FX LOOP BYPASS SOUNDS GREAT!

But can someone explain to me why hard bypassing the FX LOOP suddenly added more harmonic distortion and zing to my tone?

I don't fully understand the reasoning provided in the manual?

And I certainly don't want to be fooled by fletcher munson effect whereby things that initially appear louder suddenly sounds better.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I do like the output balance of all channels and the solo feature

Bypassing the loop removes some "stuff" from the circuit, including the master volume control and solo boost function. Taking out the extra "stuff" provides a more direct signal path between the preamp and power section.

Indeed. I virtually always play straight in. Tone that never fails.

Not so fast!

Sure, it is possible that bypassing the effects section of the V (Master Volume and Solo Boost) features of the V may be beneficial to some people. I find that the Master Volume and Solo boost features are important to me while playing live....even without any "effects" in the loop.

Just my .02

Book says turning the loop off at the footswitch is bypassing the loop.

MBJunkie said:

Not so fast!

Sure, it is possible that bypassing the effects section of the V (Master Volume and Solo Boost) features of the V may be beneficial to some people. I find that the Master Volume and Solo boost features are important to me while playing live....even without any "effects" in the loop.

Just my .02

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I kinda felt the same way too at first...but the gain and harmonic benefits I hear by "Hard Bypassing" the FX just made me search for alternative ways to achieve the master volume and solo features. (BTW the foot switch "bypass" doesn't seem to create the same sound affect as the Hard bypass.)

Its pretty easy to get all the channels balanced volume wise with each individual master control. As for Solo...I've been relying more on my guitar tone controls lately. In fact I can't believe I've spent all these years basically neglecting them by leaving them in the full on position and making my AMP do all the work.

So I essentially dial in my AMP sound with my volume at 7-8 on my guitar volume. Get a great sound there and then Voila..need boost for a solo..roll my finger on the volume and I get instant gain.

Its so simple, works so perfectly that again I can't believe I've never had the spark to do it earlier. Moreover, I often times now go from a clean to a higher gain crunch just by using the the volume knob on the guitar. Again its a matter of setting the amp with the volume on the guitar where you'll be playing most. Do a quick shot up in volume on the guitar, tweak just a bit more to get a good balance and yer good to go.

In just an afternoon, I've basically dialed in the sounds I'll ever need in the three available channels. I don't think the V was intended as a digital modeler where you keep switching 50 positions during the course of a live performance. But what it does do..is give you a plethora of choices and options, so those three you need are the three you really want to hear without having to settle for second best.

oh and I'm not and will unlikely ever use any effects in my signal chain. Maybe the odd delay or wah but after a decade and a bit of several rack mount effects processors and all the nonsense that put me through, (noise, midi programming, cable spaghetti, random acts of phantom crap)...I can honestly say that its just so liberating to be connected direct to an amp and let that speak for itself.



Just my viewpoint...

thalweg........I agree with you completely in the use of your guitar volume knob to control volumes. I do that too......however, my experience is that while using these great techniques while playing live.....I still find value in the solo boost of the V, but that is just me.

Yes, I do agree that I am in heaven with the sound of my guitar directly through the V without any effects. That is how I have been playing my V since I purchased it about 1-1/2 years ago. The V doesn't require any effects to sound great IMO.

Very refreshing thread indeed thalweg.....and enjoy your new MkV! :mrgreen:

The only thing I play up front is a compressor pedal that is set to a very transparent setting. I then have the chorus and delay in the loop. Which I don't always use but its there for songs that I and other people like to hear it in.

I havn't messed with the hard bypass yet as I haven't had the need.

thalweg said:

oh and I'm not and will unlikely ever use any effects in my signal chain. Maybe the odd delay or wah but after a decade and a bit of several rack mount effects processors and all the nonsense that put me through, (noise, midi programming, cable spaghetti, random acts of phantom crap)...I can honestly say that its just so liberating to be connected direct to an amp and let that speak for itself.

Just my viewpoint...

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Yes! My experience with my former rack was the same. It was easy to set up but I got noise almost every other time I took it out that required time to figure out (usually a cable touching a power cable or a ground loop). Haven't regretted ditching the rack since I got the Mark V.

I took my Mark V from the trade to the gig. Kept it simple and plugged my guitar->tuner->Mark V (fx loop hard bypass) and it sounded amazing and quiet. Had my noise gate on hand in case I got some feedback during sound check but no need. Next time I fired it up I activated the loop to use the master/solo feature and I agree the tone isn't as "alive" as it was. I have been thinking of bybassing the loop again and using channel 2's Mark I mode and use that with a higher volume as a lead channel. It does feel good to use a head again. \m/

See my post from a while ago: http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50629

I was very surprised to find that many here feel there is little difference between the Loop settings (on/hard bypass).

When using the loop from time to time, I struggle with change in sound AND feel...

arvee72:

FWIW....there were only six people that participated in your poll out of the many thousands of V owners.....so I would take the results with a grain of salt. There may be many MkV owners that prefer to play in "hard bypass".

For me......I need the solo boost feature while playing live (band rehearsal or gig). My approach is to engage the loop (even though I don't use effects through the loop)....set up sounds in all 3 channels to my liking, and I am good to go! I am very pleased with the tones that I get out of the V with the loop engaged.

I think it is great that the V offers the "hard bypass" to the loop for those that prefer that setting. It allows for the individual player to set up the amp to the best of their liking!

