube. Note that there are two triodes per preamp tube. For V1 tube, it would have a 1A and 1B triode. Badlander is much closer to a Marshall preamp than the any of the Dual rectifier amps as it has a 15k ohm cathode resistor vs the 39k ohm in the cold clipper circuit (light blue color) along with cathode follower tubes (purple color). As for the JP2C/Mark VII I highlighted the lead drive circuits in red.

I am a sucker for running in stereo, reason why I have two Badlander 100. Mark VII has the black face plate and the JP2C has a cream/black jute faceplate. I did change the faceplates as the JP2C will fit in place of the one on the Mark VII. Since I will be bringing out the JP2C again (it is in the other room) I will just put on the original JP2C black faceplate so my OCD does not kick in. I do not mind the cabs not matching the amps. I honestly do not feel one or the other would be redundant. Bad, MKVII or JP2C. They are not identical but can be dialed in for a close match. JP2C can only be dropped to 60W, but the other two have a lower half power BAD 50/ VII 45 and both have the 25W power. Bad will take it down a notch in variac power mode.

 

[bandit2013]

I would recommend you go though the typical suggested settings in the manual. If you have not read through the online manual yet, I would suggest doing so. There are some interesting facts about the JP2C tone controls and gain settings that are a good to know thing. This is generally where the JP2C differs from the Mark VII as I have tried some of the techniques described in the JP2C and did not get the same effect. Even though the basic layout may be similar, the Mark VII is a new design and the JP2C is a re-engineered version of the IIC+.

Once you get the amp, explore its potential without considering any power tube or preamp tube swaps. You may like what the amp will do with how it was equipped. I am just curious to find out what power tubes are in the amp in general as Mesa has changed from the STR440, to the STR443 (Russian tube) and now to what? If they have a red base, those would be the STR448. The STR number should be printed on the glass just below the Mesa logo. I just had a preference for a different tube than the STR443, I was too familiar with the STR440.

Have fun with the new amp when you get it. I know what you are in for. No worries, it should be a rewarding experience.

If you do compare it to the Mark III, it will be different if it is a DRG than HRG. Where D is Simul-Class, H is 100W and the R, G stands for reverb and GEQ. I sort of wish I kept my Mark III now. It was a combo and too heavy to lug around.

 

[bandit2013]

Just so you do not have to take a look inside, it is not an easy amp chassis to get back into the head shell. Here is the gut shot of the JP2C.

So once you get the amp, I assume it is not the Limited edition model. If it is, the only way to get access to the preamp tubes would be to pull the chassis out. Faceplate on that version of the amp is fixed in place and not removable. However, if it is the run of the mill signature model that looks like this, amp on the left, the faceplate can be removed.

Here is a hint how to get access to the preamp tubes. Loosen up the four screws on the faceplate but do not remove them completely, If you cannot pull out the screw you need to loosen it more. Grab the two screws on each side at the top and pull. It may be a tight fit, you can then pull on the lower screws if needed. The piping on the grill is what is holding it in place. Pulling at the top will not mess with the piping and the Tolex. The Faceplate can be removed. Why this is not in the manual is beyond me.

 

[soloistthree]

If this were reddit, I'd give you all the kudos and karma points I could, what a wealth of information you shared! Thanks so much

I ended up pulling the trigger on the Mark VII today, I was going to go used but a dealer friend of mine offered me a sale price I couldn't say no to on a new one. It was a Black Friday kind of thing, let's just say it might have been under $3k

Anyway, yeah, I am a sucker for the Mark series aesthetic, and now that I'm familiar with the Mark III, also, how they work. I do want a Badlander 50 (my dealer friend says the 50 sounds better for whatever reason), but that one I'll wait a few weeks on, or maybe sell some stuff to pick up. I'm basically buying all the amps I ever wanted after about 10 years of not buying a **** thing and putting everything towards my mortgage, so it's kind of insane just how many amps I've bought over the last 2 months

Anyway, should be interesting to compare the Mark VII to the Mark III, and I am intrigued about the Mark VII mode. I was secretly hoping the Mark VII mode would give a Badlander sound, since both amps seem to be created in the spirit of Mark meets Recto (well, the Mark VII mode on the Mark) and of course the Badlander itself. Maybe an amp modder will come out with a Badlander mod for the Mark VII channel, then it would the be end all, be all Mark amps to me, at least "on paper" right now

It will probably be a week before I get any of these amps, probably going to be the longest week long wait ever, but again, I'm thrilled about it. I'm happy that I decided to try the Mark series again, as many years ago I tried the Mark IV and absolutely hated it and I wrote these amps off entirely. Little did I know that with a little bit of reading and patience I would later discover that these amps are fantastic and absolutely have the sound I hear in my head Though It is a shame it took me so long to come back to these amps, as I can't tell you how many Mark IIC+'s I passed on for $1500-2200 back in the late 90s and early 00's...but hindsight is 20/20, lol

 

[bandit2013]

Can you tell which is which?

