Help me understand my Mark V (first-time Boogie amp owner)!

[Jiveman]

Hello everybody! Just got my Mark V head few days ago from previous owner. Currently, it's played through a 2x12 Horizontal Rectifier cab. I'm hoping some of you experienced Boogie users and all-around experienced tone masters can give me some good advice and help me understand my new amp a lot better and get the most out of it. A bit long read ahead, but maybe some of you will give it 5 mins and understand.

First thing's first: A Little Bit about Me:

I am new to Mark series. I am new to Mesa Boogie. I am new to tube amps! For the last 12 years or so, I've always been on the budget, always opting for relatively cheap, used, solid-state amps with decent clean channels through which I've been running digital processors responsible for all my sounds (clean, distorted, reverb'd, delayed, chorused, etc.). My setup for last few years has been a Marshall Valvestate combo with BOSS GT-6 processor running everything in front of the CLEAN channel. I've mostly played in cover bands and done some original stuff too. Not much recording. I've learned to live with this setup, and learned to do it fairly well for my needs. I've been complemented on my tone several times (although they were probably not quite tone fanatics ). Nothing fancy, but I think I have managed to strike a good balance of things on the GT-6 (amp emulation + overdrive + reverb/delay/chorus/compression as needed, noise suppression, etc.), coupled with some old-school guitar volume knob work (I often tweak the volume knob as I play). The GT-6 was a HUGE improvement over some older Digitech stuff I used before that. The amp emulators sounded A LOT better to me. Btw, been playing with my Ibanez JPM3 for the last few years, which is now my main guitar.

I've been playing various genres, but mostly staying in heavy-ish ones (ranging from Gary Moore, G'N'R, and similar to Iron Maiden, Metallica, Dream Theater, Pantera, and now some Avenged Sevenfold, Killswitch Engage, etc.). I don't like over-saturated, overly scooped, overly modern fuzzy tones, but I do like to keep it on the "saturated" side of things, I guess. I play lead and rhythm. Bit rusty currently. :-(

Enter the Mark V

In my current band we're starting to do some more gigging and recording, so I finally decided to spend some saved up money on a good amp! I approached this is as needing to get the one amp I will spend a lot of money on now but will never need to buy one ever again!That's probably not going to be reality, but you get the point.

I know I like Petrucci's sounds, in general, so I figured I can't go wrong with a Mark IV or V for the basis of my tone. I'm not trying to copy Petrucci necessarily (yes, I know I also have a JPM3, but nevermind that :wink: ), but it's a good point of reference for me.

So, I'm pretty happy with my initial experience with Mark V, and my first tube amp ever. But I think I have a lot to learn. I've read the manual inside-out, and that helps tremendously, but I feel like I'm sort of in a transitional phase now, and I need to re-learn some things. It's probably that Mark V is not as forgiving as my previous setups have been, so I definitely feel like I have to work more to produce same results as before--but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Some things feel like "not enough gain/saturation," but turning the gain knob just muddies up things and doesn't really get me what I need. Do I need a OD in front of the amp? Feels like it's harder to do things like pick squeals, for example. I know this is far from ideal, but just how much could I get away with using the BOSS GT-6 in front to do some OD (no amp emulation of course)? Maybe I shouldn't put anything in the front and just keep tweaking the channel settings... So far, i can't decide whether I like IV mode better than Extreme. I can't decide whether I like Pentode or Triode better. :?: Do you guys have recommendations from your experience, at least based on the descriptions of music and bands up above?

The Loop

I know it be GREAT to have a nice pro rack unit, but it ain't gonna happen--not soon, at least. So it's going to be the GT-6. Mostly would need that for reverb, delay, chorus, and similar effects. One thing I'm finding is that I have to turn down the SEND on Mark V loop to 9 o'clock in order to keep the incoming signal on GT-6 in normal range. I fear that this is taking away too much of the amp level, as I have to increase the overall output quite a bit, and that the tone is suffering as the result (just by the virtue of having turned down the LOOP circuit so much--never mind the GT-6). Should I be concerned with that? I feel like I don't know my MKV well-enough yet to know for sure.

