Express 5.50-Higher Gain & Better Tone by Changing Tubes

[Newysurfer]

Ok - I've had the 5:50 1x12" four months now and gig with it every week, often with a 2x12 cab. Time to experiment with tubes so I asked Doug at www.dougstubes.com to recommend me new tubes that would give me higher gain distortion, keeping the same chimy cleans and are low noise. He recommended the following

Preamp
V1 - Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7 Part ID: TS12AX7
V2 - High gain JJ ECC83S Part ID: JJECC83HG
V3 - Penta Labs 12AX7C Part ID: P12AX7C
V4 - Shuguang 12AX7C9 Part ID: SHUG12AX7C9
V5 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS Part ID: 12AX7LPS

Power amp
2x SED 6L6 Winged C

Cost about $US100 all up. I bought em, inserted them, have rehearsed and gigged with em. Result is

Worth every cent. Gives significantly higher gain on burn channel with both single coils and humbucker guitars. Slightly improved chimy cleans. Big surprise was how much noise/hum they cut from the 5.50. Signficantly less hum particularly on the burn channel. Overall the tubes give a smoother, fuller tone on all voicings.

And please no more whining about how the Express won't do Recto metal tones - we all know that and really don't care. It still won't do it with these new tubes but it'll get you closer to hard rock

For such expensive amps it's very slack of Mesa IMHO not to put the best quality tubes thay can find in their amps. I'll keep their stock Chinese ones as backups but otherwise they'll gather dust.

 

[dodger916]

For such expensive amps it's very slack of Mesa IMHO not to put the best quality tubes thay can find in their amps. I'll keep their stock Chinese ones as backups but otherwise they'll gather dust.

Anyone know why?

Frank

 

[recto-robbie]

Because they make a ton of money on all of us. I hate to do this but, think of another company who stamps their name on someone elses tube who makes amps and says you can only use their tubes in their amps.
I cant think of any at this time either.
Anyways, adding new tubes to all the boogies ive owned resulted only in better sounding amps. Ive delt with dougs quite a few times now and always ended up happy. I also have noticed now that doug always seems to pick the same preamp combination of tubes. Im not saying this is bad,, maybe he truelly feels it is the best assortment of preamp tubes he can offer after his own testing, and honestly, all the threads that ive read which state they tried dougs choice of tubes have all stated how much better their rig sounds.

 

[CudBucket]

Doug always recommends the same tubes no matter what amp you ask him about. Some times people put new tubes in their amps and convince themselves it sounds better.

 

[recto-robbie]

True about Doug,, and sometimes people try new tubes and it does sound better, the rest just accept living with crappy tone!

 

[lyman]

Because they make a ton of money on all of us. I hate to do this but, think of another company who stamps their name on someone elses tube who makes amps and says you can only use their tubes in their amps.
I cant think of any at this time either.

the closest i can think of is Groove TUbes. They don't have a tube factory either and rebrand others' tubes. they also make some tube equipment, not as much as mesa of course. and i don't know if they push their own tubes in their documentation/manuals.

 

[Toon]

When you changed the power tubes in the Express did you need to alter the bias?

 

[Barry]

When you changed the power tubes in the Express did you need to alter the bias?

Mesa amps have fixed bias . Where about are you in Hants ? My cousin lived in Tadley .

 

[TheRazMeister]

For Mesa's it seems he does. I have the exact same pre-amp tubes now in my Rectoverb as Newy has in his "incapable of high gain, but can do hard rock" 5:50 (sorry Newy, I couldn't resist 8) ). I think they sound great but I'm beginning to believe that the Tung Sol in the V1 is the reason. I also did a full re-tube in my Crate V32 with the Tung sol in the V1 and JJ's in the others (from Doug) While testing I noticed that there was a distinct tonal improvement whenever I used the TS (I was having problems so I A/B'd quite a bit). All in all, I would definitely use his recommendation but if push came to shove, I would at least change the V1 to a Tung Sol.

Doug always recommends the same tubes no matter what amp you ask him about. Some times people put new tubes in their amps and convince themselves it sounds better.

 

[edward]

For such expensive amps it's very slack of Mesa IMHO not to put the best quality tubes thay can find in their amps. I'll keep their stock Chinese ones as backups but otherwise they'll gather dust.

Anyone know why?

Frank

QC and Consistency which *they* can control. Simple. It may not be "optimal," but then again what is optimal to one is not optimal to another. This IS the dance any manuf must do when building for the masses as it has been a verrrry long time since Randall S built these one-by-one for indiv orders. And to say the tubes are not "high quality" is, with respect, completely incorrect. They just aren't "your" tone, but they perform the task required of them, and they don't fail at a any higher rate than other current-production tubes.