Not sure on the Badlander 50. I am hooked on the BAD100, had to have two of them. I was considering a second JP2C but bought the second BAD100 instead. I much prefer the big iron over the 50W. Besides I can run the amp at 100, 50, 25W. Lately I have been running at 25W along with the Mark VII at 25W. There is no local shop I can go too to demo the BAD50. Considering the differences I encountered with the TC50 and TC100, was unsure if the BAD50 would be as weak as the TC50. Besides, I would rather have the capacity to run a full stack (two 412 cabs) if needed. TC100 was capable, the TC50 fell on its face and could not deliver without a volume loss.

If you get the opportunity to compare the BAD 50 to the BAD 100, would like to hear your opinion on the differences if you find any.

Cool that you scored a good deal on the Mark VII. It will be a little different. Just keep this in mind, when you set the channel volume past 10am, it will be loud. I have to set the JP2C channel masters to noon or 1pm to be at the same level. Makes me wonder if the V2 in the amp is on the weak side. That is where the volume controls are located in the signal or gain path. Mark VII, it uses double ganged pots, instead of a single potentiometer element it has two. I assume one is for the post FX volume control and the other is a pre FX volume or send level. Here is a gut shot of the Mark VII. That blue board near the top center is the two-notes board for the IR function. The Badlander has the same thing.

Badlander 100W gut shot. A bit simple in design, it is not doing the same stuff as the other amps so not as many relays and only has two channels. The BAD100 is one of my favorites. Second to the Royal Atlantic RA100 but may be on the same level. Totally different amp but sounds just as good.

The BAD 100 is a beast. It is a performer for sure. Not sure which is louder, the BAD, MWDR or the Roadster.

 

[bandit2013]

I have expired my knowledge on the subject.
I do not know the innards of these amps. No expert by any means. Just a novice collector of sorts. I do not have racks of guitar amp heads like some people. I try to limit myself to what I like and make use of them. During my groups jam sessions, the Badlander is the guitar players first choice. It is one of those amps that is difficult to make it sound terrible, it seems to cut through the mix. I play the drums in the group. I am more of a guitar player than drummer or bass player but why not get all the toys and figure it out.

 

[bandit2013]

@soloistthree , did you get the amps yet? Curious how things turned out for you.

 

[soloistthree]

I did! The Mark VII is probably my favorite right now, though it honestly sounds just like my Mark III, only with TONS more options, all of which sound uniquely great in their own way. The JP2C is a close second but maybe a touch buzzier than the Mark III/VII, still a must-have for sure. The Badlanders have been a challenge to like. They are so lacking in bass and gain compared to the Marks and other Rectos, and my Engl Artist, it's a tough pill to swallow, reaching for the bass and gain controls to get a little more, only to find they are maxxed out.

This has been an expensive learning experience for me, I'm trying to seek out pedals that can get that extra little bit of gain and bass to get out of "hard rock" territory with the Badlander. Been asking around for pedal suggestions, but it seems this is an amp that needs to be "spit-roasted" with an OD in front and an EQ in the back, to get there. I just don't know if I want to deal with that hassle. But then, I stand to lose a ton selling a now 5 day old amp, 4 of those days it's been resting safely in it's box, waiting for a new owner. The Badlander has a nice tone to it, but it's so weak. The punch, the oomph, the fullness of having a real amp in a room just isn't there. The lack of gain is easy enough to fix with an OD, but I'm such a cable straight into the amp kind of guy that again buying a special OD and EQ for this thing, when I'm already super happy with my Marks just doesn't seem worthwhile. Hopefully I can find a buyer and not lose my shirt on the deal, we'll see