In Summary

So there you have it.... I apologize for the long post, but I feel like I'm really not able to fully "steer" the MKV yet, and I feel like my tone, whatever little I HAVE learned over the years, is gone now, and needs to be re-learned. Again, this is not necessarily a bad thing, but I wonder if I can get some advice and helpful pointers from you guys! Hopefully, this is not TOO specific to me, and other MKV or tube amp noobs like me can also benefit from this discussion.

A big thanks in advance!!!

p.s. I leave you with an old multi-track recording of me playing Satriani's Summer Song: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4158419/SummerSong.mp3 (this was from like 7 years ago).

 

[Scary]

I just want to address your loop settings. I've found that the loop needs to be around noon or the tone gets thin. This is a pretty hot signal that overloads my memory man. The gforce handles it well though.

 

[jb's 52]

Congrats!!!

Now you say you use to run the Boss up front in your old set up, have you
tried it in front with the Mark V? I run my delay up front and although it
sounds slightly better in the loop, I don't wanna run additional cords for
just one pedal.

Also, I sold my OD and distortions after buying my Mark V because I thought
it was redundant and didn't sound any better than what the amp delivers.
Some would disagree, but either way, you should be able to get "squeals"
w/o the OD. Maybe you need to crank the channel masters higher and
adjust the overall output "to taste."

Lastly, for the genres that you play...you're gonna hate this...and I did too,
but you may want to consider getting some EL34s (take a look at other EL34
threads).

Other than that, check out the setting sticky up top and keep tweaking, you'll
get there!!!

Good luck!!!

 

[Jiveman]

I just want to address your loop settings. I've found that the loop needs to be around noon or the tone gets thin. This is a pretty hot signal that overloads my memory man. The gforce handles it well though.

OK, so I'm not the only one noticing that the loop sounds thinner/worse when the send is set low. Maybe I'll just try to push hotter signal into the GT-6 and see how it sounds. The visual LCD indicator seemed to suggest too hot of a signal, but it may not be too bad.

Now you say you use to run the Boss up front in your old set up, have you
tried it in front with the Mark V?

I have not tried this yet. I thought you had to run time-based effects (reverb, delay, etc.) AFTER the preamp (in the loop)? :?:

...you should be able to get "squeals"
w/o the OD. Maybe you need to crank the channel masters higher and
adjust the overall output "to taste."

I can certainly do the squeals, but not as easily as before. Maybe it's just getting adjusted to the new sound and needing to adjust my technique slightly, too. But I'll keep that in mind with the masters.

...for the genres that you play...you're gonna hate this...and I did too,
but you may want to consider getting some EL34s (take a look at other EL34
threads).

Hmmm, thanks... I didn't realize that EL34s are better suited for these kinds of genres... I'll research this a bit.

 

[litesnsirens]

There's plenty of gain to be had in the Mark V, but I agree the tone that you seem to be looking for will be "easier" to attain with the EL34's. You are also going to find that with this amp the treble acts as another gain and as you bring up the gain, you have to dial back the mid and bass. It's not like other amps that you have used where you can leave all the tone settings at noon and just dial in as much gain as you want. And I am talking about settings that may look way out of whack. Whether you are in Mark IV or Extreme mode, try setting the bass and middle at around 9:30 to 10:00. Treble and Gain between 2:00 and 3:00. For starters engage the GEQ on preset mode and then dial in the preset depth until you think it sounds good. That get you some decent saturation, without muddying up the tone. Of course since I can't tell what you really want to hear, you will need to adjust some things from there. But this should get you in the ball park.