MkV.....choices, choices, choices......none are bad. Great Amp!

MBJunkie said:

arvee72:

FWIW....there were only six people that participated in your poll out of the many thousands of V owners.....so I would take the results with a grain of salt. There may be many MkV owners that prefer to play in "hard bypass".

For me......I need the solo boost feature while playing live (band rehearsal or gig). My approach is to engage the loop (even though I don't use effects through the loop)....set up sounds in all 3 channels to my liking, and I am good to go! I am very pleased with the tones that I get out of the V with the loop engaged.

I think it is great that the V offers the "hard bypass" to the loop for those that prefer that setting. It allows for the individual player to set up the amp to the best of their liking!

MkV.....choices, choices, choices......none are bad. Great Amp!

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Sure, there may be many Mark 5 owners out there using Hard Bypass, but judging from the lack of response to this (and a handful of other threads like this), it seems that, for one reason or another, not many folks are interested in discussing the topic.

I use my Mark 5 in both modes, with and without a rack loop switcher and a variety digital and analog effects. I'm well aware of the usefulness of engaging the loop, but isn't it a bummer (for me) that it changes the tone and feel dramatically (for MY playing/rig/ears)?

arvee72 said:

I use my Mark 5 in both modes, with and without a rack loop switcher and a variety digital and analog effects. I'm well aware of the usefulness of engaging the loop, but isn't it a bummer that it changes the tone and feel dramatically (for playing/rig/ears)?

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I dunno. Guess it just depends on what your needs are. When playing by myself, recording, or just basking in teh tone, it's nice to switch off the loop, but when I'm playing live in a mix with keyboards, another guitarist, crashing cymbals, 4-part vocal harmonies, etc, I'm not hearing that much of a difference, and the crowd certainly isn't noticing (hell, they probably don't even notice that there even is guitar half the time, haha)

Vogelsong said:

Book says turning the loop off at the footswitch is bypassing the loop.

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It bypasses the loop itself, but leaves the rest of the circuit (which includes the master volume and solo boost) in the signal path. Hard-bypassing with the switch on the back removes everything.

My experience is the same as SBG200.

One thing that I do find important when the loop is engaged is to obtain a nice balance between channel volumes and master volume. I typically have my channel volumes set somewhere between 9 and 12 o'clock with my master set around 9 - 11 o'clock. My solo boost is usually set quite low (around 9 o'clock).

I never set my channel volumes very high and barely crack open the master volume or have my master volume set very high and barely crack open the channel volumes.

If you are having trouble obtaining great tones with the loop engaged.....you may give this a try if you haven't already. Also, I am sure you are already doing this, but definitely work with the eq settings of each channel. Chances are you will want to tweak them differently with the loop engaged compared to hard bypass. I hope this helps you some arvee72.

For other posters.......while it is true you can disable the effects loop via the footswitch.....that is not the same thing as "hard bypassing" the effects loop based on my understanding.

Think of it like this.....if you use a "non hard bypass" stomp box effect in the loop or in front of any amp.....you can disable the effect by kicking it out, but it will still have the inherent circuitry in the signal path which may have a noticeable impact to your sound compared to not having an effect in the sound chain at all. However, if you use a "hard bypass" effect stomp box in the loop or in front of any amp...in theory....it takes the inherent circuit of the effect out of the signal path by "hard bypassing" when the effect is footswitched out.

The "hard bypass" switch in the back of the V takes the entire effects loop circuitry out of the sound path. The "loop engaged option" on the back off the V (while footswitched off)takes whatever effects you have in the loop out of the signal path, but not the loop circuitry of the amp itself. At least I think this is what is going on.

Hope this helps.

Unless I´m using some fx in the loop, I always use the hard bypass setting. I just sounds better to me and the amp responds quicker and is chunkier. This is especially true at lower volumes in my experience. At higher volumes I find the difference less noticable.

Bullen said:

Unless I´m using some fx in the loop, I always use the hard bypass setting. I just sounds better to me and the amp responds quicker and is chunkier. This is especially true at lower volumes in my experience. At higher volumes I find the difference less noticable.

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+1

I recently revisited my V in hard bypass while playing alone. I must say that I really liked the sounds that I was getting from the V in hard bypass...no question! In fact, I would probably choose this setting at home practice and recording sessions!!

However, for live performances, I will continue to engage the "effects loop" to enable the solo boost feature which I find to be extremely benefitial in a live situation.

I agree hard by pass sounds better. Ch1 Fat Gain 1oclock, master 930, Pres 1oclock, Treb 2 oclock, Mid 12 oclock, Bass at 1 oclock, Bridge/middle p/u 45 or 90 W. Hit hard by pass after playing with loop on for about 5min. Huge tone diff IMO. Bypass so much live. give me huge smile.,,,,, I don't notice so much at lower vol. Push the amp alittle bit it just comes to life..WOW! :lol: Also no eq. pre at 11 oclock

Not until I bought an amp with loop bypass did I realize what I wasn't missing. I have absolutely no desire to use loops again just because things sound so good and feel so good without effects.

I was always meaning to get an effects bypass mod on my Studio Preamp. That thing sounded divine with reverb and effects running through the signal. I can't imagine how good it'd sound without either in the loop.

Any of you Mark V people did a reverb bypass mod to further increase the tonal bliss?