Moving from Marshall to Mesa, need a combo!

[Dave Morgan]

There have been a lot of threads on this I know, but just after some fresh insight

Right now I play a Jackson SL2H w/ EMG 81 & 60 through a Marshall DSL100 head + 1960A 4x12 cab. I bought this amp when I was getting into the tube world and I didn't understand that you really have to push them loud to get a decent tone out of it - I also bought it because I couldn't afford a Mesa at the time I don't gig at the moment, but it's a pain in the *** moving it around.

Sooooo... I thought hey, lets look at the Mesa line up and see if there's anything I can actually afford (here in New Zealand, music equipment and Mesa stuff in particular is so overpriced).

I'm after a Mesa because they sound so skull-crushingly awesome, and that's what my Marshall can't deliver - it can get heavy, but not like a Recto, ya know. I play A LOT of Metallica, so I was looking at the Mark series, but getting one in this country would be almost impossible, and I kinda like the modern sounds that you can get from a Rectifier.

So I'm interested in the Rectoverb... 50W and one 12" speaker, sounds like it would suit playing at home ok, and whenever I'll be gigging again it should be loud enough for that. Being a combo too it would be easier to lug around.

I contacted the local guitar store and found out that it would cost me $3499NZ which would be sweet. I'd sell my DSL100 and wouldn't have to spend too much more to get it. The guy I was talking to suggested I look at the Roadster combo, but that's another $1200NZ... I really can't spend that much on an amp at the moment, and I really don't need all the channels that the Roadster has (although I like its capability to switch between 50/100W).

When I was browsing YouTube for sound clips I came across this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRijO1hz8a8 -when the dude turned on the distortion, it sounded bloody awesome for such a small amp - this is the tone I am after. There seems to be heaps of low end and a massive crunch. Guess it's just the 6L6's? I also read something about the rectifier being solid state or something, does this affect tone compared with a tube one? Not too familiar with the Mesa stuff.

****, sorry for the huge post I just wanna make sure I make the right decision because chances are I'll not have the opportunity to try it out before I order one.

Cheers :twisted:

 

[clutch71]

First of Dave, Welcome to the Boogie Board! I've owned a 5150 II Combo, Rectoverb combo, 2ch Dual Rec and currently own a DSL50. Combo's are not always easier to lug around. The ROV for example weighs 70lbs and the Roadster weighs 98lbs.

The ROV has very similar charactheristics to the Dual Rec with fewer options. The reverb is marginal at best so I personally prefer the Single Rectifier head and 2x12 recto cab. The loop is parallel and not serial and I had a hard time getting them to be pedal friendly in the loop.

The ROV is plenty loud and will be fine in a gig situation. Personally, I always paired it with a 2x12 to add a little more bass that the open back of the combo seemed to lack. All amps are different but mine sounded OK at bedroom levels as well.

It's going to have a "looser" feel than your DSL even at cranked tones. I recommend a good OD out front. I use a Ibanez TS808 RI with the gain dialed out of the pedal, tone about noon, and the level set to parity. In my Dual I ran EL34's and while I like 6L6's, I always seem to go back to EL's. They seem to add a little more mid range and tighten up the sound even further.

The ROV only offers ss rectification just like your DSL. The only way I really noticed the difference between ss and tube rectification was at cranked tones and is more glass to replace eventually. SHouldn't really be a selling point.

Either way I recommend that you tinker with the amp and really learn how to dial it. Then start with OD's and different cabs.

BTW - the youtube link didn't work. Here's one of my ROV at cranked tones with no OD fout front 6L6's...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LknU71ADqYE

Here's a dual with no OD out front w/ 6L6's. You can see the ROV and 2x12 sitting next to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOVQgGDox_8

Here's one with a DR, OD out front, EL34's on tube rectification (this is a 4x12 stacked on top of a 2x12 BTW)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32YOO9HvFOY

Not the best audio quality or playing but you get an idea of how heavy they can be with or without an OD
Good Luck[/url]

 

[Dave Morgan]

thanks 8)

**** the loop thing could be a letdown, I usually run my chorus and delay through the loop on the DSL.

That's one thing I forgot to ask - how does a 1x12 combo compare in sound to a 2x12 or 4x12? I'm kinda worried about the bigger cabs as I won't even need to be shifting so much sound with all those speakers, although I still want that bass to be there.

