2 ch. Dual Rec vs. Roadster comparison! (ITT recorded clips)

[Metaltastic]

So I paid a visit to my good buddy Juan (aka nitrobattery on here) yesterday, for a little comparison between my 2 ch Dual Rec and his Roadster, and came away with the conclusion that, well, I need a Roadster! Couldn't get a 3 ch. Dual Rec for the test unfortunately, but I'm quite confident the Roadster would pwn it too; it and the Road King to me define just perfection in Mesa tones (e.g. the most recent two Behemoth albums, meaning Evangelion and The Apostasy, as well as "Train of Thought", horrible music notwithstanding ). Here's a gear pr0n shot of our rigs in his attic (the Marshall knows its place behind the big boys :twisted: )

Now one thing to mention - unfortunately, his interface was a 002, so that was what we used for D/A conversion (sending out the DI's), preamplification (is that a word?) of the mic'ed signal, and then A/D'ing it, so while I'm usually not one to blame interface/preamps for tone, from all I've heard about that unit in this case it might be a bit warranted! (but I'm still pretty happy with the results ) I re-amped the same DI's through both amps, used my Tube Screamer and cab for both recordings (just cuz I know them so well), and the 57 was in the exact same place on the same speaker, so the differences you hear are all in the amps! (we put the same power tubes in each too, though different preamp tubes). And finally, the cab was in the same room, so I couldn't really tweak the Roadster that well since I couldn't monitor the recorded sound, so I'm sure it could still do better (though I'm still pretty happy with it now, though maybe a bit muffled)

ANYWAY, here they are! (only HP/LP, no other eq'ing)

2 ch. Dual Rec.mp3
Roadster.mp3

2 ch. Dual Rec GTRS.mp3
Roadster GTRS.mp3

And here are the DI's if anyone wants to do some re-amping themselves! (Ibanez RGA321F, EMG 81 @ 18v, brand new strings)

 

[Metaltastic]

And to be clear, what I really like about the Roadster is exactly what I hoped - it's still fizzy as all high gain tones are, but that particular 6k fizz of the 2 ch. is supremely reduced, while still retaining the awesome Recto character; IMO it's like my recordings of my 2 ch. after I apply the 6k cut, but without the cut! And the settings on the 2 ch. were these with a bit more bass, so it's not like I had any extreme amount of high-end dialed in! (it's just how the amp is voiced, none of the eq controls have an effect on that particular frequency)

As for the Roadster, we used pretty much the same settings as on the 2 ch., except with the Presence at 9:00 on channel 4 (as the manual states it's super aggressive like on the red channel on the 3 ch. models); however, we also recorded a clip of Channel 3 of the Roadster, which is identical to 4 except for a weaker presence knob, so we used the same settings but with the presence at around 1:30, and the results were so similar I didn't bother posting the clip. It may be a bit muffled now that I listen to it on my setup, but I find it's a whole lot easier to add in cut than to take it away!

 

[Nitrobattery]

As a general rule if you run your treble around noon on a Dual Rec, you need to bump it up to around 1:30 on the Roadster. That's the thing I love about this amp though, you can have a good amount of treble and presence for "crunch" but you don't get the fizz.

I'm glad you're happy with the results though. It's a hell of an amp and you definitely won't regret picking one up.

 

[XnaySaturo]

That's a pretty nice tone you got there... Can you share the settings used on the Roadster?

 

[Metaltastic]

Thanks! And yeah, as I mentioned we used pretty much identical settings as the pic of my 2 ch. settings above (with a bit more bass, at like 11:00) but with the presence at around 9:00. But yeah, I can't wait to get one and experiment with adding in more treble and not having to worry about the fizz of DOOM!!!

So, anyone wanna buy a 2 ch. Revision G Dual Rec with an attached power cord, high-quality padded slip cover from D2F on ebay, and custom 2-button footswitch? (for controlling the loop and channel) $1250 shipped!

 

[Metaltastic]

As a general rule if you run your treble around noon on a Dual Rec, you need to bump it up to around 1:30 on the Roadster. That's the thing I love about this amp though, you can have a good amount of treble and presence for "crunch" but you don't get the fizz.

I'm glad you're happy with the results though. It's a hell of an amp and you definitely won't regret picking one up.

Yeah dude, thanks again for hosting me and my tweaking, it was very informative! 8)

 

[Nitrobattery]

Thanks! And yeah, as I mentioned we used pretty much identical settings as the pic of my 2 ch. settings above (with a bit more bass, at like 11:00) but with the presence at around 9:00. But yeah, I can't wait to get one and experiment with adding in more treble and not having to worry about the fizz of DOOM!!!

So, anyone wanna buy a 2 ch. Revision G Dual Rec with an attached power cord, high-quality padded slip cover from D2F on ebay, and custom 2-button footswitch? (for controlling the loop and channel) $1250 shipped!

care to part with just the slip cover?

Yeah dude, thanks again for hosting me and my tweaking, it was very informative! 8)

My pleasure man!

