A word on these "Tube Gremlins"

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Anonymous

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This is partly in response to this thread:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40133

Any setup that sounds good to me one day and lousy another I have eventually gotten rid of at one point or another - either parts of it or the entire thing. Over the past few years I've gotten to own many pieces of gear. What was great about it was I learned so much about different equipment by "chasing the purple dragon", but what made me nervous is that I felt I'd never be satisfied with my tone, always wanting to change this or that. I'd plug in and, rather than play, tweak knobs for hours at a time until I got too frustrated, too tired, or too much ear fatigue to continue.

Since then, I've found my perfect setup. I run a full stack of greenbacks with a Bogner XTC 101b - pre '04 gain mod - and a '93 Dual Rec Rev. F. Every time I plug into these amps, I get a smile on my face. No, they don't cover everything - I still don't have the clean tone I want - but rock thru metal I have thoroughly covered. Whenever I plug into those amps, I am finally free of pushing knobs and can play my **** guitar!

My purpose in posting this is that last week I bought a Mark V. I have since returned it because although it has tones that are "pretty good", there's something in the high end that just isn't right. Put simply, I imagine there's a reason people will continue to hold their IIC+s so highly, and yes, for reasons other than the price they paid. For a live setup where versatility is important, it would be easy to justify one because although not perfect, they can sound decent. However, anyone interested in that elusive "perfect tone" would, IMHO, be happier looking elsewhere.

Just to give some background info so the degree of flaming I receive may be lessened, I tried everything with the Mark. I tried different cabs, different speakers - V30s and G12Ms, different guitars, different rooms, pre tubes, power tubes; everything. I set it up many different ways, going from example settings in the manual to suggested settings in the Mark V tone settings thread, and used my ears just like I have with every other Mesa. It just wasn't right.

The other purpose I have in posting this is to say it's possible to get exactly what you want in guitar tone. It might cost a little, but it's probably out there, and if you're getting frustrated with gear day after day, I will almost guarantee it isn't your ears, the weather, etc. My advice is to play as many different rigs as possible, and preferably rigs that other people are happy with. Have them set up their amps the way they normally would, get it to something they believe sounds good, and then judge. I do believe the worst way to deal with "tone gremlins" is to live with it. You'll eventually become uninspired, and guitar playing will become lower and lower on your priority list.

Flame on! :twisted:
 
No flamin' here....I totally agree. I've had a good amount of gear over the years in search of MY sound; and sometimes you get it and sometimes you don't. Other times, the sound in your head, and what you "think" you want changes, so your rig has to change too. And so it goes on and on and ...

All in the neverending quest for "The Sound".... :mrgreen:
 
When I'm happy with my tone on my Mark IV, I'm very happy. Most times when my tone sounds off to me I believe is in my playing more than my amp or gremlins. Most Mesa amps are so sensitive to playing style and that is why I think a lot of people hear changes from day to day.
 
ryjan said:
When I'm happy with my tone on my Mark IV, I'm very happy. Most times when my tone sounds off to me I believe is in my playing more than my amp or gremlins. Most Mesa amps are so sensitive to playing style and that is why I think a lot of people hear changes from day to day.

The nail's head has been hit squarely!!!!! :p :mrgreen:

That really is a good description, ryjan. Wish I had put it that way on the other post referred to earlier....we thought it was just in proportion to barley malts! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: (and could still be, come to think of it :? )

But seriously, Mesa's are extremely touch sensitive and each person's "touch" and technique can vary from day to day....
whether we are tired or inspired or wired or ...whatever...a Boogie will let it show through!

A more compressed amp will seem to smooth things over more readily. This is not meant as a cut on other amps, but could be something to consider the next time one is shopping for an amp! 8)

As always, good luck! :D
 
The touch sensitivity and playing have a tremendous amount to do with it, but then I think a power chord - whether or not you're playing well - should sound consistently good with that logic.

I hear what you guys are saying about how things change though. I also feel like my Bogner - without the gain mod - responds just as much to my playing as any Mesa, and sounds very consistently good, not to mention my Recto which never needs tweaking.
 
I've finally come to accept the Gremlins. My amp is just another living, breathing member of the band. A moody, bitchy member but we love him anyway. :lol:
 
TheMagicEight said:
Put simply, I imagine there's a reason people will continue to hold their IIC+s so highly, and yes, for reasons other than the price they paid.


For Sure!

