Mark 3 Saga

[gjohung]

Here is my MK3 update.

Need to be kind of objective. I know you mean well, but need to address this issues.

1) It was so strange that 2 of my effect went dead, I believe I used outlet coming from back of the MK3... I took home the pedal and it was ok..
2) I did have some buzz and ground noise issue during practice - but yesterday the buzz was so bad that I couldn't use any of the drive channels. using an OD pedal helped. but what is the point of using pedal OD when you have great tube OD from Mk 3.
3) I just couldn't get clean tone - is it the speaker?? or the setting.. as you know I have only 5 minutes before the service and I just couldn't figure it out..

Here are my .... so called observation so far.
1) Amp was not used regularly and need time to break in?? Or was not maintainanced properly. I guess tube amp needs TLC.
2) The tube either need to be retuned or replaced. It could be the source of the buzz.
here is the FAQ that I found

http://www.mesaboogie.com/US/Dealers/FAQs/faqs.html

3) This was kind of Franken Boogie...I know it would be challenge for a person that likes to tweek and customize.. this was little overwelm and bit of challenge for me.. I just wanted to plug and play with minimal set up as i don't do this professionally.

4) I know you gave me a good deal and good condition to pay in installments - if I be little frank street price for Mint Mk 3 combo is as low as $700. I am assuming that those are "ready to play' conditions - with original speakers. Well there is that rack that i have seen on the web for $50. I had to buy foot pedal that matches to polarity, a speaker cable - didn;t want to solder in case you need to replace/swap speakers. took me bit of effort to find the 4 screws to hold the chassis.. I may need to order the originals from mesa, because all home depot or lowes have is silver screws.. I colored the top with a black magic marker. Also, it should have big washer.

May be I am just frustrated because after all the work that I did with limited knowledge that I have regarding the amp, i didn't have good experience yesterday.

_____________________________________

I am gonna do this..
1) I am going to church on Tuesday night and try to test the tubes. I am not sure if Fender Deluxe Rev uses same tube but I might use that as a replacement or test to see if bad tube is causing the buzz/hum.
2) I have 2 praise gigs coming up this week (Friday Cell Celebration - Sunday Service) I need to resolve this issue ASAP.. I might just use my old set up just to play it safe.
3) If all fails and if it takes too much time.. Can I "borrow" your Maverick just for this week or 2. At this time I just need an amp that is quiet. and something that audio guy gives me the stink eye..

________

I just read that Fender DRRI uses 6V6 and MK 3 uses 6L6. - now... does replacing 2 of the 4 power amp to EL34 make it a simil-class?? and if so which 2 ....??? it does use 4 12ax..

I don't know if this is the evil one try to disrupt the effort to praise God.. I need to triumph..

Part 2.

Me and this MK 3 does not get along too good..

I turned it on and made a fizzz.. noise and puff:.. dead..

it blew a huse..

I don't know if it is just fuse blow or something else...
and I didn't have extra fuse...they say fuse usually blows when there is bad power tube..

I am using Fender DRRI tonight...

Just keeping you posted..

Part 3

Went to guitar center...

All they sell is Grove Tubes..

Even the sales guy said don't put Grove Tube in Boogie..

I went all the way to Hollywood .. to the Mesa Boogie Store.. OMG.. I should hang around in the store alot..

One of the sales guy had a SRV Strat that he wanted to sell $1200 ... it was nice.. I played for 30 minutes.. before I even menttoned that I needed Tubes

So the blown tube at Pre-Amp was the V1.. and it had Groove Tube in it... They say factory will never put a Groove Tube in Mesa...it was an after job,,, He recommended.. if it is an old one.. replace all the 12AX7s.. because that might be the cause of hum... I bought 2 ...they cast $17.99

and 2 6L6... he does not recommend puting EL34 in the power stage. red stripe should accept but EL34s blow up more easily than 6L6s.. Although I really has one blown 6L6.. they only sell 6L6 as pair..pre-bias matched... $42.00 not bad..

