Dual Rec vs. Single Rec vs. Mini Rec

[caustic69]

Hello all,

I am a noobie here and have no personal experience with Mesa amps. I recently played a modern Dual rec which I believe is referred to as a "reborn" rec. It had three channels and 50/100 watt power options. Well, it was completely awesome. It floored me and while it was all good I was particularly impressed by the red channel modern high gain.

So now I am interested in picking up a rectifier of some kind. Well I have seen the new mini recs that are out there and I am wondering are they any different from a single rec (other than the single being 50 watts and the mini being 25/10 watts and the mini running EL84's vs. the singles 6L6's)

Is there any difference in tone?

Also, I will likely be buying used if I go Dual or Single route vs. the mini. Not really looking to spend over $1K. I pretty routinely see singles for $1K or less and occasionally see Dual Recs for $1K.

ALso what is so different between the Old Dual and the new Reborn? The extra channel and power options are differences but anyting else and is the tone much different?

greatmutah answered some of these questions for me in the Rectifier FAQ ( Thanks greatmutah) but I have some up with a couple of new ones so I thought I'd post here for more responese/opinions.

I don't really need the 100 watts as I don't play out live so I am looking at the Singles and Mini but it was the Dual that I actually fell in love with in the first place.
So does the diode rectification vs. tube make a huge difference in terms of tone? If so, how?

sorry if I am all over the place, I appreciate the wealth of knowledge here on this forum.

Thanks

 

[D2dark]

I prefer the mini because of the tighter sound, a bit less botom end but i can deal with it.

The output tubes do make a tone difference so the best I can say is go to your local store and do A/B if you can.

 

[Matt O'Casster]

If you don't require 100w, definitely go with the mini over the single Rec. I had a single Rec combo and I traded it in on the mini. The mini is more portable and sounds better.

 

[caustic69]

Interesting on the mini. Seems like the circuit would/should be basically the same, both with diode rectification but the mini is running EL84's while I think the Single can run either 6L6 or EL34.

 

[YellowJacket]

Choices, choices.

You have several Recto flavours available at or around the 1K mark.

A little above = 2 Channel Duals and the much lauded Tremoverb. (Consider that you can yank two power tubes and a rectifier tube to run the old Duals at 50watts. This is the same as the 3 channel.
The 2 Channel Duals are the quintessential grunge / numetal tone of the 90s. Nice amps. They are smoother overall and less fizzy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeAhLS68f3k (Rev F Dual. Same as mine)

The Rev F and G also have a nice clean channel. (the Rev G 2 channel will be around 1K. Earlier models go for a hair more, and the Tremoverb is CA $1200 but you can get them for less if you shop.) The Rev C - E duals are tighter and clearer and the clean tones are terrible. The Rev F is a bit darker and looser and it has a great clean. The Rev G also has the improved clean but it is looser, warmer, and bigger sounding.
The Tremoverb has onboard tremolo and reverb but the big secret is the 'blues mode'. The amp is capable of much more in terms of versatiliy / tone.

Around 1k
3 Channel Duals. Well, see this vid for comparison sake. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJInfJSkMsI
This is the old 3 Channel vs the Reborn. You can see how the Reborn has way better Raw and Clean modes. The high gain is brighter and clearer which is also nice.

Single Recto. More upper mids and a more clear / aggressive tone. Definitely sounds better at a bit lower volumes. Also Rectoverb.

Single Recto vs Dual Recto Reborn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7f92E70M48&list=UU145T9IzBuzINn5KV_e5CUQ&index=6&feature=plcp

Mini Recto: The ultimate in portability. Definitely has that EL-84 character. The clean is great and if you're into that high gain tone, it is quite fun to play!

Mini vs Reborn Recto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXY53F03-lk


Now, if I was new to the market I'd get the Reborn, no question. The improved clean and raw modes along with the clear and brighter 'updated' sound is an easy sell in my books. It really can cover pretty much any style which is a huge plus as far as I'm concerned. If you require this versatility, the Mini Recto is your next bet. Just don't expect as much of a mule kicking balls heavy tone from the Mini. The larger displacement amps have more 'guts' to the tone. Obviously, for a few more Dollars, the Tremoverb fits the bill as well. Really though, every recto is awesome so you can't go wrong. Just go try some stuff.

 

[caustic69]

Choices, choices.

