JAN-GE 5751 in MarkV Head

[stokes]

No tubes have been manufactured in the USA since the late 70's.GT did not produce tubes called "GE" in the USA ever.It was a lot of hype.Some of the internals were leftover GE parts that GT purchased,but the actual production was done overseas.

 

[shimmilou]

Yes, they actually had/have a plant in San Fernando California, and they had the original GE machinery from Owensboro KY, and much of the original materials made by the original manufacturers that were used to make the original GE tubes. Not hype at all, it was reality for awhile, although I stated 2008 it might have been as early as 2003. They did have some of the materials made off-shore, but the tubes were made in the good old USA. FYI, there are still a great number of tube manufactures here in the US, they just don't make many tubes used in guitar amps. The GE reissue (reproduction might be more accurate) tubes made by GT were made in California, but are now made in China.

http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/News/Groove-Tubes-Brings-Back-a-Classic/ba-p/34652972

If you can use a search engine, you can probably locate the news stories from California. :wink:

 

[stokes]

Dont believe everything you read on the internet.The tubes were never actually made here.Back in the '70's tree huggers made sure of that.There is so much toxic waste involved in producing tubes it is no longer profitable to make them and dispose of the waste.That is why they are only made in Russia and China,"FYI, there are still a great number of tube manufactures here in the US" that is the type of quote that starts these internet myths.There are absolutely no tubes being manufactured in the USA,for guitar amps or otherwise.GT or anybody else hasnt made them here since the late '70's early '80. In 2003????you are talking out your arse,my friend.

 

[shimmilou]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dont believe everything you read on the internet...

I'll start with your post! :lol: :roll:

 

[stokes]

Believe what you want,but you get no credibility when you link harmony central.The biggest source of mythology when it comes to amps.I started working on amps and collecting tubes back in '69,I didnt learn from reading the web.Tube production in the USA stopped long before there was internet,and likely before you were born.GT did not produce any tubes in this country,ever.You guys talk about winged C as tho they are NOS,to me they are current production crap,and the tubes that GT purported to be USA made are just as bad as any of the russian crap,absolutely nothing like the real GE's

 

[bandit2013]

I do not mind where the tube is made, just as long as it performs well is all that really matters. The most important aspect is the process, materials, quality of workmanship, and of course the audio quality and character.

 

[stokes]

I do not mind where the tube is made, just as long as it performs well is all that really matters. The most important aspect is the process, materials, quality of workmanship, and of course the audio quality and character.

Fact is,they just dont and cant make them like they used to.Think about it,during the 40's thru the 60's everything used tubes,manufacturers made and sold billions of tubes every year,mostly to the military.The military bought and replaced tubes way before they were worn out.If you didnt make a tube up to the military's standard,you didnt get the contract.Most tubes were made in the USA.There is a thought that the JAN and military tubes were much better than those sold to the public.Not the case at all.Do you really think the manufacturers did a run of military tubes,broke down the production line and then ran off inferior tubes to be sold to the public?Not likely.Tube production was very profitable in those days.Now fast forward to today and the only tubes being used are by musicians and to a smaller market,hi-fi users,and only a small amount of hi-fi,since solid state technology is better for hi-fi.The market is miniscule today compared to years ago.It isnt profitable to make tubes as durable as they used to be.I have an ampeg GII I just sold to a friend that still has the same Bugle Boy preamp tubes it was shipped in the mid 60's with.I've owned it since 1969 and believe me it was abused for years.Those tubes are still going strong.I have 100's of NOS tubes I could replace them with,but there is no reason to.If the current production tubes lasted like that,the manufacturers would be out of business in no time.In order to be profitable,they have to build them to fail in a relatively short time.Thgere is nothing made since the late '70's that can compare to those old tubes,period.Some may sound good,but they will not last like the old ones.I have a lot of old stock tubes that were pulls from radio and hi-fi units that are still much better than any new production.Radio and hi-fi dont stress tubes like guitar amps do,so tubes from these units are absolutely fantastic.If you see preamp tubes used in radio for sale on ebay,grab them,they will still have a lot of life.

 

[shimmilou]

Probably a waste of time, but I have some time to waste. As stated before, not many (if any) of these tubes are used in instrument amplifiers, but they are current production tubes made in the USA none-the-less. 8) Some of the tubes are used in expensive Hi-Fi gear though (WE300B). :wink: There might be a US made KT88 by National, but I can't seem to find it at the moment.

Some of the current US produced tube manufacturers, and their locations.

http://www.cpii.com/division.cfm/9 Camarillo, CA; Palo Alto, CA; Woodland, CA; Boalsburg, PA; Beverly, MA

http://www.tritonetd.com/web/guest/home;jsessionid=6277C1AFA62818F3D8C85E06D4805361.liferay1 Breinigsville, PA

http://www.westernelectric.com/ Lookout Mtn, TN; Huntsville, AL

(eYe-dEe-tEn-tEe!)

 

[bandit2013]

Had to check out the Tritonetd website since I came from that area of PA.

Audio Tubes are no longer manufactured in the US. If you can find a useable tube 12ax7, 6L6GC that is still currently made in the us, I am sure many would like to know. The only gripe I have, products must be marked by country of origin. The current mesa tubes I have are not marked with country of origin.

