Anybody get the TC-100 yet?

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I knew this was going to come out sooner or later. The tone of the TC-100 does seem to be brighter than the TC-50. It could be related to the power tubes or the preamp tubes. I did change the two 12AX7 tubes V3 and V4 as I started hearing a ping when channel changing. I think it was V3 as it was noisy on the tap and caused some noise if I touched it. Had to pull the chassis out so I could confirm if it was V3 or related to the clean channel V1 and V2. I had similar thoughts on the TC-50 when I first got it, seemed too bright. Now the TC-100 is getting brighter on the gain channels. I isolated the two tubes I pulled so I can put them back in. I do have 10 new Mesa tubes available so I may end up replacing all of the preamp tubes anyways. I had a similar issue with the JP-2C when I got it too. When amps end up on the back of a truck, bouncing around and what ever jarring it may endure when shipped ground could be one issue (more so a problem with power tubes than preamp tubes). At least the box the amp came in is in perfect shape so it was not dropped. At the moment, I think I like the TC-50 more than the TC-100. One thing to note, I have used it with the power soak for a while and when I went back to the 100W it sounded really good. Now it seems to be on the bright side. Not brittle though. Think of a Fender tone with 6L6 on how much brilliance and chime you can get with it on the cleanest channel. That is what the Lo gain is sounding like but with way more distortion. Presence and Treble cut did not seem to tame the brilliance of the top end. Reduction in gain helped a bit. If I cannot compensate the treble on the lo gain channel with some Mesa tubes (I do have two SPAX7 tubes to try) I may roll in a long plate Mullard as that has better roll off on the higher frequencies. While I am at it, may stuff in a quad of Mesa STR440 6L6GC (yellows) that I got for the Roadster. The quad of greens ended up in my Mark V, I can also take those out and swap something else like the SED =C= 6L6 or the Preferred series (thetubestore brand which is the same as Doug's tubes Ruby 6L6GCBSTR)

I also have a 6 of the gray color coded EL34s. Two of which were originals that came in the TC-50 and the other 4 have not been used. Most of all I will be patient with the TC-100. I jumped on the TC-50 a bit prematurely for the same reasons and did not like it much at first. Now I love it. Time to change preamp tubes in V3 and V4. The clean channel will remain unchanged as that sounds awesome. I am glad that Mesa stayed with the two isolated preamps, having the clean separate from the high gain channels. Difference between the Hi gain and Lo gain is one preamp gain stage. very much the same as the Royal Atlantic and the Electra Dyne. Unlike a Mark series amp, where all the tubes are cascaded and harder to isolate one tube without affecting some other feature. the TC series is laid out with two primary preamps that each use a pair of tubes. reverb uses one tube and does not share a triode with a gain stage, FXloop is one tube and obviously the PI is one tube. Say you did not like the clean channel for some reason, you can change preamp tubes in V1 and V2 and not effect the hi/lo gain channels. In essence, V1 is the primary stage for the clean, V3 is the primary for the gain channels. In another perspective, the amp has two V1 tubes if you think DR, Roadster, Mark or other amp where V1 has the first gain stage for all channels. If someone says change V1 for a better tone on the Hi /Lo channels they actually mean V3 since this amp is quite different than the ladder style cascaded gain structure of most amps.
 
I currently have a SPAX7 in V1. I think I will swap that with V3 to pull some of the top end off channels 2 and 3. I also asked Mesa if I can specify a color code on the power tubes. I believe mine are grey currently and would like to try some green, yellow or red. I haven't heard back yet, but I am guessing they will tell me I can't specify a color code.
 
I get my Mesa tubes from Sweetwater. I will ask for color codes specifically because that is what I may have in a given amp. They seem to have an issue with GRN and GRY as they look similar at first glance.

TC series, look at tube task chart in manual. V2 and V3 are the tuneable positions for CH2 and CH3. Not sure where the tone stack sits on the preamp. I will find out this evening since I will be pulling the chassis again to tube roll. Should not be too difficult to figure it out. CH2 may have a bright bypass cap on the tone stack. If it is a fender circuit the tone stack would be on V2, Since it is a Brit circuit, (simlar to the CH2 on the Mark V) I would suspect there may be two gain stages in front of the tone stack. Not sure but I will figure it out. Knowing where the tone stack sits would be helpul for change in tubes and what tube should go where. May even try the JAN/Phillips 12AT7 in V5 as it is warmer than the Chinese 12AT7 tube. Also have an RFT 12AT7 I had used in the RA100 as it cut back on some noise I had with the Royal.

Perhaps this is just a power tube phase, why the amp is getting brigher may be due to the two preamp tubes I installed prior or could be the power tubes still disihing out the harshness (these particular tubes are that way, so perhaps I have not gotten past that bright phase yet).
 
After reading the MKV Saturation Mod thread, I tried a JAN/Phillips AT7 in V4 wondering if it would have a similar effect on the TC as it does the MKV. It was awful! But, putting one in V5 or V7 might be worth a shot. I also have a spare SPAX7, so I could load V3 and V4 with those and see if there is a high end roll off in channels 2 and 3. Or maybe a Mullard CV4004 in one or both of those slots would be worth a go, too.

I will be putting the stock tubes back in place for a while. As much as I love the 6V6s, I want to run the stock tubes for a little while before I decide if I want to try to get different color codes.