You have several Recto flavours available at or around the 1K mark.

A little above = 2 Channel Duals and the much lauded Tremoverb. (Consider that you can yank two power tubes and a rectifier tube to run the old Duals at 50watts. This is the same as the 3 channel.
The 2 Channel Duals are the quintessential grunge / numetal tone of the 90s. Nice amps. They are smoother overall and less fizzy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeAhLS68f3k (Rev F Dual. Same as mine)

The Rev F and G also have a nice clean channel. (the Rev G 2 channel will be around 1K. Earlier models go for a hair more, and the Tremoverb is CA $1200 but you can get them for less if you shop.) The Rev C - E duals are tighter and clearer and the clean tones are terrible. The Rev F is a bit darker and looser and it has a great clean. The Rev G also has the improved clean but it is looser, warmer, and bigger sounding.
The Tremoverb has onboard tremolo and reverb but the big secret is the 'blues mode'. The amp is capable of much more in terms of versatiliy / tone.

Yellowjacket, Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. So of the 2 channel Dual Rectos, how can you tell which Rev is which? You mention Revs C-G, with F&G having the better cleans but how do you tell them apart from looking at them or do you have to go inside the amp?

Thanks,

 

[YellowJacket]

**Coughgetatremoverbcough**

Rev C and D are serial numbers 1 - 60X? So roughly the first 500 or so made. E is around 600 - 700 ish and the Rev F heads go from around 700 to approx 3000? Mine is 26XX.

To answer your question, yes, you need to pull the chassis out of the headshell and look on the circuit board. By the big blue filter caps, you'll see the revision printed directly on the circuit board. Rev G Dual REctos are pretty stinking good too, just so you know.

Rev G by a member here! SUP Fluff191!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdbKp-tK4Cc

 

[ChrisRocksUSA]

I hate those haggerty's videos.

I can't trust them b/c they always dial in a bullshit tone that's not a fair representation of what the amp is capable of. Perfect example is that example of an old 2 channel dual, compared to haggerty's vid (which makes the recto sound like a bag of ****)

 

[YellowJacket]

The old 2 channel Duals do have a unique tone to them. My Rev F really sounds like the one in that vid.

I also don't agree with the tone in the Haggertys videos but they are definitely a useful tool when used with other Haggertys vids. YOu still DO get the idea of how an old 3 channel head compares with the Reborn, how the Single compares with the Dual, and how the Dual compares with the Mini.

 

[ChrisRocksUSA]

I had a 3 channel dual in college, and I have the rectoverb now. Both sound much better (like, no comparison) than the haggerty videos. They make any amp sound bad :shock:

 

[YellowJacket]

I had a 3 channel dual in college, and I have the rectoverb now. Both sound much better (like, no comparison) than the haggerty videos. They make any amp sound bad :shock:

Keep in mind the speakers / or headphones you are using also shape guitar tone. I find that with my Vic Firth isolation headphones the Official Mesa Electra Dyne demo sounds much more similar to real life tone than the sound I get from my Mackie MR5 Reference Monitors.

 

[ChrisRocksUSA]

I had a 3 channel dual in college, and I have the rectoverb now. Both sound much better (like, no comparison) than the haggerty videos. They make any amp sound bad :shock:

Keep in mind the speakers / or headphones you are using also shape guitar tone. I find that with my Vic Firth isolation headphones the Official Mesa Electra Dyne demo sounds much more similar to real life tone than the sound I get from my Mackie MR5 Reference Monitors.

I'm using a mesa cab w/ V30s. No reason why his tone sucks that much dong in those vids

 

[YellowJacket]

I had a 3 channel dual in college, and I have the rectoverb now. Both sound much better (like, no comparison) than the haggerty videos. They make any amp sound bad :shock:

Keep in mind the speakers / or headphones you are using also shape guitar tone. I find that with my Vic Firth isolation headphones the Official Mesa Electra Dyne demo sounds much more similar to real life tone than the sound I get from my Mackie MR5 Reference Monitors.

I'm using a mesa cab w/ V30s. No reason why his tone sucks that much dong in those vids

Perhaps you misunderstood me. Recorded tone is created by amp EQ and by mic type and mic placement. Then after recording it, it gets manipulated by an audio engineer. This tone then is sent through a preamp and a power amp and eventually through linear output speakers designed for listening. Depending on computer speakers / headphones, or whatever listening equipment you choose to use, the tone will be coloured by the various devices it has to travel through. The end result is that often what you hear from an amp in a room is different than what you hear when it is recorded.

