Was looking at Celesiton Web and found this. 150W Red back

I started recording with the Red back so I can compare the OTR (Organic Timbre Rhapsody speaker). for some reason the Red does not record well. What I have to do is dial in a reference cabinet, say the Mesa Vertical 212 to dial in the EQ for each mic. When I can get a good representation of that on playback I will complete the task for the other speakers. I am still learning how to set up the recording gear, where to place mics and such. Sure the V30 has that tone tunnel or beaming effect at the center of the speaker. My goal is to get a realistic sound from a known cabinet and then go from there. Frist attempt recording the Red sounded like a thick blanket was over the amp. I will figure this out....

I will get the recording posted as I need to finish up on writing the review so I can post it. I now have the OTR speaker in stalled, Not bad out of box but will need some break in time before I can decide if it is a keeper. The Redback on the other hand will be going back into the Mark V as that one is so much fun to play though. Even though it has a bit of vintage voice to it, it just responds extremely well to my playing, improved pick attack and harmonics are incredible. Also it will take abuse of more power if you have it. Awesome speaker once broken in.

I posted in another thread three of the 2.5 inch speakers recorded using each mounted in a Mark V combo. Redback vs EV vs Organic Timbre

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74036

This is a fun speaker to use but at the moment it will be in storage as the Organic Timbre took over and that would be difficult to remove from the Mark V combo, sure I could take it out and did think about it... but the more I play though that OTR the more I love it. For the moment the Red back is back in its box waiting for another opportunity to come along.

Posting to subscribe. I've been thinking of a 1x12 combo that can take my Mark heads under power.

I've never met a combo tone I like, so it'd likely be a closed back cab, possibly Thiele or ported front to get something with some internal volume. I'd like to hear one in that widebody front ported cab.

GJgo said:

Posting to subscribe. I've been thinking of a 1x12 combo that can take my Mark heads under power.

I've never met a combo tone I like, so it'd likely be a closed back cab, possibly Thiele or ported front to get something with some internal volume. I'd like to hear one in that widebody front ported cab.

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The redback can take the beating of a 100W amp quite well. It does not have the top end one would expect though. If you are running this with a very bright amp it would work out as a single speaker solution. The red back has more of a vintage tone than the V30. There is a bit more presence in the RED than say the Cream back 75 but the midrange is quite dominant with this speaker. Perhaps I have not found the ideal cabinet for its use. If I had a wide body front ported cab I would have tried the RED in it. the Mesa 112 wide body I have is of the open back variety. If I ever get another 112 it will be a ways off as I would rather have another Vertical 212 cab.

I have a Seismic Audio 1x12 cab that is almost a perfect cube (17x15.5x17.75), so it's deeper than a traditional 1x12. The RedBack excels in that cab. I originally had it in a more traditional 1x12, but the deeper Seismic cab definitely gives the tone more depth. Unfortunately, only one amp head I own fits proportionally on the top. Even my Mark V head hangs off the sides a little. It's a quirky little cab, but the RedBack sounds like it was made for it. It's open back, too which adds to the depth of the tone. I've never had a Thiele cab, but I would bet the RedBack would be great in one of those, too, from what I've read and heard online.

I was surprised at how well this speaker sounded right out of the box. No regrets on buying it. My next speaker purchase will be an Organic Timbre. I want to compare one of those with my EVM 12L. Who knows? Maybe I'll wind up pairing them together. If so, that cab would handle literally anything.

I've only had 1 combo amp that I liked its tone and that was a Carvin Vai Legacy 2x12 combo. That amp could be closed back or open back with 2 V30s. But, that amp was just too difficult to get a low volume. It went from too quiet to too loud with just breathing on the volume knob. I gave up on combos after that. It was also heavy as lead.

Heavy as lead, sounds like the RA100 combo. But that amp sounds great. Loved the Mark III combo two. Mark V that I converted to combo is ok. There is something about open back speaker cab and clean the clean channel I prefer for some reason or another. OTR may sound closer to the EV classic lead as that also has a range up to 5k (-3dB) The Black label nearly takes it all the way to 7K but still pushing at 10K. That one works great with the OTR with the Mark V. JP it sounded a bit of a wet blanket. Will have to see how the two OTR sound in the 412 cab.

Celestion has recently added two more how power 12inch speakers. One is the F12-X200, full spectrum rated at 200W, and the other is the Neo 250 Copperback rated at 250W. That is interesting. Both of these claim not to add color to the tone. Wonder what they sound like as there are no sound files or reviews with sound content available.

Finally got a little time for some speaker swaps. I took my Redback out of that cube shaped cab. As the speaker broke in, I thought it got a bit darker. So, now it resides in a vintage 1x12. Will be gigging with it next week. Love this speaker!

I thought the Red back did a better job in open cab, more so than the V30 speaker in open back form. I will have to mess around with the one Red Back and see how it would work with the RA100.