I, too, have been getting my Mesa tubes from Sweetwater for a while now. Much faster turn around time and the same price if I ordered them from Mesa direct. And then, there's always the little bag of candy to....wait for it.....sweeten the deal. :lol:
 
Yeah, I order from sweet water for the Bit-O-honey pieces. I have already complained when I ordered the JP-2C, there was not bag of candy :cry: LOL.

By no means did the TC-100 sound terrible, just bright. Not brittle or lacking anything. Definitely has plenty of bottom end to spare. The tonal character is a bit different than the TC-50 but generally they are the same. I can get a good tight sounding punch from the lo gain channel on the TC-50 without it sounding thin. So far the TC-50 has been a win since I bonded with it. TC-100 is just a bit different in its response to the tone controls. Still it is explosive in attack and response, bottom end is plenty. This amp will cut through the mix for sure. I have not gotten to the slice and dice part that is described in the manual. Perhaps that is a good thing.

I pulled the chassis out again to tube roll V3 and V4, also tried a few different tubes in the PI. I have tried the SPAX7 (actually have two of them so I tried both at the same time). Odd thing about the SPAX7 as it did provide the similar character on the lo gain channel that I am getting with the TC-50 but made the hi gain channel a bit muddy. A pair of Mullards CV4004, a mix of CV4005 and Mullard long plate 12AX7 (this combo works quite well in the RA100) and then all of the Mesa 12AX7 tubes. As it seems the stock tubes were the winners. I think the issue of the brightness was due to the Mesa tube I installed in the V3 position to replace the one that came in the amp. All is good now. lo gain sounds great and hi gain is great too. Also have to learn that I need to be more conservative on the gain and presence settings. I was going to install a JAN/Phillips in to the 12AT7 position but did not get around to it. Since the signal passed through this circuit all the time a warmer tube may curb some brightness if it gets om my nerves, so far a change in V5 was not needed.

The amp was bright but never got into the Mark V CH3 brittle zone. The TC manual does detail some information regarding higher gain settings and the treble control and its relation to the midrange Q that does overlap the treble a bit. Also the Presence control is not quite your typical presence function. This amp does not use the negative feedback from the speaker to create the presence. It is derived by other means due to the power soak. I was setting that a bit too high too. A little tweaking fo the controls and I was back where I started, impressed. I also compared the Mesa Vertical 212 cab used with the TC-50 to the one I was using with the TC-100. It never dawned on me to realize one was britgher than the other, and it is. The one I am using with the TC-100 was the second cab I bought after the first to use with the JP-2C. Both cabs are close in tone but one does appear a bit brighter than the other. Or perhaps I am looing my hearing to go with it.
 
I did run through my box of preamp tubes to find what works and what does not in the TC-100. When I did this with the TC-50 I did not notice any notable change to the amp. Perhaps that is good as I love the way it sounds. Sure I thought it was bright when I first got it but it has mellowed out since and sounds ideal. However the TC-100 brings more power to the speakers, change in iron on the OT (nearly looks identical to the one on the RA100 but I did not pull the chassis to check numbers on the RA, power transformer is definitely different than the RA so no point in comparing that to the TC-100). After reviewing the manual, did not realize the presence is not pulled from the speaker like it is with most amps. It is basically another tone control probably situated on the return triode section just before the phase inverter or it could be part of the phase inverter circuit (similar to the negative feedback circuit of what a presence control is but it is not a feedback circuit). In essence it is a low pass filter designed to pass the entire guitar frequency and to roll off higher frequencies created by the non linear distortion effects of the triode tube circuits. As expected, the TC-50 is the same.

Tube roll, one the clean channel V1 and V2 did not seem to change much with different tubes. the stock tubes kept the clean channel on the warm side in normal mode with enough chime to be satisfying. Drive it becomes aggressive with a higher gain setting. I actually love it but wanted to experiment. I did that part last as I was more interested in curing the ping and low frequency mud I was getting on CH3. So what I did use were in the Chinese variety. The latest gen of Chinese tubes (those that only have two mica spacers, upper and lower, and do not use the metal clips on the plates) that are generally labeled as 7025 (preferred series) same as the Gold Lion ECC83 or the Ruby 12AX7AC7HG+ or the TAD 7025-s preamp tube. Tried one in V1 and then in both V1 and V2 and the clean channel remained about the same but not quite as warm as the Stock tubes. Much more phonic chime and crisp bold bottom end reminded me of my old Fender Deluxe reverb. That actually sounded good. I also compared that to the old Chinese Mesa tube with the square foil getter (same tube you can get from Doug's tubes indicated as the Beijing 12ax7, actually Doug has it listed as NOS-Chinese 12AX7. I bought some a while back and found they perform the same as the old Mesa tubes I have in my inventory from the Mark III days. If you want more of a Fender chime on the clean channel the Chinese tubes will give you that. Look for the 7025 tube which may be easier to find than the other as those are out of production.