I put the new 6L6 on the outer pair for 60W mode and put the old pair inside ,for 100W..

and 2 new 12AX7s on V1 & V2..

This thing does have clean tone.. nice... really shines with new tube...

Took until 2AM in the morning but I think I got it now..

This is one killer amp.. tone to die for...

on all modes.. crunch is good..

the lead channel is really good.. - little muddy.. I might have to find out what pre-tube is the lead channel and see if I can replace new tube for it.

Here is the what they say... the Power Tube should be replaced at least once a year.. pre-amp tube need not to be replaced unless it is blown... but preamp can be the cause of hum and noise "microphonics"

With my G-Major in the FX loop..

this is the perfect set up

____________

Current Issue.

I still have loud hum when I kick in the Lead Channel.. it probably is unusable during a gig....

Will replacing all 12AX7 - I already replaced 2... eliminate it.. I did test each tube... with the new tube in all spot..

What else can I do>

 

[gjohung]

 

[fdesalvo]

Brother, save yourself some trouble- put a full set of new tubes in that thing.

 

[gjohung]

Should I replace all tubes??

I did test each one by swappoing out.. and they were all good...

 

[fishyfishfish]

If the Mesa store gave it a once over it should be good to go. As for the loud hum, might be the guitar or standing to close to the amp or noisy pre amp tube. I use my Mark III for our worship services as well, it just takes a while to get all the settings down to manage noise from high gain settings, but it can be done.

 

[gjohung]

It is hard to control the level between the clean and the crunch (rhythm 2)

R2 is too loud.

I think I have better control over the lead channel for balancing between clean and dirty.

wonder how is everyone else dealing with this issue..

 

[dodger916]

It is hard to control the level between the clean and the crunch (rhythm 2)

R2 is too loud.

I think I have better control over the lead channel for balancing between clean and dirty.

wonder how is everyone else dealing with this issue..

I believe there is an R2 volume mod that balances the volume. Check this thread: http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=43306

 

[gjohung]

Thanks.. is this user performed mod or do I need to take it to a mod specialist and do it..

 

[Drewtone]

Thanks.. is this user performed mod or do I need to take it to a mod specialist and do it..

I'd recommend that mod if you want to use R2 in conjunction with the other channels... I'd have a pro do it, though it doesn't look like too intricate of an operation.

For the buzz, V3 I believe is the preamp tube that is the final gain stage... I'd definitely try that out with a new tube... $15-$20. Try Tung Sol reissue, JJ, or Mesa Boogie to taste. Also, V5 (you Phase Inverter)... wouldn't hurt to put a fresh tube in this.

With respect to the 6L6 vs. EL34, does the amp say Simu-Class on the back panel at the switch (Class A/SimuClass)? Usually for these amps, they recommend 34's over 6L6's in the outer sockets.

As you probably know by now, this is not a plug and play amp, as I've discovered lo these 21 years. However, it's full of brilliant tone for the discovering.

 

[gjohung]

I have heard that later version of MK 3 had corrected R1 R2 volume issue. However contrary to other posting and Harmony Central postings.. I have the opposite issue of R2 louder than R1. common issue has been the other way round.. R1 is louder than R2.

Simple solution would be just using R1 and Lead Channel and using EQ or OD Pedal to boost during solos.. I believe that is what lot of people are doing. I was surprised to find that lot of Boogie users still rely on OD or Dist pedals I thought tube OD/distortion will resolve that issue.

I have my share of arsenal of pedals. I wanted a simple set up. Tonight is my first rehearsal to test my MK3.

My old set up was: between... don't say I am sac religious - a Line 6 POD XT into Tech 21 TM60 - into the FX return.. It worked quite well. but like any modeling set up I had my love/hate relationship. One day it will sound good. and bad..

or: Fender DRRI set up...due to lack of FX loop I needed all front end pedals. and it was getting out of hand,
EB Vol-Vox wah-OCD-BBPlus-Boss Chorus- DIgi Delay etc....and other day the Peal Pad's power supply went freaking out on me.. juice in all pedals light up but no sound.