They can also warrant their amps and tubes since they have known entities. How many tube sellers warrant their tubes?? Ask them and nearly all will tell you they will only guarantee against DOA, and that's it. Nevermind the fact that it doesn't match your fixed-bias amp and may sound like garbage, or simply the tubes crap out at the 2nd month.

The Mesa business model is about as "custom" and "boutique" as you can get, while still catering (very effectively, IMHO) to a large buying public. All that said, I have replaced EVERY tube in EVERY boogie I've owned with my own recipe. But that's to suit me. I couldn't possibly expect Randall to or Mike to know what I like to play

Edward

 

[TheRazMeister]

To add to this, I believe there is a thread explaining the stance Mesa has on their tube selection. What it comes down to is a combination of sound AND reliability. They warranty the tubes so they have a responsibility company wise to get a tube that won't only sound good for 2 months and then break down. Heck I already feel like my tone is not as good as it was 3-4 months ago and I know with the stock pre-amp tubes, the amp sounded exactly the same for over a year.

For such expensive amps it's very slack of Mesa IMHO not to put the best quality tubes thay can find in their amps. I'll keep their stock Chinese ones as backups but otherwise they'll gather dust.

Anyone know why?

Frank

 

[Newysurfer]

For such expensive amps it's very slack of Mesa IMHO not to put the best quality tubes thay can find in their amps. I'll keep their stock Chinese ones as backups but otherwise they'll gather dust.

Anyone know why?

Frank

QC and Consistency which *they* can control. Simple. It may not be "optimal," but then again what is optimal to one is not optimal to another. This IS the dance any manuf must do when building for the masses as it has been a verrrry long time since Randall S built these one-by-one for indiv orders. And to say the tubes are not "high quality" is, with respect, completely incorrect. They just aren't "your" tone, but they perform the task required of them, and they don't fail at a any higher rate than other current-production tubes.

They can also warrant their amps and tubes since they have known entities. How many tube sellers warrant their tubes?? Ask them and nearly all will tell you they will only guarantee against DOA, and that's it. Nevermind the fact that it doesn't match your fixed-bias amp and may sound like garbage, or simply the tubes crap out at the 2nd month.

The Mesa business model is about as "custom" and "boutique" as you can get, while still catering (very effectively, IMHO) to a large buying public. All that said, I have replaced EVERY tube in EVERY boogie I've owned with my own recipe. But that's to suit me. I couldn't possibly expect Randall to or Mike to know what I like to play

Edward

Fair comment Edward - I totally agree tone is a subjective thing. One issue that sticks out here though is the noisyness factor. Mesa's Chinese tubes definately gave a higher volume background hiss on both the clean and burn channels and I doubt many people would find this a tone improvement

 

[TheRazMeister]

I only say this because my Mesa has never been anything but dead silent, even on the gain channel, but I wonder if you had gotten bad tubes with your 5:50? Honestly, I did notice a tone difference but it wasn't enough to change the characteristics of the amp...it just made it sound slightly smoother.

Fair comment Edward - I totally agree tone is a subjective thing. One issue that sticks out here though is the noisyness factor. Mesa's Chinese tubes definately gave a higher voume background hiss on both the clean and burn channels and I doubt many people would find this a tone improvement

 

[CudBucket]

True about Doug,, and sometimes people try new tubes and it does sound better, the rest just accept living with crappy tone!

So Doug's recipe is right for every amp? :roll:

 

[Newysurfer]

I only say this because my Mesa has never been anything but dead silent, even on the gain channel, but I wonder if you had gotten bad tubes with your 5:50? Honestly, I did notice a tone difference but it wasn't enough to change the characteristics of the amp...it just made it sound slightly smoother.

Fair comment Edward - I totally agree tone is a subjective thing. One issue that sticks out here though is the noisyness factor. Mesa's Chinese tubes definately gave a higher volume background hiss on both the clean and burn channels and I doubt many people would find this a tone improvement

Raz - don't you have a Rectoverb ??

 

[TheRazMeister]

Sorry for the confusion, yes I have Rectoverb, but Doug recommended the exact same pre-amp configuration for the ROV. I'd be surprised if the 5:50 was any noisier than a rectifier though..

I only say this because my Mesa has never been anything but dead silent, even on the gain channel, but I wonder if you had gotten bad tubes with your 5:50? Honestly, I did notice a tone difference but it wasn't enough to change the characteristics of the amp...it just made it sound slightly smoother.

Fair comment Edward - I totally agree tone is a subjective thing. One issue that sticks out here though is the noisyness factor. Mesa's Chinese tubes definately gave a higher volume background hiss on both the clean and burn channels and I doubt many people would find this a tone improvement

Raz - don't you have a Rectoverb ??