IIC+ Simul: Two different versions?

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Freefall

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So Mike B. finished work on my amp and called me 8) . He mentioned something that I hadn't heard previously... that at some point during IIC+ production they changed a couple of capacitor values on the Simuls that made them significantly brighter (he used the term "heinously bright"), and asked me which way I preferred the amp. I didn't realize there were two "versions". Anyone heard of this?
 
Yes indeed, I have my DR C+ coming back today in which I had that bright removed. It was horrible. Even with the presence all the way off you could not dial it out.
Some people like it though. Most don't. I was told that someone over at Mesa liked it that way. I think it was the same guy that assisted in the C+ mode of the Mark V.
Goes to show how peoples perspective of what sounds good can differ.
 
My original HRG C+ is on its way back from Mesa also. Mike said that mine had like a super bright mod on it. He said it was ridiculously bright. He did say in fact that it was factory installed that way though. He said it suprised him a bit. I always thought the stock 60/100 C+ was bright enough for me, so I asked him to remove it.
 
Sounds like Mike B has been busy :). I had him change it to the less bright version, because he said it would be like the HG I have, which I'm quite happy with. Sounds like there are a lot of little variations.
 
Does everybody have an amp at mesa? I should be getting mine back today, and mike said there was a cap added to my amp that wasn't stock, but if he clipped it off, the tone would change quite a bit. We both agreed that it sounded great with it, so he left it and put tape on it in case I wanted to remove it. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the bright reduction though... waiting for the ups guy.

scott
 
If I recall correctly, Mike Bendinelli told me that the bright reduction mod was only for the Simul-Class amps. Mine is a 60/100 watter so he told me none of those was produced with the "brighter" version.
 
gts,
that is to simulate a "Simul-Class tone" with a 60/100 watter.
You need to run the amp in 100 watt and use the 4-ohm tap with an 8-ohm speaker.

But, as far as I understood from Mike, no 60/100 watter had the brighter version from factory.
Regards
 
The problem with the bright mod is that you have to turn the presence down to 0 and then start going for the treble control. Since this is
a cascading gain stage amp if greatly effects the drive. So to me it's better to remove that bright mod an leave the gain stages alone.
If you want it brighter turn your presence to 8-9. I prefer to roll the presence up until it gets crispy sounding then roll it off just a touch. It usually ends up around
the 3 range and treble at about 7.
 
igfraso said:
If I recall correctly, Mike Bendinelli told me that the bright reduction mod was only for the Simul-Class amps. Mine is a 60/100 watter so he told me none of those was produced with the "brighter" version.


That is why he said that it surprised him so much. He said that it had the part in it that gave the simul C+'s the bright mod. He said that it was the original solder job, so it was originally installed at the factory. He also said it made the amp obnoxiously bright.

So I had a one off, factory oops. He put it to stock for me.
 
The Simul brightness reduction mod can be done by substituting the 60/100 capacitors into the Simul circuit. http://www.grailtone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9999 I don't know if this is what Mike was talking about. I do know that the early 1985 models are a bit brighter with more perceived gain.
 
gts said:
I was focusing on the first line of BB's quote:
"The 4 Ohm taps lower the the treble and presence output a bit and lower the output slightly."

I understand about running a 60/100 C+ in 100 watt mode and using the 4ohm tap smooths the lead channel it out (making it behave closer to a Simul).
But thought the above would apply to all C+'s to reduce their brightness a bit. Apologies if this is incorrect.

Hey gts!
Maybe you are right. I didn't want to contradict you.

I just remember that Mike B. told me: 100 W on an 8 ohm tap is "more or less" like a 60 W on a 4 ohm tap.
I just wanted to emphazise that you needed 100 W on a 4 ohm tap to make a 100/60 sound like a Simul-Class.

So I apologize if it came accross the wrong way. :(
Regards
Daniel
 
My orginal long head DRG do sound more harsh and bright then the other drg i had, alittel more gainy even .

Its serieal nr is 13999 and it says 1985 on the id card that came with it, would it be safe to say that it is one later ones that sounded brighter ?
 
How do I check to see if mine is this? I am often battling with the presence and even used to turn it to zero, could someone post a pic of the cap and explanation?
 
Masterof1angel said:
How do I check to see if mine is this? I am often battling with the presence and even used to turn it to zero, could someone post a pic of the cap and explanation?

Don't get too caught up in this game. I have a DRG from 10/84 with the brightness reduction mod, that can sound just like my 2/85 DRG, which is bone stock. It takes a pull of the Volume 1 knob and a slight presence adjustment. There is not a night and day difference, and I play EVM-12L speakers, which will tell the truth, like it or not. :twisted:
 
Am I missing something or did some odd deva vu thing happen in this thread with the last three (ah six) posts?
 
Most probably, His Highness and the other 7 brothers, did not have the Bright Reduction Mod.
What guitar and pickups were used to test these amps? What cabinet and speakers?

"So it was that I came to be the obsessive/compulsive owner of no less than 8 of the II C+ Simul-Class™, Reverb (non-graphic) heads. I hand picked these as being the best sounding amps - for me - out of the thousands of II C+ we made. Out of these eight amps I immediately found my favorite - which I dubbed “His Highness the C-ness” and which I used as a reference model to have our Chief Tech and Archival Guru Michael Bendinelli, copy exactly on the other 7 amps. Everything was measured and scrutinized (pot values, resistors, caps, transformers swapped, etc.) and duplicated, and in the end… all 8 sounded alike.
Regardless, His Highness was my golden reference for MARK II C+ Tone and our R&D reference amp for many MARK Series amps to follow, including the MARK IV.
Over the next two decades I found the need to part with some of these magic amps for studio gear and such and always I gave my close friends first crack at these – but His Highness remains to this day a mysterious, sweet-singing, fire-breathing beast of an amp."
 
Hey, who knows? Maybe I got lucky and wound up with one of those Magical, Mystical DR amps. And to think, I went and trashed the thing by having Mike B. add a tone-sucking EQ to it..... how disrespectful of me... :lol:
 
Hahaha! I have blind faith (no pun intended :D ) in Mike Bendinelli's advice.
He has never mislead me or disappointed me.

Mike and his wife are the nicest people you could wish for.
 
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