Black Shadow VS-12 50 Watt Opinions

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jeff5

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Hey folks. I had another thread on a cabinet I'm looking at so I apologize if this is a bit redundant. This one is more about the speakers =D.

The cabinet is a half back metal grill with C90s on top and most likely the VS-12 50 watt on the bottom. I play a ton of hard rock and metal, although some cleans and other stuff so I like versatility. I'd like to get folks opinions on this combo of speakers and the half back cabinet, especially for heavier music. I have no problem replacing the bottom speakers if I need to either, but would like to give the VS-12's a shot.

Thanks!
Jeff
 
I mostly play metal and occasionally cleans with my JP-2C through a vertical metal grill Mesa 2x12 halfback that has a VS-12 in it, so hopefully I can be of some assistance.

A lot of guys don't seem to care much for the humble VS-12 because its not a powerful nor bright speaker. Mine certainly isn't. It's smooth, subdued and mellow, and it can easily be overpowered when improperly mixed with higher wattage speakers. In your cab's current configuration, you're probably not really hearing the VS-12s over the C90s at all, so your 4x12 halfback is essentially acting more like a raised open-back C90 2x12 cabinet rather than a proper 4x12. IMO, the VS-12 isn't suited for use in a closed-back cab. They simply don't bite hard enough or push enough air, and for that reason, I don't think you're getting the most out of that speaker or your cab. Unfortunately, this is why VS-12s often get written off as a mediocre speaker that should be automatically replaced.

However, I believe the VS-12 has its place, specifically in the open-back upper position of a Mesa halfback cab like yours. They belong there. That is their niche. Here's why. The VS-12 is a quiet speaker, so putting it in an open back position where it sounds louder and more present makes sense. Having the quieter speaker in the louder position and the louder speaker in the quieter position will have a balancing effect and benefit the overall tone. And because there's no harsh upper-mid spike, the VS-12 is particularly suited for angling up towards your face without the icepick effect. It just adds some fullness to the crunchier, beefier speakers doing the heavy lifting in the closed position down below while keeping things nice and pleasant. In this application, they work extremely well.

But you will likely need a pair of powerful speakers with some bite in the closed bottom to complement your VS-12s if you intend on playing metal. Obviously, you'll want to try your C90s in the bottom first. Keep in mind that in doing this, your cab will be a bit darker now, so you may need to adjust your amp's EQ back to taste. If you like the C90's crunch tone in the closed position, then you're done. But you're still not feeling it, if the cab could use more aggression, consider swapping your C90s for something like V30s, instead. Personally, I prefer maximum bite out of my closed cab speakers, so V30s are my go-to.

For my 2x12 halfback, I currently run it with the VS-12 in the open top and a V30 in the closed bottom. With a JP-2C, this combination works nicely with both high gain tones and pristine cleans, and I'm extremely picky when it comes to speakers. When I bought my 2x12 off Craigslist for $75, it had the VS-12 in the bottom and a destroyed Jensen up top. I replaced the Jensen with a Chinese V30 I had lying around and it was WAY too bright, and the VS-12 was completely drowned out. Swapping the speaker positions did the trick. It's a great sounding cab now, and this experience helped me understand why these cabs were built as halfbacks in the first place.
 
Audiokill said:
the VS-12 has its place, specifically in the open-back upper position of a Mesa halfback cab like yours. They belong there. That is their niche. Here's why. The VS-12 is a quiet speaker, so putting it in an open back position where it sounds louder and more present makes sense. Having the quieter speaker in the louder position and the louder speaker in the quieter position will have a balancing effect and benefit the overall tone.

+1

Audiokill summed it up well. Really can't speak for metal (more familiar w/hard rock, heavy blues) or the VS-12 per say... but did take the same approach with a recent vertical cab reclamation project. It was a simple closed back 2x12 box to begin with, but after reading other posts here about halfback verts and the pairing of speakers I went that route. Opened the top and used a less efficient Eminence Lil Texas paired an EVM 12L in the sectioned off closed back bottom. Also wired it for mono (parallel) and stereo.

While l have an assortment of cabs 2x10 w/ G10Ns, Mesa 1x12 EVM and Recto 30, which I dig, the balance and tonal blend in this vert 2x12 sets it apart from the others.
 
I have been using the Mesa VS-12 "Vintage" 50 watt speaker, off and on, since 1990. My first Mesa 4x12 had a pair of these VS-12s in the sealed lower section, along with MC-90s in the open top section. This VS-12 is the speaker that always got mic'd at live shows and while recording our rehearsals. I have always appreciated the smoother tone that it produces and felt that this characteristic makes it better suited for close mic'ing.
Fast forward about 20 years. I now have 4 Mesa 4x12 cabs. While doing a little bit of tone chasing, I reconfigured 2 of them. One of them is now loaded with 4 of the Vintage 50 watt VS-12 units. The top half, is now sealed. You might think that it would sound muddy or dull, however, with the right amp in the right setting, it works fine. It's more like "dark and smouldering". I run it with a MkIII. The mids are fine for soloing and enhance musicality of the plain strings, and the tones from wound strings seem to float out into the room with just enough edginess to capture the ear. I used this during a jam that took place in a living room that's been converted to a music room. Even the nit picky bassist felt obliged to issue a compliment. I speculate that this "all VS-12" configuration would work out nicely in a small club, as well. Iron fist in a velvet glove.
 
I appreciate the feedback guys. I actually did just buy the cabinet and a Mark IV, they were a package deal. I have not tried the Mark IV through the Mesa cabinet yet (I need help getting it to my basement) but did run it through my Friedman 4X12 which is a great cabinet and HOLY COW. It just rips.

I have no problem replacing the speakers if I have to. I know that the bones of the cabinet are fantastic and they don't make the metal grills anymore. I may also see about building a closed back piece for the upper portion if I need to. I know some folks pretty good at wood working that can help. Mesa said they don't make the closed back portion for the top.

Jeff
 
I had a chance to get the cab down stairs and use it with the Mark IV. The Mark sounded great with my Friedman cab, but sound amazing with the Mesa cabinet. I still need to pop it open to see what speakers are in the bottom but the cabinet didn't seem mellow or subdued! It darn near ripped my face off LOL! I'll probably take a look at what's in inside in the next few weeks or so.
 
To seal the upper back, I used what I believe is 3/4" plywood, although it actually measures at 23/32". Raw and unfinished plywood- Ugly, but it works. Cabinet grade multi-ply would look nicer and be far less prone to warping. It would be a pretty straightforward project if you decided to cover it with Tolex or vinyl. It sounds like you've got a good plan. Congratulations on scoring the cab.
 
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