However for those who have the open top, closed bottom 412 cabs, the EV up top and V30 in the bottom may be the best bet for some great tones. that is to assume that the bottom half of the cab has the same volume of the mesa horizontal 212 cab. That particular cab definitely has a tight bottom character to it and not flubby or soft. I have been swapping speakers in my Mark V combo so many times I forgot what was good and what was not. Settled on the EVM12L black label for the combo. (I have 6 of these speakers I had bought over the years. 4 of which are loaded in my old OS Recto 412 that required refurbishing). I had first thought that the MC90 paired up quite well with the V30, well the EV paired with the V30 sounds killer and you do not get the same issue you have with the MC90 when driving the amp hard. I have not had much luck with the MC90 speaker, for some reason they keep falling apart (dust cap coming off) or the voice coil crashes due to warping of the cone. I have yet to kill an EV speaker under any circumstances. Come to think of it I have not killed any V30 speakers. Almost every ALNICO speaker I have tried in the combo did not last very long. The Red Back was great too but a bit more vintage in tone than I wanted. That one would be tough to kill as well. I pushed extremely hard with the JP-2C, no breakup, no burning smell, no flub, actually it sounded killer once you really push it.

The "vintage" single 12 cab I put the Redback in is open back. I gigged with the cab and my Mark V last weekend and had the best tone I've ever had with that band. Truly amazing!

That is good to hear. I may swap out the OTR in the 1x12 open back cab with the Redback I have on reserve (in its original box it came in). I believe that will do a better job as a single speaker with the JP-2C than the OTR. I could always opt to swap the EV in the oversized 1x12 and use that as well but the Mark V combo sits on that just right since the Mesa widebody 1x12 when used on carpet tends to make the stack a bit unstable.

So I picked up a vertical 2x12 Recto cab to sit under my IIC++. I'm not super happy with the combination- the cab is very bright, and lacks bottom end compared to my recto 4x12 cabs. I've thought about swapping the V30s out for Redbacks to lessen the brightness & improve the bottom end- from what I've read / heard this may be the answer since the RBs seem to be darker & bottom heavy..?

My other thought is to load a pair of G12-65s into it.. This amp does sound good with Greenbacks.

GJgo said:

So I picked up a vertical 2x12 Recto cab to sit under my IIC++. I'm not super happy with the combination- the cab is very bright, and lacks bottom end compared to my recto 4x12 cabs. I've thought about swapping the V30s out for Redbacks to lessen the brightness & improve the bottom end- from what I've read / heard this may be the answer since the RBs seem to be darker & bottom heavy..?

My other thought is to load a pair of G12-65s into it.. This amp does sound good with Greenbacks.

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Is the vertical 212 new or used? I love the Vertical 212 cab with the JP-2C but it is more of a IIC+ at best. Not sure if the IIC++ is brighter or more power. Redback has more of a vintage flavor more than the V30. Probably much darker than the Greenbacks. I would almost suggest a set of EV speakers but the Black labels I have are not forgiving at the top end and will out shine the V30 anyday. I was impressed with running just the single RedBack speaker with the JP-2C though. I could not get the cone to break up at all. It just took the abuse and I really cranked the channel volume up beyond what I would normally use. That speaker does quite well when pushed. It does have a 2 inch voice coil and it should have a bit more bottom end to it. It may even work out blended with another speaker but what would be appropriate? I have not given up on the Red Back just yet but I am not currently using mine at the moment. Not sure what to recommend to be honest.

I got the vert 212 used but in mint condition. It sounds amazing with my Rectifier, but thin with my old Marks (compared to a 4x12).

Tonally, would you say the redback is more like a greenback, or a creamback, or..?

I would say neither. I felt the Creamback G12H75 was more subdued in the bottom end in a 412 format. I have even tried them in a Horizontal 212 and was not overly impressed in that cab. No top end at all, and I would suspect the Vertical to be similar as it has the same volume. However I have ready many like using the Creamback on the top and the V30 on the bottom to cut any ear piercings on stage. I actually like my Verticals with the stock speakers and I am not fond of overly bright speakers. Perhaps I am not dialing my amps in right. Not sure. However they can be bright as some have stated. I have heard greenbacks before but mostly played clean or with a soft clip in a Vox 212 amp, not sure the exact model but was impressed with how those sounded. I would say the Redback is much closer to the Celestion Cream Alnico 90W but does not get swamped with the high gain distorted signal. At lower levels the Redback would track a Celestion Cream Alnico perfectly in tone and temperament. When Pushed it is much closer to a V30 tone but does not have the top end shear the V30 can produce. It is more choked off. I have not fully broken in the Redback since I got it. I did run it for a short time in the Mark V combo. Very nice clean sound, that was impressive. It did seem to take away what I liked on CH2 with the EV speaker. I will have to revisit this speaker again and see how it performs with my other amps. I have an RA100 combo I have been seeking a speaker replacements. The Alnico Crèam 90W speakers are not all that great when paired up in an open combo. Sounds better with only one paired up with a Celestion Creamback as it provided more loudness combined. Did try that blend in the horizontal cab and it was a bust. Too dark and muddy. The attempt to find a speaker to work in a cabinet that was tuned for the V30 may be difficult. Since everyone has different expectations when it comes to speakers, it may work for you. I no longer have the recordings so it is hard to go back for a reference in tone. It would probably work with the RA100 or other applications. A friend of mine said that speaker was more accurate for the ACDC tone we were after at the time, but that was not my only goal.

bandit2013 said:

... I did run it for a short time in the Mark V combo. Very nice clean sound, that was impressive...

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HUGE +1 with the RedBack and the Mark V. Best clean tone I've ever had in Tweed mode on channel 1.