I had a TC-GMajor collecting dust ...I pulled it out..and made a rather slightly complicated set up.. for TM60. Using a channel switcher to access clean and dirty. and a T21 Midi Mouse to change patches on GMai and a Boss FS Switch for tap tempo.. while keeping all my front end pedals..

My new Mesa Setup. is straight into. MK3.. FX Loop GMaj - use Boss FS for FX on off.. (MK does not have FX on off) I cannot get a true by pass on this.. GM is pretty transparent.. and 2 FS switch for R2 and Lead selection.. it is much much simple set up. with having access to all the FX and tone. However, I am taking my OCD to put it between the Guitar.

I am not completely new to Mesa. I did own a MK2 years ago... even back then for live use I ended up using OD pedals....and keeping Mesa clean.

Thanks all..

-------------

Guitar:
PRS Custom 22 Bird
Fender Strat EJ Model
Fender Strat MIJ CAR
Fender Tele 52 Reissue. 4 way mod, reverse plate
Epi Casino. MIK(Korea)
Variax 300
Brian Moore iGuitar. 13 pin Piezo, Seymore HSH
Martin D-17 Acoustic

Amp:
Mesa Boogie Mk3 Red Stripe
Fender 65 DRRI
Line 6 Flextone 3
Crate 5W tube
Tech 21 TM 60

Pedals/FX
OCD
BB Plus
Boss MZ
Ibanez TS-9 (Analogman mod)
Boss Chorus
Boss Acoustic Sim
Boss NS (noise suppressor)
MXR Envelope
Vox Wah
EB Vol
Dunlop Wah
TC Elec G-Major
Rocktron Hush
BBE Sonic Max
Furman Power cond.

etc....

 

[gjohung]

The back does not say Simul Class just 100/60..

also.. I see one tube second one from left does not light up or dimmed compared to other 3....um,,,

 

[Drewtone]

The back does not say Simul Class just 100/60..

also.. I see one tube second one from left does not light up or dimmed compared to other 3....um,,,

I don't think that's true Simu Class, so the recommendation on 6L6's across the board makes sense... you'll need them to run @ 100w.

I'd DEFINITELY go with new tubes across the board.

Once you have it set up, I'd be interested to hear your clean v. clean comparison with your Fender amp.

NICE gear collection, btw...

 

[dodger916]

The back does not say Simul Class just 100/60..

also.. I see one tube second one from left does not light up or dimmed compared to other 3....um,,,

If you want to be sure, check the output transformer. It's the big one near the speaker jacks. A simul tranny will have "Simul-class" stamped into the casing facing the bottom of the amp.

 

[gjohung]

Thank you. I will take a look at it.

Now, what is the technical definition of Simu Class and why is that so different,

ghj

 

[dodger916]

Here's my un-technical description. Simply put, there are two sets of tubes, each set running in a different operating "class" simultaneously. The inner tubes run in Class A/B, with the outer pair running in Class A. Class A/B, or push/pull, is very efficient, and reminiscent of Fender amps: tight, broad bottom and crisp, well-defined ("articulate") highs. With Class A the tubes run full throttle. You lose some definition, but gain some sweet, rich upper harmonics. When the two classes are combined you get the best of both worlds: the A/Bs tightening up the Class As, and the Class As sweetening and smoothing the Class A/Bs, resulting in a smooth, raucous, articulate aggression. Many of today's boutique amps run in Class A, as did many early guitar amps. As an aside, I've read that Mesa's Class A in early Mark simul-class amps is not true Class A. I can't really speak to that, nor am I sure how audible the difference is.

