Mesa Boogie: Boogie 4x10 cab with the JP2C

[Doug Doppler]

I saw this earlier. That 410 cab looks to have some issues there. Hint: it sounds better when the cab is making contact with the floor. Raising it up made it much brighter. Sound better by itself than it does with combining other cabs with it. Interesting sound no doubt. Was thinking a change in two of the 10's in each cab but have not decided if the G10 Vintage or something else would be ideal. I can just mod one cabinet and it it does not pan out, I can put the originals back in. Hopefully I do not damage the grill when doing such.

Hey @bandit2013

First off, you bring up a REALLY interesting point. I'm friends with Dave from IsoAcoustics and there is a LONG ongoing conversation we've had about coupling, and per his business de-coupling speaker enclosures from the surfaces upon which they sit. I picked up a Boogie 2x12 vertical cab last night and the now previous owner and I embarked on a similar conversation. Rick Hunolt one of the founding members from Exodus SWEARS by taking the casters off 4x12 Recto cabs to maximize coupling. Per last nights coversation as we were rolling my new cab to my van, I was like, "the last thing I want to do at a venue is wrestle with the casters loading on and loading off!"...

Two key points here that warrant a proper demo - how much is the cabinet getting bassier, how much the does surface on which they're place impact which frequencies are resonant. Secondly, and arguably the more important thing, how many guitar players (not pointing fingers here) don't actually know what their speakers are doing because they are not on axis with the dust cap. Once you start mic'ing things up this can be a rude awakening. Ditto with juxtaposing Cab Clone IR outs vs. the sound of the cabs and tweaking tones...

Per the discussion at hand, I started with just the 4x10 and was a bit, "Meh, I need to put some Celestions in there..." after A/B'ing the 4x10 while still on the floor. But... then I got all fancy and tried one of the Fillmore cabinets the 4x10 and was like, "Wow, THIS is cool!" and grabbed the Radial CabLink so I could get the impedance right. For me, getting all three cabinets on axis is a must hence why I hiked the 4x10 up. I'm REALLY curious can you hear a big difference between your top and bottom cabs when they're stacked and/or have you tried mic'ing them up to hear a definitive A/B test?!?

Per swapping0 the speakers in mine are rear mount and yours should be to given how consistent Boogie tends to be, which means you should have zero issues getting the new ones in

A couple of suggestions for anyone reading this that has yet to swap speakers (I traded a Marshall 4x12 for the Boogie Rectifier 2x12 Horizontal and had to swap the speakers with another Marshall cab per getting the stock G12T75 quad back into the traded cab)...
a. Start by taking photos
b. Have a small glass on hand to deposit all your screws/lugs/washers etc. - they DO sprout legs
c. If one does go missing in spite of said glass, look on the back of the drivers since they're magnetic
d. Use the right sized screw driver if you're not a power drill kinda person. I have a favorite one that has a big fat handle and my power tool skill is not great enough to prevent me from stripping screws
e. Double check the wiring with your photos before closing up the back of your cab


Cheers ~ Doug

 

[bandit2013]

I only bought up the coupling thing with the 410 based on observations I made with a similar cabinet. Mine are new and probably not broken in yet. Just one on the floor, no casters to remove as the cabinet does not have any. It is beefy sounding. When I did the full stack of the two 410s the tone changed considerably. I was concerned if both cabs were plugged into the amp. Sure, the JP2C changes tone when loaded at 4 ohms (drops in treble to some extent). I even placed a 410 on top of a vertical 212 and ran both of them and then by themselves. I even ran the two 410 side by side with both on the floor. The 410 will lose its low end when moved off the floor. Sure I have I experiment with this and that and will even lay on the floor if I need too.

As for the Recto standard slant front 412 or even the Recto Vertical 212 cab, it does not seem to make a difference if the casters are in place or removed. I actually prefer the cabs with the casters. Not sure why. At least they are removable if you need to make the speaker and amp combination more stable. Casters will allow the amp and cabinet roll away if there is a slope on the surface.