Oh, FWIW, i did try out 2 other Badlanders, one a 50w, so it's definitely the amp design, not my specific example, they all lack the bass and gain. Oddly, the 50w sounded slightly better than the 100w

 

[bandit2013]

I have seen your other posts on the Badlander. I have read many who dislike the BADs. Probably because they are expecting more of a MWDR type of sound. The Badlander is a bit different than the Dual Rectifier amps. Cold clipper cathode resistor is 15K ohms, not the 39K used with the DR amps. I may agree the low end is not a swamp like the DRs tend to be. The 39K cold clipper resistor does tend to create a sub-harmonic content that will be deeper and darker sounding than the Mark VII, JP2C or even a IIC+ from the 80's. Most that run the Dual Recs are also using OD on the front end to cut back on the low end swamp. I found the cure for the Roadster, I loaded that preamp with all Mesa 6N4-J Beijing 12AX7 tubes I had as left overs from the 1990s. Mesa did not call them the 6N4-J tubes, just 12AX7. the 6N4-J is the Chinese Military grade tube made in Beijing but went out of production about the same time that Mesa changed over to the JJ ECC83s tube. If I ever mention unobtanium tubes, that is what I am referring too. That is usually the case with NOS tubes.

Lets just say this, the Roadster was not useable with a 7 string guitar with stock tubes Mesa 12AX7 (JJ ECC83s). So much mud and sub-harmonic content it was terrible. I recently decided to see if those old Mesa tubes would work, loaded the entire preamp with them. Ruby also had them for sale as the "Beijing Square Foil Getter" tube. Change the power tubes to the STR440 reds. Plugged in the 7-string and was overjoyed on that sound. No flub, mud or anything, it was also quite aggressive too. 6 string guitars also sounded great as I lost all of that sub-harmonic swamp and improved the tightness of the amp. I have not explored the MWDR yet or the Badlander with change in preamp tubes. Understanding where the cathode follow circuits are, you avoid the pitfalls of preamp tube failure. the Bad it is V2 as that is the tone stack driver and V4. MWDR and Roadster have V3 as the tone stack driver. I sort of wonder what would be found with a long plate 12AX7 Mullard or LPS in the phase inverter. Then there is the JAN/Phillips 12AT7 tube that could be used. Mesa did release the preliminary manual that listed the 12AT7 in the phase inverter but they changed it to the 12AX7 for some reason or another before they released production and first builds. It makes me wonder when some of the Youtubers that do product reviews got a version with the 12AT7 or 12AX7 in the phase inverter.

I attached the PDFs first and latest. The 201109 was the first release, the updated version is 201214. I did not check for any updates. I will have to try the Jan/Phillips 12AT7 in the phase inverter just out of curiosity. It will reduce the output some and cut back on upper frequency range. This will make the low end sound more apparent. I doubt I will do this though. Just curious if they actually intended to use the 12AT7. My first BAD is an early build, the SN is less than 100. It came equipped with the 12AX7 phase inverter. I see no reason to experiment with the Bad yet.

 

[bandit2013]

I give up. I am writing a bunch of nothing. Perhaps I had too much coffee this morning.

 

[bandit2013]

Mark VII closer to the Mark III? Interesting. What power tubes are loaded in your Mark III? Is it a DRG, HRG, KRG, or SRG? I would think the KRG, HRG, and SRG to be closer to the JP2C.
Also, I would ask what power tubes are in the JP2C. If it is the STR443, they are just ok. I found them lame actually, not as lame as the STR441 tubes (these actually work good in the Mark V90 and even tried them in the Mark VII, not bad). My power tube preference for the JP2C is the STR415 Sylvania 6L6GC. My Mark III (blue stripe DRG) came stock with those and a pair of big bottle STR416 6CA7 (RCA?). That dates back to 1989 when I bought it new. I wish I never sold it.

Mark VII does not do well with the STR415, I tried them and though it sounded on the boxy side. Even tried the STR448 (TAD red base tubes) and they were similar. Exceptional in the JP2C with a bit more air but very close to the STR415 characteristics. the STR440 tubes did have a slight fizzy character but were far more aggressive than the STR443 tubes Mesa had switched over too. Actually, the STR445 tubes sounded good in the JP2C as well. I have not tried just a pair of the STR415 in the outer sockets and the STR445 in the inner sockets. The STR445 tubes do sound much like the 6CA7 tubes, more so in the Roadster than with the Mark VII. Probably why I like the STR448 in the outer, and the STR445 in the inner sockets. The STR415 were expensive ($500 for the quad, not including shipping or tax) so I will just leave them in the JP2C. That was a fair price for NOS direct from Mesa.