Curing the ping and drying up the mud on CH3: Since both V3 and V4 are related to CH2 and CH3 it was critical to find something that will provide good performance, eliminate the ping and fix the mud. Actually this seemed to be a sudden thing but I did change V2 early on with another Mesa tube as I thought the original was going microphonic. It was not. the ping noise will happen with almost every 12AX7 tube I used in V3 except for one type. I thought the SPAX7 was the fix but actually made the mud on CH3 more of an issue. With some tubes, after the amp has warmed up the ping noise with no signal may eventually go away. After first warm up it is there. The trick to cure the mud on CH3 was to install a brighter tube in V3. Think about it. The gain chain for CH3 is as follows: V3A -> V4A -> V3B -> tone stack -> V4B. that is three gain stages before the tone stack. Mesa branded JJ tubes are quite warm and may over burden the bottom end. Placing a brighter tube or one with more or less balance in V3 will enhance the grind on CH3 and not really effect CH2 too much. V4 sounded best with the stock Mesa tube. Tung Sol may work well in V3 but I found the NOS Chinese 12AX7 or the old Mesa 12AX7A tube to both cure the ping and dampen the bottom end enough that it still remains aggressive and more defined on CH3. Bonus was a bit dryer tone on the Lo gain CH2 so palm muting sounded very much like the TC-50. Open string or unmuted strings it sounds very much the same so it did not thin out CH2 by any means. All I had to change was one tube, V3 and done. Sure I wanted to expore and see what change in PI and a different 12AT7 would sound like.

PI tube swap. I did have one tube to try which was the Sovtech LPS. One would think there is not much to gain from chaning the PI tube. The signal has to pass though it and it does have its associated impedances so yes it will effect tone to some degree but may not be noticable. What will change is volume. the balance Sovteck worked ok. Not really much of a difference. I actually prefered the Mesa tube in the PI position so I kept what was original.

Last tube: FX loop V5. Yes this tube position has an impact on tone more than you would think. Sure the send is derived from a cathode follower circuit and the return needs to be boosted. Either way you look at it, both are gain stages, one is less than unity (hence it reduces signal levels) and the other is like typical common cathode circuit used to boost signal levels. The Mesa (Chinese) 12AT7 tubes are generally very bright. They do the job in V5 quite well and may not be something to consider. I found out with the RA100 a different tube in the FX loop will change the tone enough to be noted. That amp uses the same topography as the TC-50 and TC-100. Change in 12AT7 tube from one brand to another will have different results as each tube has their own set of tone response curves. Chines are considered very bright as well as a few others. https://www.tubedepot.com/tube-comparison-tool (there was another chart comparing the NOS tubes but I cannot find it) First up was the JAN/Phillips 12AT7 whcih offers a rich warm sound with good clarity. That did make the amp sound a bit warmer in overall tone. I did like it but also tried something else sort of middle of the road. NOS RFT ECC81-12AT7, similar warmth but with a bit more edge like the Mesa tube. Now that was an improvment. For the time being, I just pulled antoher new Mesa 12AT7 from its carton and stuffed it in and called it a day. Definately considered the RFT though. Perhaps later on in life I will change.

Power tubes? not yet. I have not had a need or desire to change from the stock tubes. Sure the 6V6 is lurking in the background poking at me but I only have a pair of them. I will order more tubes soon enough. At the moment I am digging the stock power tubes.
 
I finally got around to running the other cabs with the TC-100. Still I prefer the Vertical 212 cab for its tonal characteristic. But there is a surprise that popped up that was very rewarding. I did run the stock OS Recto 412 cab that I have with the gray and black jute grill I had bought a few years ago to complement the RA100. It is a good sounding cab but seems best hooked up to the RA100 than the other amps and not because it is cladded with similar adornments to the RA. Not bad with the Roadster or the JP-2C or even the TC-50, for some reason the TC-100 was begging for more bottom end. I rolled out the old OS Recto 412 loaded with the EV speakers. Now that was impressive. Somewhat bright but yet deep enough to bring out the best on CH2 and CH3. Clean was nice through the EV speaker but I favored the Recto 212 format for the drive mode on the clean channel. Next up was the Egnator traditional sized 412 cab that I loaded a quad of Celestion G12H75 Cream backs. This is where the characteristics became more interesting. That actually sounded great. Now for the surprise, I decided to run the smaller 412 with the cream backs in parallel to the Vertical 212 and that sounded amazing. As it seems, running a 4 ohm total load really made a lasting impression. This amp thrived on more load but a blend of V30 in the 212 and the four cream backs was almost heaven. I may have to roll out the horizontal 212 cab and stack the traditional cab on top of it. I will have to try the stock OSR412 combined with the H212 and see if I get the same results. I would hate to go to the expense of getting another 412 cab just to replace the speakers, but a traditional sized Mesa 412 cab may be something of interest later on.

Considering the response I got with the old Recto 412 loaded with the EVM12L black label speakers has given me reason to swap out two of them in favor of the Organic Timber Rhapsody speaker. A blend of the two speakers may have improved tone character with the other amps as well as the TC-100 since the OTR has more midrange and less top end than the EV black label speaker.