Whichever you prefer (simul or non-simul) is really a matter of personal preference. Boogies started out as non-simul "Fenders on steroids". Simul-class was introduced with the Mark IIB. If you prefer that charged-up Fender sound, you don't need Simul, which lends itself very well to heavy metal.

I'm sure you can find information about simul-class on Mesa's website or in their on-ine manuals, and I'll wager others will fill-in the gaps I've left.

 

[gjohung]

Thank you for the explanation.

I get it. Sorry for making a comparison to Digital Modeling amp like Line 6 but... their "California Boutique" seemed to emulate Mk 1,2s.. and their "modern high gain"..seemed to emulated rectifier?? and has that upper tinggle that was every unique - not even brit. Line 6's "thread plate" I thought was modeling of Dual Rectifiers always seemed too muddy and fizzy to me - I am not sure if real DR does that. May be that is the Simul-Class tone.. It is surprising to find that these tones were already available from Mk2s. I was not sure if "Modern High Gain" refer to newer Marshalls like DSL or JCM 2000.

ghj

 

[gjohung]

last night was my 1st test/rehearsal with new tubes in.

I didn't have time to really find the tone. Overall the tone sounded so thin and shrill to me.. although I was using my Strat EJ Model.. increasing bass made it flabby. and crunch sounded too muddy.. I ended up pulling out my OCD to get it going. And I got complain that it was too loud - I think it was more like the sound was piercing..

It goes on..

ghj

 

[jpdennis]

gjohung,

Unless the, and you may want to take out the amp from the case to see it, transformer closest to the input jack has the word simulclass on it the amp is a 100/60 watt and only meant for the 6L6 power tubes. It is best to always get a brand new quad set of power tubes as well as all new 12AX7s. I use the SPAX7 in V1 & V3. If you have reverb you might do the same in V4 as well AND I personally just buy Mesa tubes. My early Mark III is stock and my R2 is louder then my R1 like yours. I fine tune the balance of the R1 & the R2 with the bass knob as well; you can do a google search to check this out. It is a little known easter egg and you will have to do a trial and error [TAE] approach. Use the channel volume along with the master in R1 to get a farely even volume that your worship team likes. Next balance you lead volume and lead master off that settings on the clean channel. Rolling the volume of the guitar should help you a lot more at this point for rhythm versus solo as well. EQ the tone and remember that the solo can really cut and be extremely creamy. If you are producing this through your sound system then just trust the sound person so he/she can do their job

Now for the hum. That can be anything from preamp tubes to bad electicity in the wiring, even new buildings, to power tubes to capacitors to - believe it or not - the washers that the input & footswitch & all the front panel knobs have holding them to the panel [which you do not currently see] inside the amp itself to a poorly connected lead wire to the hot of the input jack to the input jack contacts being dirty. Mesa Engineering is willing to do a once over and I think even a complete re-cap isn't that bad if you can get Mike B to do the work since he does love to dig into fixing older Mesa amps on his bench.

Invest in this and you should see quite a difference. These amps are old and depending upon how they were treated and/or abused they always need TLC from their new owner. Albeit minor adjustments or major overhauls. Based upon what you paid for it you will end up with a fine tone monster which can only appreciate in the future.

Respectfully,

Dennis

 

[gjohung]

http://www.youngnak.com/xe/?mid=video06&document_srl=12075&listStyle=&cpage=

This is video link from last week...

I am the guy with Sunburst Strat... that intro was Mesa... well... I had to kick in OCD...

ghj

 

[gjohung]

Well,

I play guitar for adult service...The audio guy was complimenting how good the youth service guitarist sounds.... He brought in a VAC amp? Never heard of this amp - I don't know how to take this recent amp such as Dr Z Fuches etc... I guess they are a plug and play amp. opposed to Boogie is fine tune find your own tone..

Or may be Mesa has already everything in it.. I thought Mark V was pretty cool.. Here I am struggling... but thank you for all your support here. There are faithful mesa users.. who has been through it all..

ghj