About the loose feeling, that's exactly what I want. I'm not really into the punchy tight thing that my DSL does, I really like the loose sort of feel that you can get (or from what I've heard people play anyway). An EQ pedal would probably work too if I wanted to tighten it up a bit?

Ah didn't realise the DSL had SS rectification. Have been doing a bit of reading on this and people seem to prefer the SS bit, not as much to go wrong etc. This is a lot different from total solid state right? My last Marshall combo was solid state and sounds horrible compared to the DSL.

Thanks for those links, try that one in the first post again, I think I got the link working.

Appreciate the info man, thanks

 

[ANIMATED SUSPENSION]

thanks 8)

**** the loop thing could be a letdown, I usually run my chorus and delay through the loop on the DSL.

That's one thing I forgot to ask - how does a 1x12 combo compare in sound to a 2x12 or 4x12? I'm kinda worried about the bigger cabs as I won't even need to be shifting so much sound with all those speakers, although I still want that bass to be there.

About the loose feeling, that's exactly what I want. I'm not really into the punchy tight thing that my DSL does, I really like the loose sort of feel that you can get (or from what I've heard people play anyway). An EQ pedal would probably work too if I wanted to tighten it up a bit?

Ah didn't realise the DSL had SS rectification. Have been doing a bit of reading on this and people seem to prefer the SS bit, not as much to go wrong etc. This is a lot different from total solid state right? My last Marshall combo was solid state and sounds horrible compared to the DSL.

Thanks for those links, try that one in the first post again, I think I got the link working.

Appreciate the info man, thanks

ss = solid state

As in the rectification, not the amplification !!

 

[Dave Morgan]

Well if no one else has anything bad to say about the Rectoverb I might go for it :twisted:

 

[coppa]

I have a single rec head, and I enjoy it quite a bit. You really have to like the mesa voicing of the red channel as nothing sounds like it,but thats pretty much all it does.

The clean and pushed modes are very versatile. They can behave a lot more like a vintage amp with tons of touch response.

I have also tried a friend's marshall tsl100 and I believe that with the output at about noon the clean and pushed modes can do a lot of what the marshall does and then some :twisted:

pretty different tonestacks compared to your marshall. whatever you do do not scoop the mids!.

 

[Dave Morgan]

Yeah mate, not into the mid scooping at all 8) I just love that Mesa sound you know, the recto sound it's unmistakeable. The Marshall is just kinda... yeah :? It suits a lot of people but not for the style of music I play.

 

[boogietone]

Or learn how to dial in a Recto and you'll forget all about Marshall. :wink:

 

[Elpelotero]

thanks 8)

**** the loop thing could be a letdown, I usually run my chorus and delay through the loop on the DSL.

That's one thing I forgot to ask - how does a 1x12 combo compare in sound to a 2x12 or 4x12? I'm kinda worried about the bigger cabs as I won't even need to be shifting so much sound with all those speakers, although I still want that bass to be there.

About the loose feeling, that's exactly what I want. I'm not really into the punchy tight thing that my DSL does, I really like the loose sort of feel that you can get (or from what I've heard people play anyway). An EQ pedal would probably work too if I wanted to tighten it up a bit?

Ah didn't realise the DSL had SS rectification. Have been doing a bit of reading on this and people seem to prefer the SS bit, not as much to go wrong etc. This is a lot different from total solid state right? My last Marshall combo was solid state and sounds horrible compared to the DSL.

Thanks for those links, try that one in the first post again, I think I got the link working.

Appreciate the info man, thanks

If I can throw in my 2 cents before you plunk down the $$...