Just for kicks, I tried slaving the TC-50 and vice versa to hear if there is any differences between the preamp circuits. I did this with the Lehle P-split II in the loop of one and ran the isolated output to the return of the other and turned on the FX loop on both amps. There is a bit of difference between the two preamp circuits especially with CH2 and CH3 but it is difficult to notice. Perhaps what it boils down to is the differences between the power supply, OT and number of power tubes. Comparing the TC-50 to the TC-100 set to 50W is not quite identical either. The TC-50 is much louder given the same master volume levels. There is a way to compensate for the difference and that is to raise the master volume on the TC-100. This is also similar to the RA100, at full power using the first position on the power soak it is much lower on output volume than when the amp is switched over to 50W power. One disadvantage with the RA is it sounds best with a V30 speaker or something similar but once you get into a darker sounding speaker arrangement such as an EV or similar type of speaker the amp gets seems to get bottom dominant especially with the clean channel. TC-100 as well as the TC-50 perform quite well with different speakers types and cabs. For some reason I am hooked on the Vertical 212 and the Horizontal cab is just as impressive.
 
Today I received a reply from Mesa in regards to ordering specific color codes.

"Greetings
Thanks for your email. You can certainly request a color code on the comments field of your order, however we may not have all the color codes available and may be weeks before we see the color code you may be requesting in stock again. Color codes are purely for matching purposes only and really have not variance on the tonal aspect of the amp. Below is a little write up on tubes we use and tube biasing for Mesa amps.

We choose the best sounding, best performing and most consistent tubes from the world’s current supply of tubes, test them so that we know they’ll meet the requirements of our amps and sell only the tubes that are the perfect fit for our amps. Our current lineup of tubes are obtained from several different sources.

We fix bias our amps and only sell the tubes that work for our bias setting. It makes it really easy for Mesa owners then to change tubes as wanted or needed, as they know Mesa tubes should allow their amp to perform just as it was designed to. Using MESA tubes, you'll not need to worry about biasing your amp."

Hmm....no variance on the tonal aspect of the amp?
 
They will not be specific on tone variances. All I can do is offer an opinion.

So far I like the Blues in the TC-100 now that I have some time on them. I did try the grays for a short period but went back to the blues. Those also sound great in the TC-50 (did not notice much of a change with the 50W between the greens, grays and blues. There is a list somewhere in here on color codes and what the color means as a cross reference to GT. What does matter to some extent is the plate voltage and idle current of the tubes in the amp. Different power supply and OT will have a different tonal character. TC-50 is not the same as the TC-100 even though they have a common preamp board but assembled differently.
 
I found an older set of yellow color code EL34s that came out of my RK1. I am fairly confident my father (previous owner of the RK1) never used the EL34s in the amp, so I am going to try them out in the TC50. I confirmed my stock tubes were gray color codes, so I can have a true comparison between the 2 sets.
 
I have an old set of reds I pulled out of the RA100 when I bought it (used). The tubes look it as well (used). They still work and I had used them in a pinch when I thought I killed the Mark V (once and for all, :p but it powered back up with those in the sockets, the amp when totally dead with the 6L6 tubes. It was a rectifier tube that shorted out so at least one way to step on the caterpillar is with a bit of patience and do it real slow. (thought that was better than the usual "skin the cat").
 
I had though of an ideal rig with the TC series amps, something of the we/dry/wet using two tc-50 and one tc-100. Sure I could get a 2:50 or 2:90 and be done and save some money in the long run. If I was on the rack I would do so without question. However, there seems to be some merit using two or more amps each having a slight difference or major difference in their tone. Having more than one TC can be ideal as one footswitch can be used to control two or more amps of the same series. I did try out the daisy chaining of the two TC amps. That worked out great, no pedal fest to deal with when changing channels. Also the TC-50 and TC-100 are different in their fundamental tone. Yes they are similar but yet different. Now more to the point of why I will not go the stereo power amp way but does not mean I cannot do so if I am using different amps for the effect. (a note on the ping issue, I called Mesa tech and they want me to send a short video of the occurrence. Will have to do that tonight or over the weekend. At the moment I am a bit reluctant to remove the tubes I installed into V3 and V4 but I am curious if the ping noise is still and issue now that I have more time on the amp. For the rig idea to change into something different may require a midi controller to make it work since the JP-2C does not use the same commands as the TC-100 or TC-50. Bummer. I have discovered my ideal tone using the TC-100 and the JP-2C. :shock: Both amps have similar characteristics but they differ enough to provide a really impressive tone when running in parallel. Not exactly sure how much influence one or the other had since I was relatively close to both when I did the experiment. In a live setting, the amp will influence the guitar either with feedback or may have that enhancement or degradation of harmonics. (Roadster works against you especially in Modern voice on CH3 and CH4). Speed of attack, the TC-100 has a slight edge over the JP-2C but it is frequency dependent. As it seems the bottom end of the JP is pounding at the same time the TC-100 upper range of frequencies are ripping out. The combined effect of both amps is unreal. :shock: This is far more powerful than running the TC-50 with the RA100. I have discovered the tone and grind I am after for my next project. May do a sample recording of the two amps just to see how they record. This may also be the first time to use the cab clone from both and blend that with the mics that I will use on the cabs. I will have to see how the amp switcher will work vs the splitter so I can select which amp is the focal point and to blend the two together. I have no doubt that the TC-100 will cut in the mix as it may even be able to cut thought if one used the TC-100 for lead and the other using the JP-2C. It is not difficult to get the JP-2C into a brighter mode (just pull the presence control and adjust GEQ if needed) May have to couple the TC-100 with the Roadster and see what happens. For now the TC-100 paired up with the JP-2C is Mesa Boogie Heaven. (this is not for you clean style players as my focus for this experiment is for the hard rock to heavy metal style, although a few ACDC riffs sounded really good. I also tried to find the low limit on the gain setting for CH2 that would work with a low gain on the TC-100. Will have to try the clean channel in drive mode with a heavy tone dialed in. I think you can see the settings I used in the image. CH3 and CH2 sound of the TC-100 sounds equally impressive with CH2 or CH3 of the JP-2C. Note: CH2 will be in phase with the JP, CH3 is not. The splitter I am using does have a phase switch is not programmable. I wonder if a splitter or amp selector when using a combined pair has a midi controlled phase function.


