Mark V: IIC+ Tone Characteristics Question/Discussion

[BrownieD2W]

I have had my Mark V for a little over a year and a half now, but there is just one sound, or characteristic of the sound that I have still been trying to nail. and I was hoping you guys could maybe help me with it.

From different clips, videos, or recordings of IIC+'s I have heard, depending on the setup and settings of the user, IIC+'s seem to get this gritty, tight as hell, grinding sound to them, so tight, grinding, and articulate that the tone sounds like its ripping right out of the speakers.

That's the sound I keep looking for with my Mark V. At times I feel like I am getting close, but I'm to trebly, or I'll start to get close but at the loss of some depth or whatever it is, but I can't seem to nail that sound.

Now I don't know if that is really the "Holy Grail" trademark Characteristic that makes the IIC+'s so treasured, if it is I can understand, and will leave it at that, but I still like to try and get as good or close as I can with what I have.

So that's really it, I would just like to discuss this and maybe get some help on getting that sound. My idea is to try and get the tone as Tight and Articulate as possible, and then tweak from there to taste, so if anyone can help me with that I will greatly appreciate it. Any feedback or advice is welcome, thanks in advance.

P.S: If you need any relevant info on my setup just let me know.

 

[Bullen]

What are your settings? Head or combo? If head, what kind of cab/speakers are you using?

Keep in mind that the IIC+ mode on the V is based on the non eq equipped C+, with the smaller coupling cap for a tighter, faster response. So if you are comparing it to a eq equipped IIC+, the V will lack lowend girth.

Also, there is some debate wheather the C+ mode is close or not to the real thing.

I don´t have a IIC+ to compare to so I stay out of that debate. But I like the IIC+ mode for what it is.

My settings on my V in IIC+ mode is something like this:

Gain: 2-3 (o clock)
Tre: 1-2
Mid: 11-12
Bass: 10
Pres: 9-11 (depending on guitar and cab and if I dial it in for a crunch or lead sound. I set it lower for leads, higher for crunch).
Bright on
Pentode for rhythm crunch and Triode for leads.
90 W

Eq set to sliders with a offset V shape.

80 - just below top line
240 - just above mid line
750 - just above low line (or halfway between mid and low line. I play around with this one a lot. Sometimes the eq is even turned off = DON`T SCOOP THE MIDS TOO MUCH!!!!)
2200 - same as 240
6600 - just slightly higher than the 2200

Sometimes I use the eq preset at about 11 o clock. Cool Petrucci-esque tone. This might require a slightly higher bass knob setting since the preset eq is slightly leaner in that area. But not too much or it will get flubby.

And volume works wonders as does the loop bypass setting (I always use this setting if I´m not using fx in the loop. Sounds cleaner and the amp gets chunkier).

Good luck!

 

[BrownieD2W]

What are your settings? Head or combo? If head, what kind of cab/speakers are you using?

Keep in mind that the IIC+ mode on the V is based on the non eq equipped C+, with the smaller coupling cap for a tighter, faster response. So if you are comparing it to a eq equipped IIC+, the V will lack lowend girth.

Also, there is some debate wheather the C+ mode is close or not to the real thing.

I don´t have a IIC+ to compare to so I stay out of that debate. But I like the IIC+ mode for what it is.

My settings on my V in IIC+ mode is something like this:

Gain: 2-3 (o clock)
Tre: 1-2
Mid: 11-12
Bass: 10
Pres: 9-11 (depending on guitar and cab and if I dial it in for a crunch or lead sound. I set it lower for leads, higher for crunch).
Bright on
Pentode for rhythm crunch and Triode for leads.
90 W

Eq set to sliders with a offset V shape.

80 - just below top line
240 - just above mid line
750 - just above low line (or halfway between mid and low line. I play around with this one a lot. Sometimes the eq is even turned off = DON`T SCOOP THE MIDS TOO MUCH!!!!)
2200 - same as 240
6600 - just slightly higher than the 2200

Sometimes I use the eq preset at about 11 o clock. Cool Petrucci-esque tone. This might require a slightly higher bass knob setting since the preset eq is slightly leaner in that area. But not too much or it will get flubby.

And volume works wonders as does the loop bypass setting (I always use this setting if I´m not using fx in the loop. Sounds cleaner and the amp gets chunkier).

Good luck!

Thank very much for your reply.

As far as my gear goes, my Marv V is a combo, but I am working on getting a cab sometime in the near future. I have two guitars equipped with EMG's (81,60) (81,85), and I have a Dave Mustaine VMNT with Dave's Sig Pickups. I also have a 10 band Graphic EQ and a Presonus EQ3B in the loop. I have been keeping the front end clean, no pedals before the amp, but I do have a standard Tubescreamer.

Your settings are actually pretty much exactly what I have been keeping mine at the last few months. On the EQ I have been keeping the 6600 just a bit higher though.

I also of course realize that the IIC+ mode is based on the Non-EQ IIC+. Realizing that I am not such a purist that I wouldn't play in the other modes if it meant that I could reproduce a more accurate tone.