Since the Mark VII is more of a modified DRG having 90W vs the 75W of the Mark III DRG (Simul-class). It will have a different characteristic. I found whatever power tube is used in the extended class A sockets defines the overall characteristic of the amp. Just do not get mixed up with the Mark III as the extended class A sockets are on the outside and the Mark VII has that on the inside pair.

 

[soloistthree]

Lots of great info! Yeah, I'm not all that particular with tubes, I'm in the camp of, if they glow, they're fine but I can take some pics and get back with ya!

My Mark III is a green-stripe, Simul-Class by default, short head w/ EQ and reverb, I've yet to get the acronyms straight on the Marks To me it sounds almost just like the Mark VII in IV mode. The Mark VII just sounds a little clearer, with a touch more tightness, but the III definitely has that old Mark sound, where it's just slightly more "angry" sounding compared to the newer Marks

The JP2C, oddly enough, sounds different than the other 2, it's a little more buzzy, but that can be pretty well EQ'd out, it sounds a little less organic than the other 2 Marks, hard to put ny finger on it really. Less dynamic, and very different to dial in, I have to run the presence WAY up compared to the Mark III/VII, otherwise I get a blanket over the speaker effect. The Badlander sounds a lot like the Mark VII in IIC+ mode with the EQ OFF, and the gain set to 12 o'clock, very thin.

 

[bandit2013]

Interesting. What cabinets are you using?

 

[bandit2013]

I will refrain from the BAD talk here, I was more curious how you like the JP2C.

 

[soloistthree]

Interesting. What cabinets are you using?

Same cabinet for all amps, Randall R212 with V30s in it, I only have the one cabinet; I'm just not a 4x12 guy, too big for me, lol

 

[bandit2013]

Cabinets can make or break the liking of an amp. If it is a ported cab or open back with V30 speakers, it could sound fizzy which is what I discovered with the RA100 combo. Mostly at lower volumes than gig level. I did swap the V30 with cream backs for a short while. Now back to the original V30. Since I ran the combo with the head in a stereo format, wanted both amps to be on similar footing except for the load, 412-8 ohm load with the head and the combo on a horizontal 212 cab at 4 ohms total load.

Not sure if your Randall is 16 ohms or 8 ohms. Sometimes that will make a difference too.
Mesa 112 cab loaded with EVM12L classic, not ideal with the Badlander, Awesome with the JP2C and the Mark VII. Mesa 4x10 open back cab is great with the JP2C, not so epic with the Mark VII. The JP2C has more tone density, thick tone, plenty of midrange and top end. The Mark VII seems to lack in that area, it sounds very similar but not to the same extent. Perhaps too saturated? I changed the power tubes to a lower bias color range which improved the note definition considerably. Went from greens to yellows, STR445 in the center and STR448 in the outer pair. Since the two pairs are running at different bias points it is safe to do that. I am not trying to change the subject here. For a cab selection I found the V212 to be the better option, I prefer that over the horizontal 212 cab.

I actually found the 4x10 works really good with the JP2C. Punchy and quite vocal and not as scooped sounding as the V212. Running both amps at the same time was quite interesting as both cabinets deliver a different spectrum of sound, the blending combination was more than I expected.

Would I move to the 4x10 as a primary choice, no. I prefer the V212 cab in this size category.

Experimentation is sometimes a good thing but can become expensive. At least I can downsize or upsize with the 412 as each cabinet will have different characteristics.

Power tubes for the JP2C do make a huge difference (the following tubes had grey bias color) STR440 are good but can sound a bit fizzy, STR443 are more boomy, less fizz and not as articulate sounding. STR448 has a good balanced tone at volume adjustments compared to the 440 and 443. Bottom end is as close as the STR415, a bit of air in the character, would not call it light though, perhaps more musical is a better term. At gig level they scream like the STR415 tubes. For me it was a hard call which I liked better, STR448 or the STR415. the STR415 was a bucket list thing so I will stick with them until they fade out. The STR448 is the backup and in current production. As for the Mark VII, the STR445 is about as good as it gets. I did not favor the other tubes except for blending of the two 445 and 448. A full quad would be the 445 as the other tubes made the amp sound boxy like the Mark V90, just not as bad or apparent. Yeah, I thought trying the STR445 in the Mark V90 would fix the issue, it made it worse.