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Sorry if this post has turned into a blog on the subject.
The bottom line.... If I had to choose one amp that would be a difficult task. Choosing a top amp or one I like the best would not be fair as this would be a personal preference that may not be the same as yours so no need to influence anyone to go with one amp over the other. ( :roll: :twisted: get the JP-2C , :mrgreen: no, get the TC-100 :twisted: JP! :mrgreen: TC!, dang it just get both 8) :shock: ) However I do have the following: Amps in current production: JP-2C, TC-50, TC-100 and the Mark V. Amps out of production: Royal Atlantic RA100 head and combo, and the Roadster. For starters, since this thread is on the TC-100 I will start with its predecessor the RA100. I will try to keep this related to the TC series in the 100W platform.

RA100 also has the power soak feature but this one is resistive and not reactive. It marks the power soak in dB vs wattage. The reason behind this labeling is straight forward since the RA can be switched from 100W to 50W with the power switch. So you get attenuation and tube saturation for the 100W setting as well as the 50W setting. I will have to compare the RA-100 to the TC-100 just on the power soak function to fine tune my statement. The TC-100 below the 50W setting tends to get a bit grainy or fizzy but that may be the Mesa EL34 tube characteristic. I did not care for the Mesa EL34 in the RA100 for that particular reason. The more you dial in the power soak it begins to sound flat or lacking the openness of the full power setting. Since I am not using the stock tubes in the RA, instead I have the =C= EL34 tubes and those in particular sound exceptional. Using the power soak feature of the RA combined with =C= I do not feel the tone is becoming sterile, quite the opposite. Using that amp with the 50W power is even more rewarding. Another thing about the RA to get more note definition out of the Hi gain channel is preamp tube selection. The amp does tend to saturate with the stock tubes in the preamp (this one uses V1 and V2 for the hi/lo channel). This amp may be more simplistic (and the Electra Dyne is of this formula) than that of the TC series, it is still an amp worth having. I would have an issue letting go of either the RA head or combo as they are unique in their own way.

Now for the TC-50. Why this one could not top the RA: It does actually. It retains a tight composer on all three channels that is more ideal for my style of playing. It did take me a while to understand the differences of what was known (RA) to the new design (TC). Those that already have the TC-50, keep it. It is a great amp to have. I am in debate if I prefer the TC-50 over the TC-100. The obvious difference between the two amps Is all in the power supply and OT section other than the number of power tubes. the TC-50 seems to have a bit more headroom than the TC-100 as well as a more dry and balanced tone. I fail to understand those that claim the TC-50 does not have enough bass. I think it has the right balance and bottom end influence. I have yet to get the TC-50 to sound muddy on any channel. Bottom end remains bold and tight. Compared to its bigger brother the TC-100, CH3 is a bit tricky to dial in as the same tone settings used on the TC-50 do not translate well on the TC-100. I have to dial the bass down or completely out on CH3 with the TC-100. There is a simple fix for this which is the old 1980's Mesa Chinese (Beijing) 12AX7-A tubes. I still have some good one's from my Mark III days when I was replacing preamps with the power tubes every 3 months when I was in a band back then. I think I was better guitar player than I am now as I am relearning how to play the guitar all over again (sometimes with an injury that never healed properly it is hard to do what you used too but I still have all of my fingers, slowly getting back to where I used to be but only better).

Roadster: well I have not compared it to the TC-100 yet. I have done so with the TC-50 in terms of blending the two amps. However, the TC-100 at full power is a beast to behold but needs to be dialed in properly, the same would apply to the Roadster as that too has some tricks that are not immediately apparent. Actually jumping from camp Mark to camp Rectifier was the trick as each amp in that series is quite different from each other in terms of tone setting relationships and how they effect the overall tone and characteristics of the distortion. There is so much you can do with the Roadster (just like the Road King). There is some difficulty balancing the volume levels with the Roadster if one gain channel is set to modern and the other gain channel is set to vintage or raw. Not like the Mark V where CH3 IIC+, IV, and extreme seem to retain relative volume levels between each voice, the Roadster does not. Roadster is also another worthy amp to have but it has its limits as it seems to work against you if you plan on pinching off harmonics. Trick for that is use the Vintage voice on CH3 using 50W power, you can squeeze it out but not like you can with the TC series, RA, JP or Mark V.