 

[Metaltastic]

Wouldn't fit your Roadster I'm afraid, as it's deeper than the standard Rectos!

 

[Nitrobattery]

Wouldn't fit your Roadster I'm afraid, as it's deeper than the standard Rectos!

This...is true. I ordered a Mesa slip cover a few months ago, but this was when I was working my 9-5 at the bank. Mesa first sent the slip cover to Arkansas (no joke) and then after I got that straightened out they came to my apartment, but required a signature. I was at work during the hours that they came, so I never got my stupid slip cover. I should probably check my credit card statements to see if they ever refunded me.

 

[CJG]

Haha...that's cool! I've done a very similar test once, to help a fellow forumite out.
I dialed the Roadster to make it sound like my old pre-500 Recto, and was EXTREMELY similar...it was hard to tell the difference

However, the clips You did sound awesome!! Good job!

CJ

 

[Silverwulf]

I'll listen in a bit, but out of curiosity, if you went through all of that trouble and even swapped power tubes, why did you decide to use different preamp tubes in the two amps?

 

[Metaltastic]

This...is true. I ordered a Mesa slip cover a few months ago, but this was when I was working my 9-5 at the bank. Mesa first sent the slip cover to Arkansas (no joke) and then after I got that straightened out they came to my apartment, but required a signature. I was at work during the hours that they came, so I never got my stupid slip cover. I should probably check my credit card statements to see if they ever refunded me.

Hahahaha, **** dude, that's rough (Arkansas? :lol: ) And knowing Mesa, I'd imagine it set you back like $40!

Thanks a lot CJG! And Silverwulf, laziness to be perfectly honest In recorded tests I've done I've found preamp tubes really don't make that much of a difference, it's just a matter of slight differences in flavor (unless you're going from absolute crap to good, of course) - out of curiosity though Juan, what tubes do you have in your Roadster's pre?

 

[mikey383]

I actually prefer the Recto out of those clips. The Roadster sounds like it's coming from another room to me.

 

[mikey383]

In recorded tests I've done I've found preamp tubes really don't make that much of a difference, it's just a matter of slight differences in flavor (unless you're going from absolute crap to good, of course)

According to the EL34 vs. 6L6 thread, there's not much difference in the recorded tone of different types of power tubes either.

 

[Nitrobattery]

In recorded tests I've done I've found preamp tubes really don't make that much of a difference, it's just a matter of slight differences in flavor (unless you're going from absolute crap to good, of course)

According to the EL34 vs. 6L6 thread, there's not much difference in the recorded tone of different types of power tubes either.

There's an incredible difference. I think the main thing is most people record clips at close to "bedroom" volumes. If you're not cranking up the amp, you're not going to hear much of a difference in power tube saturation....because there isn't any. I tend to find that the people who say they don't hear much of a difference aren't in bands. In a band situation when you've got the amp cranked up, the difference is incredible. Just different brands of the same type of tube will sound incredibly different. At least to me, power tubes are just as important as preamp tubes and have as much if not more effect on your tone than preamp tubes.


As far as preamp tubes go, you can can have a lot of fun mixing and matching different preamp tubes in different positions and they can have a pretty incredible impact on your tone. Hotter tubes can add a lot of crunch, where milder tubes can really eliminate a lot of high end fizz.

Marcus,

I've got Mullard ECC83's and Tung Sol ECC803 S Gold's in the Roadster. I've also got the opportunity to buy some NOS Mullards off of the store's amp repair guy. I'm definitely going to go for it and give them a shot.

 

[Silverwulf]

I'm more picky about my preamp tubes than I am my power tubes.

I finally got a chance to listen to the clips, and I like the 2 Channel Recto clips better. I prefer more sizzle in the mids, and I can view that sound cutting through better in a live situation to me. Again, just goes to show that tone is all subjective... 8)

 

[Nitrobattery]

I'm more picky about my preamp tubes than I am my power tubes.

I finally got a chance to listen to the clips, and I like the 2 Channel Recto clips better. I prefer more sizzle in the mids, and I can view that sound cutting through better in a live situation to me. Again, just goes to show that tone is all subjective... 8)

I'm not really fond of those Roadster clips either. Those were the settings Marcus uses on his Dual Rec, but they don't really translate to the darker voiced Roadster. Here are some slightly better representations of what the Roadster sounds like.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7670485

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7685134

 

[Silverwulf]

I'm not really fond of those Roadster clips either. Those were the settings Marcus uses on his Dual Rec, but they don't really translate to the darker voiced Roadster.

Oh yeah, I dial in my 2 Channels different than those clips, and my buddy dials in his Roadster to sound a lot different than those clips, too. I was just saying of those clips, I preferred the 2 Channel. The Roadster is definitely a darker sounding amp overall.

I like the 2 Channels and the Roadster/Road King. I've contemplated picking up a Road King (again) about a million times now, just never have.

 

[Silverwulf]

Here are some slightly better representations of what the Roadster sounds like.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7670485

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7685134

I like the second clip better of those two.

 

[fluff191]

I like the 2 Channel better as well.