I tried to get the MkIII (many different stripes) and the MkIV to capture the C+ "mojo". My best luck was with the MkIVA, but this was only the lead channel. The rhythm channel of the C+ is equally as impressive as the lead channel, IMHO. The tone gremlins never seem to come around when I have the '71 goldtop Les Paul plugged into the C+, for some reason. :twisted:
 
I concur. I've played strictly Mesa amps for the last 8 years. I started with a 3 channel Triple, and sold it shortly after buying it (which was because I was trying to dial it in like other amps.). I then migrated to a 2 channel Dual and was much happier (partly because I figured out how to dial it in!). I've stuck with that basic setup ever since, and have been fairly happy with it. I went though a few different processors before settling on a Digitech GSP2101. Still, there seemed to be something missing. I was happy with the majority of the tone, but there always seemed to be a certain frequency missing that I needed to have.

A couple months ago, I got a 5150 head from a buddy. I don't really care for them on their own, but it was cheap and I couldn't pass it up. I decided to run it along with my DR and see what happened. These two amps work extremely well together. The 5150 added that missing chunk that I've been looking for.
 
:D I couldn't agree more with most of this!

I did find that my Mark IV was tempermental though.
In the end I sold it because the DC-10 sounded just as good to me but was always dead on in the tone department.
And, I didn't have to precisely tweak it to get my sound. The Mark IV is an amazing amp, but just not what I was looking for. I wanted to play, not play with my amp!


Since our oldest son was born almost 8 years ago, I've been concentrating on finding out just what makes good tones what they are.
In this quest, I discovered that almost any amp, even a Blue Voodoo can be altered to create a tone that I would be looking for.
It's been very enlightening and semi-profitable at the same time!


So......tone is in the hands.
But.....a great amp can be more inspiring than just living with an amp that almost does it for you, but not quite!


:mrgreen: All this babbling and sometimes, when my playing is more off than usual, my DC-10 just sounds wrong! Most of the time though, it just kills small furry creatures! :mrgreen:
 
Is it just me, or do substantially more Gremlins live in the R2 channel of a Mark IV?

I'm ALWAYS happy with the R1 & Lead channels, those seem to sound good regardless of where I set the knobs, but R2 is a moody creature. One day it's all sweet and the next it's just flat. So, I switch to Lead and roll back the guitar's volume till R2 gets in the mood.

I honestly think R2 needs hot power tubes to sound right. If you can't play loud then it's tough to get the sound right.
 
one thing i've noticed is that the voltage coming out of the wall can change the tone of my mark, most noticeably on the gain channel. i've made a habit of measuring the voltage w/a multi-meter before i plug in & can say that voltages vary quite a bit from socket to socket & even from hour to hour on the same socket. Mesa puts those tweed/spongy switches in for a reason.

Monsta-Tone said:
:D I couldn't agree more with most of this!

I did find that my Mark IV was tempermental though.
In the end I sold it because the DC-10 sounded just as good to me but was always dead on in the tone department.
And, I didn't have to precisely tweak it to get my sound. The Mark IV is an amazing amp, but just not what I was looking for. I wanted to play, not play with my amp!


Since our oldest son was born almost 8 years ago, I've been concentrating on finding out just what makes good tones what they are.
In this quest, I discovered that almost any amp, even a Blue Voodoo can be altered to create a tone that I would be looking for.
It's been very enlightening and semi-profitable at the same time!


So......tone is in the hands.
But.....a great amp can be more inspiring than just living with an amp that almost does it for you, but not quite!


:mrgreen: All this babbling and sometimes, when my playing is more off than usual, my DC-10 just sounds wrong! Most of the time though, it just kills small furry creatures! :mrgreen:
 
That is a really good point! I see a lot of different voltages all over this town.
When I lived on Maui, we had a little cottage in Haiku for a while. It only had 112 volts and only 1 phase was available. It sucked. I had to buy a voltage regulator just to get the computer to turn on.
 
Monsta-Tone said:
:D
So......tone is in the hands.
:

What Monsta-Tone said, to me, is the key.

Maybe I'm crazy or my ears are so damaged, but whether its Mesa (had a DR - moved to a Deuce), Marshall (had and still have a few of these too), or Fender (had a Twin back in the day, have a BlJr), when listening to old recordings with each of them, I always sound like me and, and in some cases, have trouble remembering what I was using.

I agree some nights there seems to be tube gremlins out and about, but so many other variables play into how the amp sounds from night to night (room, position, mix, wall voltages, etc...).
 
I have to admit though that my Mark IV would sound strange some days.
Same Room, same position, same settings, the footswitch cable hadn't even been moved. But....it would sound funky (in a bad way) 1 out of 3 nights.
:lol: Maybe it was the drummer's weed smoke! :lol: Not sure.
 
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