The Mark V: I wish this amp would retire as I am eager to see what is next. Perhaps I bought a dud, or lemon. I never had as much trouble loving and amp as much as I hate it. It is not a bad amp mind you, I feel it may not be right for me for some reasons or another. I have played though some Mark V's that were built more recently and did not hear the annoying tone I was getting with the one I bought in 2012. It does have an amazing clean channel ( unfortunately I do not like the tweed voice on this amp as it is super brittle, Roadster does a much better job ). CH2 Crunch and Mark I voices are great, CH3 needs a few changes to get the amp up to snuff with the rest. 12AT7 keeps the brittleness at bay, Removal of C39 does make it brighter but also brings out the midrange that is getting choked off. Perhaps this is not an issue with the latter builds. It is not just the tone that is the problem, what is more so problematic with this amp is the footswitch controller. I no longer use mine as it is prone to issues, Do you know how many cables I have just for the footswitch? Only one should suffice but have gone though 4 of them. Blame it on the circuit used for channel changing. It may be a cool method borrowed from long ago but using a voltage level to set an output on a LED bar graph driver chip may have its issues with stability if there is too much voltage variation or noise on the supply lines. Still this is a cool one chip solution that uses one signal line on the DIN cable. A simple 2-4 line decoder would have worked each output driving an ESD protected MOSFET. Actually I have never had any issues with the Roadster footswitch just with the Mark V. So perhaps the method is better than I think it is. What is more stable and reliable is the midi controller uses in the TC-50, TC-100 and the JP-2C. That also simplifies everything such that you no longer need the multiple jacks on the back of the amp for remote control if not using the footswitch. For some reason, I see the Mark V as a novelty amp more than an extension of your guitar. I am not saying the Mark V is bad, it is a good amp to have but Mesa has much better amps it its lineup than the 90W Mark V.

JP-2C: This amp is my top choice and by far my favorite amp to date. I favor it even over the TC-50 and the TC-100. But there is reason behind that statement. There are some similarities the JP has with all of my other amps. It has taken over for the Roadster as there are no challenges with harmonics, no imaginary dead spots at the 12th fret on the 3rd string (I believe that may be the resonant frequency of the Roadster and the phase relationship may be opposite to the input). I think the only setback on the JP-2C is the low gain levels of CH2 and CH3, very difficult to get a softer clip for vintage style of music. It can be done without external pedals as this is simply a trick you need to learn and that involves your guitar volume control. I almost want to add a switch to my guitar that reduces the output level for the softer clip and to bring out the full potential of the grind without having to touch the amp. Perhaps a volume pedal may do that too as I always wanted one for doing swells vs using the guitar volume pot. JP-2C is organic in its tone, it can be dialed in to provide a very raw character, sinister if that is a better term or rolled back to have a twist on what Classic rock would have sounded like if Marshall never made a guitar amp. Very dynamic and touch sensitive. You do not need to have a toggle switch with each position labeled to represent what the voice of the amp is in each position. Perhaps that is easier to most, flip a switch and it becomes "x" like with the Mark V. Well, in reality it does not sound like "x" it sounds like "y" and that is why I stated the Mark V is more of a novelty. As with any amp there is a learning curve. Even with simple controls like on the Electra Dyne, each control has a unique characteristic that may be quite different on another amp in a different series. I would say the JP-2C is very versatile in its tone and gain characteristics. And those two GEQ, they are very reactive and usable than on the previous Mark series amps including the Mark V (90W) and the Mesa 5BEQ pedal. Now having the TC-100 what am would I pick? that is a tough question to answer. If I were to buy another amp to pair up I think I would get another JP-2C. I almost did just that but wanted to try out the TC-100.

TC-100: In respect to what was already stated in this thread on the TC-100, this amp packs a punch. At full power it is a beast in its own way. For heavy metal I am sure it would be good for that. I did want to see how low I could go with tuning so I dropped down to a C. That sounded cool with the TC-100. I also had to try the 6 string crossover bass (short scale and plays like a standard guitar). Had to dial back the controls as I did not want to over work the amp or speakers too much. You could probably use it as a bass amp if you like your signal distorted. Not recommended though. The tight mode really makes sense for use with alternate tunings or 7 and 8 string guitars. Yeah I can see that being the norm for this amp. As for responsiveness, the amp tends to retain its gain character with rolling off of guitar volume. It does not clean up as well as the JP-2C. That may be a factor of the EL34 vs 6L6 tubes. I have yet to try the 6L6 tubes in the TC-100. That will happen eventually.

If you can afford to get either the TC-50 or the TC-100, I hope you can do so without having to sell or trade in your other amps. Sometimes there may be regret of selling what you had if it was your main amp. I had regrets selling my Mark III more so than selling the Mark IV. I sold eth Mark III not for another amp or music gear, it was because I lost all interest in playing guitar. My left arm injury has basically prevented me from enjoying the guitar let alone the severe pain just picking one up. I did get back into playing as I had made a promise to my late wife I woud continue (she heard me playing the guitar while I was preparing the Mark III for sale) When she died it was the guitar I turned too, also ended up filling a void in my life. Much of the pain is gone and I have gotten back into music with more interest, even started playing bass and the drums. I may not be very good at it but I enjoy it.
 