 

[ChrisRocksUSA]

Perhaps you misunderstood me. Recorded tone is created by amp EQ and by mic type and mic placement. Then after recording it, it gets manipulated by an audio engineer. This tone then is sent through a preamp and a power amp and eventually through linear output speakers designed for listening. Depending on computer speakers / headphones, or whatever listening equipment you choose to use, the tone will be coloured by the various devices it has to travel through. The end result is that often what you hear from an amp in a room is different than what you hear when it is recorded.

I DID misunderstand!

still, people w/ babydick recording set ups seem to get better tone out of these amps than haggerty's. they should invest in worthwhile recording equipment to better showcase these amps. I get irked by these guys b/c all of their videos sound like crap.

 

[elvis]

As sketchy as the tone is in the videos, I found the shootouts to be really helpful. You can at least tell that one amp has more low end than the other, or that the crunch has a different character, etc.

I also run my computer into my Carvin PA with 3-way 15" monitors when I listen to the vids on youtube. The tone sounds pretty good that way, and I think pretty close to real life.

 

[bcdon]

I hate those haggerty's videos.

To each his own, but I really like Don's videos. Don't forget that Youtube adds some artifacts of their own... but your ear, is your ear. But, like I said, I like his reviews. \m/

 

[YellowJacket]

Perhaps you misunderstood me. Recorded tone is created by amp EQ and by mic type and mic placement. Then after recording it, it gets manipulated by an audio engineer. This tone then is sent through a preamp and a power amp and eventually through linear output speakers designed for listening. Depending on computer speakers / headphones, or whatever listening equipment you choose to use, the tone will be coloured by the various devices it has to travel through. The end result is that often what you hear from an amp in a room is different than what you hear when it is recorded.

I DID misunderstand!

still, people w/ babydick recording set ups seem to get better tone out of these amps than haggerty's. they should invest in worthwhile recording equipment to better showcase these amps. I get irked by these guys b/c all of their videos sound like crap.

First of all, I have whined about the tones these guys dial in as well. Then I realized that they're doing this for free out of the goodness of their hearts so now I appreciate more the effort involved.

They're running a royer ribbon mic to record the gear. They have a pretty high end recording setup. You are right, tone is a question of personal taste -i.e. how the amp should be set- but there are other factors involved as well. Once you get the correct mic placement and you have a sound on your computer, you have to account for what tone different people's headphones, stereos, and computer speakers have. Basically the same recording will have a different tone through each individual setup.
Chances are, the guys at Haggertys are listening to the tone on studio monitors and the 'recorded' results influences how they set the dials on the amp. I bet they don't do any post processing to when they are done. Just one track, just one take. Most guitar tracks are EQ'd after they are recorded and you can do all sorts of cool stuff like multi tracking. Raw takes are NOTHING like a more produced sound. I'd hazard a guess that these guys recording in their basements are recording with something like an SM57, which sounds awesome. They do multiple layers and they then EQ everything on headphones or computer speakers, the same sort of monitoring system like what you are using to listen to the tracks.

I hate those haggerty's videos.

To each his own, but I really like Don's videos. Don't forget that Youtube adds some artifacts of their own... but your ear, is your ear. But, like I said, I like his reviews. \m/

The reviews are awesome and very helpful. Incidentally, the tones he dials in sound VERY different with the Vic Firth Isolation Headphones than they do with the Mackie MR5 Reference Monitors.

 

[JW123]

If your listening to these videos thru a carvin pa and speaker, would that make it sound more like Vai?



LOL!

 

[Dave G.]

I actually like the haggartys videos....they are some of the only honest ones online imo! Im really loving my mini rec still! Ive been playing between that and my pre 2010 dual and i think the mini sounds a little bit better to my ears. It has a bit more midrange i think and just fits my playing a tad bit better. Havent cranked it up yet but id say it will sound even better. Not too sure if it will beat my dual cranked though!

 

[siggy14]

You guys also have to understand Don, listen to the style of music he is playing which is what most people do not use recto's for. It is also obvious he is not using a booster pedal like most other videos use.