Like I said my goal is basically to get the tone as tight as possible and getting that kind of ripping sound, and then tweak from there to taste. So if getting there involves EQing or anything like that I am willing to give it a shot.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I tried making a recording to see if your version of "mid grind" was the same as mine, but I kept overloading the mic on my laptop unless I turned down to the point where the mid grind I was trying to show off died off.

Anyway... I think some of that "mid grind/ripping out the speaker" sound is a characteristic of the speaker, and - in my opinion - V30s have it in spades while C90s don't.

Explorer (EMG 60/81) -> Mark V -> Recto 4x12 (slant)

Mark IIC+ mode, Pentode, Bright On
Treble, around 10:30 (pointing at the red LED)
Mids, around 10:00 (pointing at the T in Bright)
Bass, around 11:30 (pointing at the B in Bass)
Gain, around 2:00
Master, to taste
Presence, around 9:30 (or to taste)

I used to run the treble up higher and the gain lower but I had an issue with too much sizzle. Bringing down the treble and presence tamed the top end and brought out a stronger midrange. The bass I tweak from time to time... it's a tightness vs thickness thing, and sometimes it needs rebalancing.

 

[BrownieD2W]

Anyway... I think some of that "mid grind/ripping out the speaker" sound is a characteristic of the speaker, and - in my opinion - V30s have it in spades while C90s don't.

It could be exactly that, I hope to try out my Mark V with a cab with V30's within the next week, but I wont be able to buy it, but hopefully that will help me narrow down that sound and maybe that is really the missing ingredient that I have been lacking.

Thank you very much for your reply, and thanks for your settings as well.

 

[RedKlouD72]

At FIRST, when I got this Amp, I had to rush to find some good settings to play with my band... I was Allll about Mark IV setting I guess that was just kind of what I was looking for.

but my lawd,,, I think the IIC+ is actually the better selection now.

It just seems more manageable. More distinguished notes when playing chords especially. the treb,mid,bass, and EQs have a more audible effect on it. Dude, I even got some Djent type sounds out of the IIC+ selection.

IIC+ for the win. the tightness is there. the heaviness is there. just keep working with it. I'll try to develop a really cool setting that is different than yours.. mind you I play with the 4x12 recto cab.(The one with the slant on the top half)

 

[RedKlouD72]

OK here goes nothin. Hope this actually translate well to the room in which you play, and the guitar that u use.

Mark IIC+ !!!

Reverb off (I'm actually using my own reverb pedal, very light verb tho)
TRIODE setting
FX Loop Active. Send level is pointing at the "-" sign.

ok enough of the back of the amp.

Output 10:00
Variac Power

90Watts
EQ ON: preset knob; pointing just a little past the H in DEPTH basically 1:00

Treble 1:45 ish. just misses pointing at the B in BRIGHT
MID 11:00
Bass 10:00
Bright switch: ON!!

Gain 1:30
Master 2:00
Presence points just a hair below 9:00

 

[RedKlouD72]

Ah, I misread this thread... I accidentally though you said yours were just about the same as
ScreamingDaisy's so I posted because mine were dif then his.... but not so dif than yours.

Let's see if I can whip something else up.

The first bunch is the same
Mark IIC+ !!!

Reverb off (I'm actually using my own reverb pedal, very light verb tho)
TRIODE setting
FX Loop Active. Send level is pointing at the "-" sign.

ok enough of the back of the amp.

Output 10:00
Variac Power

90Watts
EQ ON: sliders:
80HZ- Half way between top and middle 240AND750 - a tad higher than halfway between middle and bottom. 2200HZ- the bottom of the lider skims the middle line (so its a tad above the middle) 6600HZ top of slider skims the top line (so its a tad below top line

Treble 1:45 ish. just misses pointing at the B in BRIGHT
MID 10:30 points at T in BRIGHT
Bass 10:00
Bright switch: OFF!! (normal)

Gain 1:45ish
Master 3:00
Presence 9:00


I hope that doesnt sound like static to you

 

[Fishbookmark]

I don't have the Mark V but I do have a C+ head that I've owned since I bought it new through the mail directly from Mesa. At that time the C+ was not the holy grail of boogies it was just the Mark II. No a's, b's or c's marketed to the consumer; No internet demos not even a store to try the thing out. But, boogies were bad-***. Santana played one, Garcia played one, my local guitar hero played one.

I have also owned some other boogies over the years but they are all gone. I was looking for my C+ sound in a combo and I couldn't get it. Which brings me to the problem with trying to get a C+ sound out of another Boogie is, which C+ sound? My current C+ sound approximates Jerry esq cleans and Santana esq lead tones (For Clapton/Blues tones I use other amps). The C+ does these tones superbly to my ear. But it also sounds completely different with each speaker and cab I match it with. I also don't try for any of the sounds it became famous for, yet it's the only amp that has stayed with me for my entire adult life and when I'm through with the others I always come back to it.

I'm interested in getting a Mark V. I'd love a Boogie with variable power and separate eq for each channel and I may get one, but I know that no matter how they market it, It's going to sound like a V not a C+.