Go figure, I put the stock tubes back into V3 and V4 and could not get the ping noise. Tried other Mesa tubes and to no avail, no ping. I was asked to send a short video of this occurrence to Mesa tech service. Oh well, amp sound great ping or no ping with the stockers in it. You do not gain much with preamp tube swaps. CH1 sounds best with the stock tubes. CH2 and CH3 seem to tighten up the bass with a change in V4 more so than V3. I was surprised to find a "like new Mesa tube from 1989". It is one of those square foil getter type made in Beijing China. Seems that the mesa tube has a bit more midrange than the one's sold by Doug's tube. You can tell with this type of tube how much use is left in it due to the discoloration between the two mica spacers. They seem to turn black in that area when they get near end of life. Hard to tell by looking at the Mesa branded JJ tubes. When I had removed the preamp tubes from my Mark IV they were 12 years old including the power tubes. I bought that amp in 2000 and did not play much, 4 years later I ripped the tendons in my left elbow and that was the end of playing for me. It still hurts to play after 14 years but I can manage.
 
I brought a TC100 home last Tuesday. I'd post a long review about how much I love this thing, but I'm too busy enjoying the hell out of it to take the time to do much else right now
 
I tried a TC-50 combo near the end of 2017 while amp hunting. Didn’t love it, especially for the money. To me, the Mark V heads (all versions: 25, 35, 90) blew it away.* Better tones all around, and much more versatile.

Last month, I plugged in to one of the new TC-100 heads on a lark and ended up bringing it home with me.

First thing I will say is this amp takes the longest to warm up of any tube amp I’ve ever played, and the contrast in tone between 3 minutes and 30 minutes is similarly wide. It doesn't go from "Hey, that sounds cool" to "Yeah, this rocks!"; it goes from “Oh, that’s nice… I guess.” to “SWEET JESUS MARY AND JOSEPH THIS IS THE WARMEST, CREAMIEST TONE I’VE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE JUST STRIKE ME DOWN NOW LORD SO I CAN DIE HAPPY!”

OK, maybe that’s a tad hyperbolic, but I’ve played through my fair share of tube amps and have never come across such a stark difference in tone between cool and warm (by comparison, the next biggest "sonic jump" is on my Mark V, where it takes about 20 minutes before the bridge pickup on my Strat goes from "tolerable" to "singing"). I don’t know if this is a specific quirk to my amp, the EL34s, a feature of all TC-100s, or what, but it’s really worth noting. Had I been in a hurry and just toyed with the TC-100 for a few minutes, there's no way I would have ended up picking it up.

I am just loving this amp from its gritty, edge-of breakup tones on the LO channel to the hyper-saturated-yet-still-tightly-defined screaming of the HI channel. The HI channel is, well, HI gain. It's not really that complicated, but it's superb at what it does, so it doesn't need to be. LO (which is my favorite) is a bit more finicky. One quirk of the LO channel is that the tone really thins out if you push the master higher while pulling the gain lower. I still haven't figured out if this is a feature or a bug, but there's a surprising (and good) amount of sonic variation you can get just by tweaking the distance between those two knobs. If you are familiar with the Mark V, it's a bit like being able to go all the way from the "Edge" channel to the "Extreme" channel just through the master/gain knobs.

As far as CLEAN goes, I have not been blown away, but it gets the job done admirably -- and to be fair, I have explored that channel the least. Instead of investing time trying to tweak the CLEAN channel, I often find myself migrating toward other amps where I won't have to chase a great clean tone, so I reserve the right to change my opinion on the CLEAN channel in future postings.

Aside from occasionally flipping between DRIVE and NORM, I don't really use the TIGHT/NORM switches. Maybe I should? I've already got a fairly punchy sound that is accentuated by some effects pedals, so it just feels like overkill to go into TIGHT mode on the LO/HI channels.

The multi-soak thingie, I am still figuring out. In general, I've preferred the sound and persona of the amp in 100 watt mode with the global output turned down, but 3 watt mode still sounds fine just above a whisper... and I don't need headphones to play after 10pm without bugging anybody else. So far, it's mostly just 3 or 100 watt mode for home use, and 50 HI/50 LO/100 Clean for balance in rehearsals

My setup is as below. I specialize in blues and hard and/or "alternative" (whatever that means this week) rock, but play everything from (bad) jazz to (bad) progressive metal. If anybody wants to make some suggestions, they'd be welcome! Note: I'm probably one of like 17 people on the entire planet who does NOT like Mesa's V30s (they sound buzzy to me); was a teeny bit heartbroken when I tried out both the horizontal and vertical Rectifier 2x12" cabinets, as everybody told me how great the were. Have loved just about everything with the C90s in them, though.

CABINET:
Boogie Compact 1x12” Thiele Cabinet, C90 (x2)

EFFECTS:
Wampler Ego Compressor
TS808 Tube Screamer (yes, I hate myself for loving it, too. Please don’t yell at me)
MXR 108s 10-band Equalizer (if you don't get blinded by the LEDs, this is a great little tool)
MXR Phase 90
MXR M169 Carbon Copy Analog Delay Pedal

GUITARS:
Fender SSS Am Pro Stratocaster (standard V-Mod pickups)
Reverend Jetstream 390 (think Stratocaster, but with three Reverend P-90 pickups.)
Reverend Double Agent (with Railhammer Hyper Vintage bridge pickup, Reverend P-90 neck pickup)


* I've learned since then that I'm similarly not a huge fan of Mark V combos (35/90), either. Ah well!
 