 

[soloistthree]

Totally get where you are coming from, but I run every amp through one cab, so I'm literally only commenting on the differences between the amps. Maybe a different cab would give it more bass, but if that were the case my other amps would be completely off the scales with uncontrollable amounts of bass. In other words, with my other 4 amps, bass is not even a question, I usually don't run bass over half on any of them. But the Badlander runs bass flat out and still just doesn't have any oomph compared to the others. Also, it's an 8ohm cab, and paired with the correct 8 Ohm output.

 

[bandit2013]

Sounds like you have a bad BAD. But if you feel it compares to the others you tried, probably not for you. The low end is somewhat more controlled than the other amps you are describing. Also much different preamp circuit design. Tone stack follows the gain stages and is the last in the signal path before the FX loop and phase inverter. Volume controls for both channels reside in the FX recovery stage (return). I tried slaving the BAD out and found I had no channel volume control from the BAD, and ended up with a full tilt signal going into the Roadster. Since I was using the FX loop on the Roadster I had a volume control with that amp.

One must consider the BAD more of a modified Marshall circuit which is what it really is. Same would apply to a Dual Rectifier but the cold clipper uses a 39k to make use of its non-linear diode region to enhance the sub-harmonics. The BAD has the same circuits but 15k ohm cold clipper cathode resistance. A Marshall 2203/2204 JCM800 (?) would be at 10K. V2 is a dc coupled cathode follower tone stack driver. Dual Rec has that in the V3 position. The tube positions have no meaning when it comes to the signal path as it is just a physical location. Since the preamps are based on that common theme, the Mark amps will not be anything like them. The only exception would be the Mark VII in crunch or Crush mode since it pushes the tone stack to follow the high gain stages. Note the tone stack on a Mark amp is plate driven.

Perhaps one could use a GEQ to boost the low end but does not make up for the gain structure. As for the gain character compared to the Roadster or MWDR, it is similar in some ways but the bad has that added gain stage on crush so it is closer to a Mark than a Dual Rec. The Roadster and MWDR are basically coasting the power tubes. You literally have to drive them to gig level to get that grind or saturation. Still with that, you do not get into that Mark lead sound. Probably why most use aids on the front end to coax more distortion and compression into the preamp as well as to cut the sub harmonic content as that can work against you in many ways. I guess in some ways the BAD is more of the Rectifier than it is a Mark. Different amp category. Also, the EL34 tubes seem to offer more bite and grind than the 6L6 options. It gets weaker in character with the STR440 (as a reference). That was also the issue with the Triple Crown, not best suited for 6L6 tubes as you loose something. I did find out what happens with the STR448 (TAD red base 6L6GC) in the gray bias color range, you get back what you lost with the other 6L6GC tubes. I have not tried the STR445 tubes yet. I have the green bias colors from the Mark VII that I am not using (they got too saturated and was losing detail at gig volume). I should try those and see if that works out. Sine I mentioned the TC, wonder how the STR445 will sound in that amp as well. May have a fun weekend after all.

As it seems, sometimes an amp does not meet the needs. My Mark V90 is just junk to me. To many others, they love that amp. I am grateful the Mark VII and JP2C sound nothing like the Mark V90 as that would be an expensive huge disappointment. Both seem to fall within in the same range as the others in gain characteristics. JP2C is probably the best but with power tubes that are not the STR443 or the STR441. That is just my opinion. Some like the JP2C and some hate it as many claim it does not compare to the IIC+ from 1982 era. That may be true in many respects. I just cannot afford what I would be after KRG, HRG, I do not want to finance a mortgage to buy one at $10k over the cost of a new JP2C and that would be a bargain price too. Ouch.

When I got hooked on the RA100 and then added a second one, I lost interest in the Rectifier and Mark amps completely. It took me a while to get back into the groove with the Mark series. Probably why the Badlander fit as it was similar to the RA100 but more aggressive. The Badlander was the bridge to getting back into the Mark series and gave me desire to get the JP2C out of retirement, ditch the STR443 tubes and go for broke with the STR415 ($500 + tax and shipping from Mesa for the full quad, that is actually not bad for NOS tubes of that caliber. I should see if they still have them and get another quad for replacements.)