Oh, what is better than using a photo to check your wiring, use a multi meter. Plug in a speaker cable to the jack and measure resistance to confirm it is not an open circuit or that the resistance is where it should be. Knowing the resistance of the speaker first is helpful. Celestion speakers do not measure 8 ohms, they are more like 7.6 ohms. Voice coil resistance may vary from model to model.

Not sure if there is anything to gain if I were to change to the G10 Vintage except for the power handling. Supposed to have the same Voice coil of the V30 so I suppose the characteristic may be a bit different than the Creambacks. I may just buy 4 of them and replace the speakers in one cabinet and compare it to the other. May even do a Vintage + Creamback combination. Not sure if and when I will make the swap or get the speakers, not may places have them in stock.

 

[Doug Doppler]

I only bought up the coupling thing with the 410 based on observations I made with a similar cabinet. Mine are new and probably not broken in yet. Just one on the floor, no casters to remove as the cabinet does not have any. It is beefy sounding. When I did the full stack of the two 410s the tone changed considerably. I was concerned if both cabs were plugged into the amp. Sure, the JP2C changes tone when loaded at 4 ohms (drops in treble to some extent). I even placed a 410 on top of a vertical 212 and ran both of them and then by themselves. I even ran the two 410 side by side with both on the floor. The 410 will lose its low end when moved off the floor. Sure I have I experiment with this and that and will even lay on the floor if I need too.

As for the Recto standard slant front 412 or even the Recto Vertical 212 cab, it does not seem to make a difference if the casters are in place or removed. I actually prefer the cabs with the casters. Not sure why. At least they are removable if you need to make the speaker and amp combination more stable. Casters will allow the amp and cabinet roll away if there is a slope on the surface.

Oh, what is better than using a photo to check your wiring, use a multi meter. Plug in a speaker cable to the jack and measure resistance to confirm it is not an open circuit or that the resistance is where it should be. Knowing the resistance of the speaker first is helpful. Celestion speakers do not measure 8 ohms, they are more like 7.6 ohms. Voice coil resistance may vary from model to model.

Not sure if there is anything to gain if I were to change to the G10 Vintage except for the power handling. Supposed to have the same Voice coil of the V30 so I suppose the characteristic may be a bit different than the Creambacks. I may just buy 4 of them and replace the speakers in one cabinet and compare it to the other. May even do a Vintage + Creamback combination. Not sure if and when I will make the swap or get the speakers, not may places have them in stock.

Great info there, thanks for that

 

[mace]

When I play out and if we are on a ‘stage’* of any kind of wood I always remove the casters on the vertical 2x12. I do like the extra bit of umpf this gives. We play mostly hard rock, old school metal. The casters are super easy to take off and put on. I’m a bit of a dweeb and always have the cab slip cover on when laying the cab on it’s side to remove/install casters so the sides don’t get scuffed up. The removable casters are brilliant, IMHO.

*small time bar band, not playing in theaters and the like…just dive bars!

 

[Doug Doppler]

When I play out and if we are on a ‘stage’* of any kind of wood I always remove the casters on the vertical 2x12. I do like the extra bit of umpf this gives. We play mostly hard rock, old school metal. The casters are super easy to take off and put on. I’m a bit of a dweeb and always have the cab slip cover on when laying the cab on it’s side to remove/install casters so the sides don’t get scuffed up. The removable casters are brilliant, IMHO.

*small time bar band, not playing in theaters and the like…just dive bars!

Sounds fun. REALLY interesting to hear different people's takes on removing (or not removing) the casters. One of my 4x12 cabs is older and the casters do not like to come on or off after years of, um, casting, so that has been part of it. And trust the told, one of the venues I play is a small local bar, and rolling my cabs by the men's room and then pulling the casters off is not particularly appealing. Just sayin'

Cheers ~ Doug