The TC series may take some time to warm up, It is not the amp exactly as it is more related to the Mesa (EHX) EL34s. Once you get the tubes cooking, the tone does open up quite a bit. The TC series seems to manage the EL34 much better than the other amps I have that can use EL34 (most of those are primarily 6L6 amps).

The trick to the clean channel is higher gain setting. If you keep it low that seems to drag the rest of the channel down with it. The same would apply to the Lo gain and Hi gain channels. The gain setting is similar to a volume control but it is setting the level early to push the cascade level into more distortion but at the same time is setting the overall volume level. The channel volume level sits late in the preamp and follows the tone stack (which is between the last two preamp stages of CH2 and CH3). Clean channel is basically the same as most Mesa amps, also this is accomplished by the clean channel having its own pair of preamp tubes unassociated with the Lo and Hi gain channel. Generally reduce the bass on the clean channel for better performance. Hi/Lo channel I usually boost the bass.

To be honest, I did nto like the TC-50 when I first tried it out at a dealership. Did not like it even after I got it home. Odd, I was not overly impressed with the JP-2C at first and the same would apply to the Roadster. Understanding the relatinship of the tone controls and how to dial in the amp made a difference. The only amp that I liked before I bought it when I tried it out was the Mark V but that did not last very long such that I started disliking it. Where is the beef? Tube rolling just was not satisfying. Now I have modified the amp on purpose just becase I did not like the overall tone of the Mark V. Minor tweaks that made a huge difference that puts it on par with my other amps that I favor the most.

The TC-100 is a bit more saturated compared to the TC-50. The 50 has a dryer tone to it which I do like, especially for palm muting. Plenty of response to harmonics and has some dynamics but the distortion level remains the same (TC-100 included) when you roll off on the guitar volume as it does not clean up as I would expect. Mark V has more dynamic resonse to that, the JP-2C has the most dynamic response in that regard (go from clean to blistering beast just by using the volume control on your guitar which gets you more involved with expression than just playing notes). I used to be one of those set the volume to max and leave it there, now I actually use it.
 
bandit2013 said:
The trick to the clean channel is higher gain setting. If you keep it low that seems to drag the rest of the channel down with it. The same would apply to the Lo gain and Hi gain channels. The gain setting is similar to a volume control but it is setting the level early to push the cascade level into more distortion but at the same time is setting the overall volume level. The channel volume level sits late in the preamp and follows the tone stack (which is between the last two preamp stages of CH2 and CH3). Clean channel is basically the same as most Mesa amps, also this is accomplished by the clean channel having its own pair of preamp tubes unassociated with the Lo and Hi gain channel. Generally reduce the bass on the clean channel for better performance. Hi/Lo channel I usually boost the bass.
Yes, definitely. The LO channel in particular seems much more affected by the gain setting (for overall tone) than just about any other amp I've played, though this applies to all channels. Anybody who's fiddled with enough amps knows that gain can have a big affect on thickness, but here, things really thin out as the gain is reduced. It's not a complaint, as this can be used to create some nice effects (experiment with the soak feature here, too!), but it's something users really need to be aware of as they craft their sound. Before my Eureka moment, I spent way too much time blinking and re-checking the tone knobs on the amp and volume knobs on my guitars as the gain went up and down!

Regarding cleans, keeping what you said in mind, I've gotten the CLEAN channel past "good enough" into what I'd consider "pretty nice" territory. It does take a bit more effort to dial in the good stuff than on LO or HI, and it's a balancing act; with P-90s, I can only push the gain to a few minutes past 10 o'clock without having to dial back the volume knob on my guitar, humbuckers even less. That being said, I'm now only skeptical on the CLEAN channel as far as recording goes. For rehearsals and live performances, I've reached a point where I'm perfectly content with it.

But really, it's about those gains, isn't it? To my ears and with my setup, this snarly pig combines my favorite warm and fat 1970s overdrive with current day ubersaturation, and miraculously... somehow... it manages to avoid sounding like a steaming hot mess. I have no idea what Mesa was going for here, but for me, this simultaneously pleases both my "vintage" and "modern" sensibilities at the same time, which is pretty freakin' remarkable.

My experiences in the past with musical equipment that ventures down the "many things at once" path is that I eventually move on to more specialized tools. So the bloom will most likely fall off at some point. But for now, my only complaint with the TC-100 is that it's causing dust to collect on my other amps.
 
Pongo said:
but here, things really thin out as the gain is reduced.

I think this is more a function of the speakers than the amp.

Through Vintage 30s, reducing gain stiffens the amp until it starts to feel a little dead. I think the V30s are a little too clean/tight for lower gain settings and (IMO) excel with the gain turned up (or the gain turned down and the volume cranked, but either way the amp is providing the majority of the breakup). This "issue" isn't exclusive to the TC... I've had it with every Mesa I've owned through Mesa V30s. I think they're outstanding for high gain, but I also think it's why they never quite nail the low/mid gain sounds some people are looking for.

Put through Greenbacks (G12M-25s) and I can keep rolling the gain back while keeping a full sound. The Greenbacks are looser and add some of their own character/breakup to the mix, so they don't loose all their texture as the amp's distortion in reduced. If you're looking for more authentic low/mid gain tones, these speakers will get you there.

Long story short...

Classic crunch = Greenback

Modern chug = Vintage 30


IMO/YMMV
 

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