 

[soloistthree]

Sounds like you have a bad BAD. But if you feel it compares to the others you tried, probably not for you. The low end is somewhat more controlled than the other amps you are describing. Also much different preamp circuit design. Tone stack follows the gain stages and is the last in the signal path before the FX loop and phase inverter. Volume controls for both channels reside in the FX recovery stage (return). I tried slaving the BAD out and found I had no channel volume control from the BAD, and ended up with a full tilt signal going into the Roadster. Since I was using the FX loop on the Roadster I had a volume control with that amp.

One must consider the BAD more of a modified Marshall circuit which is what it really is. Same would apply to a Dual Rectifier but the cold clipper uses a 39k to make use of its non-linear diode region to enhance the sub-harmonics. The BAD has the same circuits but 15k ohm cold clipper cathode resistance. A Marshall 2203/2204 JCM800 (?) would be at 10K. V2 is a dc coupled cathode follower tone stack driver. Dual Rec has that in the V3 position. The tube positions have no meaning when it comes to the signal path as it is just a physical location. Since the preamps are based on that common theme, the Mark amps will not be anything like them. The only exception would be the Mark VII in crunch or Crush mode since it pushes the tone stack to follow the high gain stages. Note the tone stack on a Mark amp is plate driven.

Perhaps one could use a GEQ to boost the low end but does not make up for the gain structure. As for the gain character compared to the Roadster or MWDR, it is similar in some ways but the bad has that added gain stage on crush so it is closer to a Mark than a Dual Rec. The Roadster and MWDR are basically coasting the power tubes. You literally have to drive them to gig level to get that grind or saturation. Still with that, you do not get into that Mark lead sound. Probably why most use aids on the front end to coax more distortion and compression into the preamp as well as to cut the sub harmonic content as that can work against you in many ways. I guess in some ways the BAD is more of the Rectifier than it is a Mark. Different amp category. Also, the EL34 tubes seem to offer more bite and grind than the 6L6 options. It gets weaker in character with the STR440 (as a reference). That was also the issue with the Triple Crown, not best suited for 6L6 tubes as you loose something. I did find out what happens with the STR448 (TAD red base 6L6GC) in the gray bias color range, you get back what you lost with the other 6L6GC tubes. I have not tried the STR445 tubes yet. I have the green bias colors from the Mark VII that I am not using (they got too saturated and was losing detail at gig volume). I should try those and see if that works out. Sine I mentioned the TC, wonder how the STR445 will sound in that amp as well. May have a fun weekend after all.

As it seems, sometimes an amp does not meet the needs. My Mark V90 is just junk to me. To many others, they love that amp. I am grateful the Mark VII and JP2C sound nothing like the Mark V90 as that would be an expensive huge disappointment. Both seem to fall within in the same range as the others in gain characteristics. JP2C is probably the best but with power tubes that are not the STR443 or the STR441. That is just my opinion. Some like the JP2C and some hate it as many claim it does not compare to the IIC+ from 1982 era. That may be true in many respects. I just cannot afford what I would be after KRG, HRG, I do not want to finance a mortgage to buy one at $10k over the cost of a new JP2C and that would be a bargain price too. Ouch.

When I got hooked on the RA100 and then added a second one, I lost interest in the Rectifier and Mark amps completely. It took me a while to get back into the groove with the Mark series. Probably why the Badlander fit as it was similar to the RA100 but more aggressive. The Badlander was the bridge to getting back into the Mark series and gave me desire to get the JP2C out of retirement, ditch the STR443 tubes and go for broke with the STR415 ($500 + tax and shipping from Mesa for the full quad, that is actually not bad for NOS tubes of that caliber. I should see if they still have them and get another quad for replacements.)

Could be, but I've owned 2 Badlanders, and now, have played 3 total. They all sound the same to me, very, very little bass, and gain that's just not enough for smooth leads, it has that dry, dead feeling where the lack of gain leads to a lack of sustain. It's close though, as I always say another 15-20% bump in gain and bass and it would be a keeper, but then, in my case it's almost like, why? My Mark 3, JP2C, Mark 7, and my ENGL Artist all sound fantastic with no help at all The Badlander was just an expensive learning lesson. If it were my only amp, I'd work with it for sure as it doesn't need much to get there but as is, it just doesn't work well for me