 

[ryjan]

I remember going from modelers to my first tube amp. You almost have to learn to play all over again. I would advise you to tweak on it for a while using the settings in the owners manual as a guide and just get to know your amp. After you feel comfy dialing in good sounds and knowing how everything interacts with tone and feel then I'd start messing with swapping tubes. Congrats on a killer amp!

 

[Scary]

I remember going from modelers to my first tube amp. You almost have to learn to play all over again. I would advise you to tweak on it for a while using the settings in the owners manual as a guide and just get to know your amp. After you feel comfy dialing in good sounds and knowing how everything interacts with tone and feel then I'd start messing with swapping tubes. Congrats on a killer amp!

ryjan makes a good point here. The training wheels come off when you play a great tube amp. Things can be harder to do, and you have to be a better player to sound your best. I'd also agree on using the manual for settings and tweaking from there. Don't bother trying to get a perfect tone yet, you'll find your ears and your tastes change as you play this amp more.

Have fun and congrats on your new instrument!

 

[eudaimonia02912]

Roughly, here are what the controls do:

Gain: adds gain
Master: adds volume and even some gain
Presence: adds sizzle and brightness, can thin out a tone, when down seems to add compression
Treble: adds gain
Mid: adds fullness, stiffens sound, sometimes adds gain
Bass: add some fullness, but also some flubbiness.

 

[Jiveman]

Cool, thanks! Definitely feels like the training wheels have come off. I'll keep tweaking and playing with it. Probably won't do anything with replacing tubes yet, but I'll keep that in mind for future.

One specific question that comes to mind at the moment: can you explain pentode vs. triode setting on CH 3? I've read the manual and I understand the theory behind it--one has faster attack the other is a bit slower/looser/etc. But I'm not sure I'm "really getting it," ya know?! I notice the change in tone when I switch it, but I'm not sure I really know which one I like better right now. Maybe it would help if you guys can give me some examples of WHEN you'd want to use one vs. the other? Different picking style? Staccato vs. legato? Is one better for lead vs. rhythm? etc.

 

[iceman]

Some things feel like "not enough gain/saturation,"

I think some of this is just being new to the Mark series tone in general. From my Triaxis manual discussing the Mark modes lead2 modes (i.e. Mark II/III/IV)

Some players that grew up playing non-Mesa amplifiers may find these dry and stiff at first, but have patience, and you will come to enjoy these modes. There is simply less "slop around the note" in these modes making them sort of a magnifying glass for inaccurate playing. We like to think of these modes as having the built in qualities of a good teacher.

The Mark series amps are not loose (like compared to a rectifier) I would think that is the biggest difference you are hearing/feeling.

 

[Jiveman]

Well, I had my first gig with the MKV, and I'm happy to report good results! I definitely still have plenty to learn and get used to, but the sound on stage two nights ago sounded pretty sweet! The tone cut through pretty well and without pushing ridiculous volumes. The squeals worked great too! I had the 2x12 raised off the floor so I could hear it well, sacrificing some low end rumble.

So far so good! Now, when I get my midi switcher, I'll be doing less tap dancing to go between different tones.

 

[griff3]

It's been a while, but I've used a lot of boogies and a lot of GTX processors.

Your Gt6 should have a way to set the input trim so that you can run the loop send from the mark V at a decent level to keep the tone full. However, you are running extra cabling and an extra set of converters, so expect a little tone loss between not running the loop at all or running it with the Gt6 in it.

The main thing I see that gets new boogie owners is the bass knob on the channels. The bass knob is pre OD and tends to create mud in the tone for heavy music. I run the bass knob completely off sometimes, and get the low end thump from the graphic EQ. I think you'll find that to be pretty typical.

Also, your mids control will act like gain to some degree. Cranking up the mids will definitely increase gain.

With all that in mind, with some of my guitars (the ones with lower output pickups) I do run a boost because I feel like I need just a little more gain out of the amp. With most of my humbucker equipped guitars, there's plenty of gain on the amp.

There you go, hope that helps.
Griff