Forum newbie with a Simul 295 "punch" question

[Blakkwater]

Hi folks

First of all, pleaure to be here, I know nothing of mesa devotees, but I know the amps are awesome, so hopefully the fans are as cool :wink:

And now onto my question. I've been noticing lately (and also getting complaints from my bandmates) that my guitar sound is not ballsy enough.

Firstly, my rig that I'm basing this all on is as follows:
Ibanez SAS32ex (SD Custom 5 trembucker/SD Jazz Neck model)
Rocktron Chameleon
Mesa Boogie Simul-Class 2:95
Sunn 4x12 (Celestion G12T-75's)

I only run one channel at a time in simul-class mode ie 95W, 6L6+EL34.

I bought the 295 from a friend, in 2008, he'd had it for a while, think he may have gotten it used also, but in any case, I haven't retubed since I got it.

here is my problem. Other guitarist in my band has a Peavey 6505 which he runs through a Jackson cab (dunno what kinda speakers are in it). Obviously, since it's a 6505, it's punchy, ballsy, and has a lot of grunt, girth, grit, and grime (and any other g-words you wanna add). He plays a tuneomatic/stop tailpiece set neck Shecter 006 Elite (mahogany body, maple cap, mahogany neck, rosewood fretboard) with a Seymour Duncan Full Shred Bridge and random Duncan Designed single coil in the neck.

In comparison, my rig...well, fully mixed into the band's sound, it sounds fine, it's very clear sounding. For the record, I don't want to mimic the sound of the 6505, but I want my rig to also have a nice aggressive pitbull-like bark. There are currently no balls. no oomph that you feel in the chest. You can hear the sound, but even cranked, it doesn't put the fear of satan into you even if I'm playing my usual high gain rhythm sound.

the way I figure it, that's caused by one (or more) of three things:

Power amp (I say maybe 30% of the problem - old tubes?)
Preamp (maybe 55%, but that's just a hunch and not really based on anything)
Pickups (15% because everyone keeps badmouthing the Custom 5. I've replaced the flathead screws with allen bolts, in the hope of tightening it up a bit, and I can hear the difference it made...sounds tighter, crisper, more similar to the full shred, which is expected since the Full Shred and the Custom 5 have a very similar wind, and the same magnet as well - Alnico5)

My main guitar (which i'm using 98% of the time) is my Ibanez. Mahogany body, Maple set neck, rosewood fingerboard, two point trem floating trem (not a floyd). I seriously doubt my playing style is an issue, because when I play through my other guitarist's amp, the punch and balls are still there.

now after racking my brains trying to figure out what's wrong and what I could do, I came up with a list of things to try next time I'm at the practice room to isolate the problem and hopefully fix it.

1) Try a different guitar/pickup combo
2) Try a different preamp section.
3) Try a different power amp section
4) Try adding a DS-1 set up for a clean/mid boost between the preamp and power amp to add more body to the tone and add some more juice to the signal.
5) Try adding a simple tube-driven mic/instrument pre between the preamp and power amp as a permanent boost (+some tube warmth)
6) Try adjusting the levels of the preamp to give me more headroom at lower volumes.
7) Try bringing up the input level of the preamp in the hope that the output voltage might go up correspondingly.
8 ) Try the scoop function on the preamp used simultaneously with CRANKED mids (not sure if this will even be useful)
10) Try a different cab
11) Try swapping tubes

Unfortunately I'm kinda low on funds so getting new tubes is a last resort since I don't want to be splurging at the moment. Someone on the Seymour Duncan forum suggested getting a 10-band EQ also and putting that in between the preamp and power amp.

Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I can do? I keep hearing that the 295 is a beast of a power amp, but I just haven't heard it act beastly in my rig. I really would like to.

 

[elvis]

I've never heard of changing the screws in a pickup as a way to change its sound. How is that supposed to help?

 

[Blakkwater]

well the hex-head screws are a bit longer and have a different shaped head, also they're made of a different metal (steel i believe) and the original flathead screws are nickel.

Basically they change the shape and characteristics of the magnetic field, which changes the response of the pickup.

generally though, flathead screws = spongier attack, rounder sound.
hex-head/allen screws = crisper, sharper attack, better note definition

 

[flyingfadr]

Hi,

I've got a very similar rig to you... I've got 2 Chameleon ONline's and 2 Mesa 295's and also a Mesa Quad Pre.
You should be able to get major balls out of your rig the way it is...