The only difference with JAN tubes or private label tubes from the same source, they are screened to meet a certain criteria. Also there may be a difference of the internals such as plating, grid style, etc... Those elements are produced separately from the final assembly part where the burn in and final process. Even the glass envelope may be different for the same assembly depending on customer specifications.

 

[shimmilou]

Yeah, no tubes for instrument amps (except maybe a KT88), but the WE300B is an audio tube (Hi-Fi), and they are made here in the USA, and the price reflects that. I have read that WE has bought some manufacturing equipment from Europe, and quite possibly will make some instrument amplifier tubes here in the USA, but really haven't seen anything concrete to back this up. That would be too cool! I understand that the demand for audio tubes has been growing in recent years, so I am hopeful, and willing to pay higher prices for USA made tubes. That would probably go a long way towards reducing the price of NOS tubes. In the mean time, if I could only figure out how to make a low powered guitar amp with transmitting tubes.

I had forgot about that requirement of marking country of origin. GT used to leave the original labels on their tubes, now it seems that they are removing them. I wonder if the markings are only necessary to get into the country, then OK to remove? Things change so fast these days, it's hard to keep up.

 

[stokes]

Those tubes are not made in the USA.Just because the company is headquartered here,doesnt mean they are made here.No tubes are produced in the USA,stop dreaming.

 

[bandit2013]

I would rather buy tubes from a company or source that has been in the industry for a very long time. That way you can be certain (one would hope) that the process is fine tuned and repeatable. Aside from the internals (grid, cathode and coating thickness, plate materials, grid composition, and sputtered getter film) it becomes an art how the tube is burned in during the vacuum process. A start up company may have difficulty in reproducing that process. Tubes made under the Svetlana banner a long time ago were great tubes, now that company is known as S.E.D. New Sensor has bought the rights to the Svetlana name (the name is only a US market tradename, not the actual company name). Along with Svetlana, brand names like Tung Sol, Electro Harmonix, Sovtek, Genalex, and Mullard (reissue) are not tradenames owned by New Sensor. I am tempted to do some research on that company and see what I can learn. I have 12ax7 in Tung Sol and EH and they are completely different designs.

 

[bandit2013]

Just as I thought. New Sensor is just a broker or distributor of tubes. Ownership of trade names for the US market.

I did not realize that SED stands for Svetlana Electron Distributors.

http://www.stereophile.com/news/022304svetlana/

 

[shimmilou]

...Svetlana...Tung Sol, Electro Harmonix, Sovtek, Genalex, and Mullard (reissue)...

Yes, New Sensor is the American company that distributes these tubes, and all of these tubes are made in the Reflector plant in Russia. New Sensor also has more to do with the tubes than just distribution, they might even own the plant where the tubes are made. By all accounts, this factory, which has been around for a very long time, has been producing very high quality tubes, and quality has been improving under New Sensor control. Did I mention that this is my favorite tube manufacturing plant?

 

[bandit2013]

Update: I brought my camera home from work and took a close up image of the GT6L6R-2. Image shows the characteristic dual getter cups of SED wing = C =. More proof that Groove Tubes did sell SED's at one point.
The image did not show up, click link below.

http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/bandit2013/media/P5240102_zps72a0e7e5.jpg.html

 

[shimmilou]

Your first picture was proof enough for me, but that's a nice closeup.

 

[bandit2013]

Your first picture was proof enough for me, but that's a nice closeup.

They could have been the New Sensor Svetlana's. I have a quad of those too, installed in the Mark IV. They almost look the same except for the getter. The New Sensor version has a single halo getter, not the two metal cups. They also are quite different in sound quality.

I would have ventured onto the GT gold series if I knew about them. I had a matched quad of GT tubes I bought in late 1999 just before I bought the Mark IV. Put them in my Mark III and was not impressed, then again, they were not winged = C= tubes. I have used GT in the past, in my Fender DR and the Mark III. Groove Tubes never really made it to the top of my list. However I wanted SED's, and the #4 rated GT6L6R-2 were the only option available that would work well with fixed bias. These tubes have lasted the longest to date in the MKV. Fried the Originals, prematurely aged a quad of TS 7581's (which were selected by Doug's Tubes for Mesa) they never red plated like the Mesa stokers but they went flat in a short time.

 

[shimmilou]

Have you compared the Svetlana to the Winged C in the same amp. Just wondering if the sound difference might be because of a different amp, or are the tubes that much different in sound.

 

[bandit2013]

Have you compared the Svetlana to the Winged C in the same amp. Just wondering if the sound difference might be because of a different amp, or are the tubes that much different in sound.

After reading this post, I did just that. The New Sensor Svetlana SV6L6GC sound very close in comparison to the GT6L6R-2 in the Mark V. There is a slight midrange and treble increase and not quite as much bass with the SV6L6GC. I swapped the tubes and left the channel settings untouched. Also played through the same guitar. I would say they are very close, but not close enough to claim they sound the same. I also compared them with the power switch set to variac (reduced voltage) and all channels in the 90W position. I would consider the Svetlana SV6L6GC on the next tube replacement for the MKV. I would also consider TAD winged C but the design appears to be closer to the STR420 but in a straight bottle (based on images I have seen).

The tubes I have used that have similar characteristics GT6L6R-2 (aka SED 6L6GC wing = c=), SV6L6GC and Mesa STR420 (inverted SED design, no longer in production).

 

[shimmilou]

Thanks, great info. I will have to get some of the Svetlana and give them a try.