If you play a lot of Metallica, there's no substitute--you owe it to yourself to get a Mark series (C+, 3, or 4). The Rectifier may have the Mesa sound, but not the Mark midrange, tightness, sweetness, and bite. They are different animals. If you like to play solos, that's another negative for the rectifier. It doesn't do solos well at all because it lacks a lot of upper mids, which is where the sweetness is.

A Parallel loop should be able to run chorus and delay just fine...I believe they are "time-based" effects, no? You can check on google to be sure.

A 1x12 combo will still have bass and chunk, especially when you play loud. A 4x12 can break a window, but a 1x12 can still give chunk.

Solid State is simply a method of converting voltage. It converts quicker, so your tone is tighter. Vacuum tubes convert slower, and give more sag and vintage creaminess.

If you go with the rectifier and wish to tighten it up, invest in an overdrive pedal first. Namely, the Maxon OD808. It will cut lows and add mids to give you a tighter tone. However, this will not replicate the Mark sound.


I'm not bashing rectos, I love them! But just be sure you know what you're going into. It's hard to find Mesas in your neighborhood!

 

[coppa]

The red channel may not be able to get the usual lead sounds the most people expect but the green channel on pushed or clean can be dialed in to sound nothing like recto(still has the sick bass of a recto).
You do need to crank the output to 50% get the level of gain most people like for solos or use a pedal.

If your after the recto red channel sound it is the only amp voiced that way, but the green channel has a few tricks. The voicing is much less aggressive meaning you can really change up the eq quite a bit on the green channel. It can sound brutal or just a little break up or even some very clean sounds. the guitar knobs and pickup are a huge on this channel. everything is so responsive. Im assuming and eq in the loop and a simple series mod will expand that pallete even more.

The red is more like dialing in each guitar to give you the best version of the recto red channel sound for that particular guitar.

 

[Dave Morgan]

thanks 8)

**** the loop thing could be a letdown, I usually run my chorus and delay through the loop on the DSL.

That's one thing I forgot to ask - how does a 1x12 combo compare in sound to a 2x12 or 4x12? I'm kinda worried about the bigger cabs as I won't even need to be shifting so much sound with all those speakers, although I still want that bass to be there.

About the loose feeling, that's exactly what I want. I'm not really into the punchy tight thing that my DSL does, I really like the loose sort of feel that you can get (or from what I've heard people play anyway). An EQ pedal would probably work too if I wanted to tighten it up a bit?

Ah didn't realise the DSL had SS rectification. Have been doing a bit of reading on this and people seem to prefer the SS bit, not as much to go wrong etc. This is a lot different from total solid state right? My last Marshall combo was solid state and sounds horrible compared to the DSL.

Thanks for those links, try that one in the first post again, I think I got the link working.

Appreciate the info man, thanks

If I can throw in my 2 cents before you plunk down the $$...

If you play a lot of Metallica, there's no substitute--you owe it to yourself to get a Mark series (C+, 3, or 4). The Rectifier may have the Mesa sound, but not the Mark midrange, tightness, sweetness, and bite. They are different animals. If you like to play solos, that's another negative for the rectifier. It doesn't do solos well at all because it lacks a lot of upper mids, which is where the sweetness is.

A Parallel loop should be able to run chorus and delay just fine...I believe they are "time-based" effects, no? You can check on google to be sure.

A 1x12 combo will still have bass and chunk, especially when you play loud. A 4x12 can break a window, but a 1x12 can still give chunk.

Solid State is simply a method of converting voltage. It converts quicker, so your tone is tighter. Vacuum tubes convert slower, and give more sag and vintage creaminess.

If you go with the rectifier and wish to tighten it up, invest in an overdrive pedal first. Namely, the Maxon OD808. It will cut lows and add mids to give you a tighter tone. However, this will not replicate the Mark sound.


I'm not bashing rectos, I love them! But just be sure you know what you're going into. It's hard to find Mesas in your neighborhood!