I would suggest trying out the "Lizard Licks" preset in your Chameleon... that should tell you whether or not it's got Big One's or not... search through your presets and give it a try... you may have to roll off some of the presence in the preset, but it's pretty good one to start with. If it's not in your list of presets, you can download the Original sysex from the R*cktron website.

If that preset doesn't work for you, I would say that your tubes might be worn out... it happens so slowly over time that you don't really notice it... but I would try different presets first.

Good Luck !!

 

[elvis]

The G12T75s in your cab aren't helping. They tend to sound pretty dark as compared to a lot of other popular speakers. If you're looking for a more scratchy, punchy tone, try V30s. I'd at least try out your buddy's cab to see if it changes your tone significantly.

 

[Blakkwater]

hmm interesting, I'll try that FlyingFadr, thanks!

Elvis, yeah, I plan to see how it sounds with a different cab when I'm next at the jam room.

Usually at practice, other guitarist turns his master volume to about 4, meanwhile I dime the output level on the rocktron and still have to turn the 295 to about 7-7.5 to match his volume.

does that sound right? or should it be a ton louder? I have a hunch that the Rocktron isn't driving the power tubes hard enough and that's the reason I have to turn up so much. I expected a 95W Mesa to sound a lot louder than that.

 

[flyingfadr]

Even in a concert situation, I've always had my 295 set at 8 on each side, running stereo... usually power amps are meant to be run at full and adjusting your input as needed... with the Mesa Quad as the preamp... but I have not changed it for using the Chameleon...
It DOES seem that the Chameleon is a little weak on it's output level, but it is a solid state piece... doesnt really come close to the Mesa Quad as far as balls, but I like the fact that the Chameleon has all my FX in ONE unit, as opposed to hauling around a rig with multiple FX processors, compressor, etc... gets too big and heavy to haul, now that the era of big concerts, roadies, and all has kinda gone away... small, light, and simple is good...

and yes, one of my favorite 4x12 cabs does have 2 vintage 30's in it... it has Big Begundas...

you will need a sysex program and computer to load the presets, and to load them into the Chameleon via MIDI, but the COOL thing, is that if you have customized presets, you can BACK THEM UP to the program BEFORE you download new presets... if anything ever happened to your Chameleon, you just download your saved presets into a new Chameleon... it's a beautiful thing...

 

[elvis]

Mesa preamps tend to send out super hot output levels, I assume for driving the heck out of a power amp. I suspect the Chameleon just doesn't drive like that. There's no reason not to run your power amp volume all the way up in order to make up the difference. All the power amp volume control does is cut signal level at the input. There's no reason to cut it if you're not driving it too hard.

 

[Blakkwater]

that makes sense. I'm gonna try running an EQ or a boost between the preamp and power amp and see how that impacts the sound. hopefully positively

 

[Blakkwater]

Well, I had written out a list of things to try to isolate/fix the problem. Didn't quite end up going through my entire list, but I'm pretty sure the problem has a lot to do with my speakers and my preamp.

The speakers are sorta mid scooped so the majority of the bark and aggressive midrange that I would like to hear are missing.

The preamp isn't capable of producing an extended low end and also incapable of producing a nice complex sounding midrange with growl and punch.

What I did in the meantime is this:

Guitar -> Korg Pitchblack -> Behringer Tube mic/instrument preamp (adds a bit of tube responsiveness/dynamics and allows me to better control the level that goes to my preamp input) -> Rocktron Chameleon, slightly cranked mids and treble, moderate bass -> Monte Allums modded Boss DS-1 running at 12V as a clean (as clean as possible) boost with a slight mid boost too -> Mesa Simul 295 -> Sunn 4x12

The tube preamp and the DS-1 help so much. Because of the tube preamp picking dynamics come through in a much more organic way, rather than sounding forced, and adding the slight gain boost after the preamp helps to fatten things up a bit, give it a bit more grind and crunch and helps the Mesa get higher volumes at lower settings so I don't have to friggin CRANK the volume. I've got some tubey dynamics at the preamp stage, and i'm driving my power tubes harder/closer to their normal range for what a Mesa preamp should be so they're responding better too.

It sounds more aggressive, more dynamic, punchier, and definitely more responsive, which is good for now. With new tubes and new speakers it'd sound great I bet. But since I want to get a Head (stiletto maybe?) and get rid of the rack system, I think what I might just do is wait until I get a head to change out the speakers. Will probably do a mix of GT1275 types and V30 types, I'm thinking probably from WGS/Warehouse speakers.