Excellent post man, thanks heaps.

While I play a tonne of Metallica, I prefer the modern tone they use to the tone they had on the black album and the ones before that. Um, think S&M? Were they using Rectos around that time?

Btw which of the Mark series can you still buy (ie. that are still in production).

 

[clutch71]

None of the Mark Series mentioned by Elpelotero is in production. The Mark V is a rumor at this point. The Mark IV is going to be hard to try out first. I've been trying for over a year to play one and travel all over the US.

The Rectoverb will get you close to the Black album forward type sound. Metallica is notrious for using multiple amps and it's really hard to say exactly what they use on any given album or how they were engineered to create that tone. James is currently using (based on photos provided on this site) a 2 VHT 4's and a sh!t load of triaxis. Kurt....who knows but he did release a signature line with Randall this year.

Find the amp the fits your ear and you'll be fine.

 

[Elpelotero]

thanks 8)

**** the loop thing could be a letdown, I usually run my chorus and delay through the loop on the DSL.

That's one thing I forgot to ask - how does a 1x12 combo compare in sound to a 2x12 or 4x12? I'm kinda worried about the bigger cabs as I won't even need to be shifting so much sound with all those speakers, although I still want that bass to be there.

About the loose feeling, that's exactly what I want. I'm not really into the punchy tight thing that my DSL does, I really like the loose sort of feel that you can get (or from what I've heard people play anyway). An EQ pedal would probably work too if I wanted to tighten it up a bit?

Ah didn't realise the DSL had SS rectification. Have been doing a bit of reading on this and people seem to prefer the SS bit, not as much to go wrong etc. This is a lot different from total solid state right? My last Marshall combo was solid state and sounds horrible compared to the DSL.

Thanks for those links, try that one in the first post again, I think I got the link working.

Appreciate the info man, thanks

If I can throw in my 2 cents before you plunk down the $$...

If you play a lot of Metallica, there's no substitute--you owe it to yourself to get a Mark series (C+, 3, or 4). The Rectifier may have the Mesa sound, but not the Mark midrange, tightness, sweetness, and bite. They are different animals. If you like to play solos, that's another negative for the rectifier. It doesn't do solos well at all because it lacks a lot of upper mids, which is where the sweetness is.

A Parallel loop should be able to run chorus and delay just fine...I believe they are "time-based" effects, no? You can check on google to be sure.

A 1x12 combo will still have bass and chunk, especially when you play loud. A 4x12 can break a window, but a 1x12 can still give chunk.

Solid State is simply a method of converting voltage. It converts quicker, so your tone is tighter. Vacuum tubes convert slower, and give more sag and vintage creaminess.

If you go with the rectifier and wish to tighten it up, invest in an overdrive pedal first. Namely, the Maxon OD808. It will cut lows and add mids to give you a tighter tone. However, this will not replicate the Mark sound.


I'm not bashing rectos, I love them! But just be sure you know what you're going into. It's hard to find Mesas in your neighborhood!

Excellent post man, thanks heaps.

While I play a tonne of Metallica, I prefer the modern tone they use to the tone they had on the black album and the ones before that. Um, think S&M? Were they using Rectos around that time?

Btw which of the Mark series can you still buy (ie. that are still in production).

S&M is a Triaxis. I can hear the Yellow C+ mode all over the place on that album. I can especially hear it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KtF7ql3FJc

 

[Dave Morgan]

That's something that I was unsure about.. Triaxis. A lot of people say it's awesome but never heard of it up until a couple of months ago, it's like a rack amp or something? I'll take a look at the Boogie site.

I bet it's bloody expensive...

Of course I don't want to clone their own tone or anything, I just want that particular sound, like on S&M as a starting point, I love it :twisted:

 

[Dave Morgan]

This is the killer tone I'm after, the dirty demo about half way thru http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDKZcxuOUuw&feature=related

-edit: and I just saw the prices of the Triaxis and 2:90...